Handling un-briefed situations on flight deck

[Nicholas49]

Hope this is the right place for this question.

With the strict SOPs in airlines today, I imagine this situation present itself rarely, but I wondered if someone could shed some light on this question:

When you are in a critical stage of flight where there's little time for discussion between the pilots, if the first officer is PF and did something unexpected/un-briefed etc., what would the captain do? Would he take control of the aircraft or is that a very draconian measure?

I realise it depends on the situation, but I'm interested to know how you would handle this type of situation.

Thanks
Nick

[411A]

Well, since you asked....I would ask the First Officer to follow the designated procedure, not just grab the controls and leave him in the dark.
Example.
For a second engine failure in the L1011 after takeoff, the drill is...
Select flaps 4 below 180 knots.
Select flaps UP above 180 knots and establish a driftdown so as to attain 210 knots, whereupon a positive climb can be established, at most weights (mass, for our European/UK folks).:rolleyes:
The airplane will perform as advertised, provided it is flown properly.
Whom is best to do this...the handling pilot, with guideance from the Captain, if said handling pilot is the First Officer.
IE: don't sell many of these guys short, properly trained, they fly very nicely, thank you.
Having said this, IF said First Officer does not respond properly, other measures need to be undertaken, without undue delay.
IE: give the young guys time to prove themselves in a dire situation.
The Captain is always there to back him (or her) up, if need be.

Use CREW COORDINATION.
Works good, lasts a long time, in my personal experience.

Crew coordination, used long before so-called CRM was even thought of...and it works to perfection, IF used properly.

[Agaricus bisporus]

It probably requires the application of something rather quaintly and archaicly known as "Airmanship".

For the illumination of those who have been brought up in the strict - ie blinkered and rigid SOP culture of some airlines this was a quality that was once, years ago, much prized as being the very essence of every experienced airman - an undefinable ability to asess a situation and make a rapid and informed Professional decision without total and Pavlovian deference to manuals, lists, rule books and rigid pricedures. As this quality took years to acquire - it could not be taught but was rather absorbed over years at a rate that varied with the individual it was disposed of by the grey-faced accountant-gnomes that run our airlines and replaced with rigid rule-based SOPs that can be learned in a few weeks and require little or no thought to apply.

Situations outside the scope of those rigid procedures may well prove problematical to solve without it, yet the accountants have ascertained to their satisfaction that the likelihood of such an occurence is "acceptably" small, and, just like the equally discredited archaic conciets of honesty, integrity, decency, politeness, manners and consideration for others it is deemed too old fashioned and inappropriate for the modern world, and has therfore been cast aside as a laughable irrelevence.

Airmanship, exemplifying as it does individual thought processes and decision making based on Professional experience is therefore subversive, and has been discontinued. It will not be tolerated in any shape or form.

RIP

:ugh:

[411A]

Airmanship, exemplifying as it does individual thought processes and decision making based on Professional experience is therefore subversive, and has been discontinued

Except at certain small companies where it is highly prized, and it is paid extra for...:ok:

[Brian Abraham]

Agaricus, that's a "save" if you don't mind.

[Northbeach]

If we were in a critical stage of flight, for instance a go around, and the First Officer did something unexpected/un-briefed what would I do? As the pilot monitoring I would scrutinize the unfolding situation. If the FO’s actions were merely “different or dumb” then I would have to decide if my interjection at this critical stage of flight was immediately necessary. In many cases it is not and my jumping in may in fact further confuse the situation. I would point out the deviation from SOP and “suggest” a course of action to return the aircraft’s state to the trained profile and watch the FO’s response.

If the FO’s actions are “dangerous” then I would most likely immediately switch to command/obligatory statements: “No, do this……..now”. The next step is to physically take control of the aircraft.

Either way we would be debriefing the event following the completion of the flight. The goal would be to arrive at a consensus as to what happened, why it happened, what should have happened and an agreement as to what will happen next time if we are faced with an identical or very similar set of circumstances and why that would be a better course of action.

Years ago as a new Captain going into an airport surrounded by mountainous terrain we got too close to the traffic ahead of us and the approach became rushed and unstable. I told the FO, Pilot Flying, to “go around”. He thought I was offering the subject of going around up for discussion. He didn’t want to go around. He wanted to press the approach and began to verbally advocate continuing the approach. Before I could clear up the misconception the Tower sent us around. Problem solved we were now going around. Except the “go around” didn’t look anything like the go-around profile that was trained by our airline. This circus was taking place under daylight, good visual weather conditions and we had all the aircraft’s systems operating. I let this spectacle continue up to the point where the go around wasn’t recognizable.

Now let’s change the circumstances and look at a low visibility Category III autoland approach. Under these circumstances down low close to the runway there is virtually no room at all for unexpected/un-briefed. Practically any deviation from SOP would be countered with an immediate command to go around followed by aggressively taking/maintaining physical control of the jet.

Not every deviation or problem is an emergency or crisis demanding immediate intervention. Some do; experience, training, self-critique, discipline and continued education are necessary to correctly diagnose the evolving situation. I wish I could say that I always get all of these situations right, the truth is I don’t. Every day is a learning experience and an opportunity to improve. There is a universe of difference between having the same hour twenty thousand times and twenty thousand hours of experience.

Respectfully,

Northbeach

[Piltdown Man]

When would this critical phase be? In a normal flight, I don't think there is one. In an emergency, you do all you can to make time so there can't be one. It's a matter of not allowing the aircraft to go where your brain hasn't already been before. So long before the situation gets critical you ask for a reason for what's happening or for something to be done about it.

PM