Jobs for a rookie?

[DJ Flyboy]

Hi everyone,

I have a TC cpl and have 220 hrs TT on Cessnas, What should i do to build up more time, should i take up instructor rating? Are there any other avenues?
Should I go in Multi IR? What are the other flying jobs that i can hope to take?
What should be my next step?

Looking forward to your suggestions..

Cheers
Flyboy

[DJ Flyboy]

Cmon..there must be something all you pilots could suggest..please help me out here..

[PosClimb]

Safest bet is with the instructor rating...

But...

The industry is going into a real down turn which means even getting an instructor job is going to be very tough.

If you do your instructor rating, make absolutely sure you do it at a school that has a track record of hiring all their instructors.

Even if you're just sitting around with no students, you're still in the system.

[albertaboy]

go north for spring!

[PappyJ]

There is a world of opportunities out there. The issue is, that you're gonna have to leave the comforts of home to find them.

Some examples:

I flew with an F/O last week who had less than 300 hours total time when he started flying an Airbus!

I know a young fellow from Victoria who recently landed a job flying a Caravan in Africa with only a TC CPL

I know another gent who took a similar job in Africa and is now flying a jet for the same outfit. Again, with a TC CPL.

China is desperate for pilots! Get a type-rating and the doors will open.

Not long ago I saw instructor positions advertised in both Japan and Korea. Both offered consideration with their respective airlines after a period of service.

Several low-cost airlines are offering positions (Self Sponsored) on both Airbus and Boeing's (Tiger Airways, Air Asia, Easy jet, Ryan Air and host of others)

And of course, I'm pretty sure that Buffalo Joe; the Falseness's and all the others will soon be gearing up for the season.

..there must be something all you pilots could suggest... Done!

[cyrilroy21]

@pappy

Can you please name the outfit you mentioned and also their contact details ?

[albertaboy]

"you're gonna have to leave the comforts of home"

This is bang on! I can't say how important it is. If you want to get on with your career, you will have to suck it up, pack your life up into that shi#%y car of yours, hit the road and make things happen. Instructing (imho) is the easy way to get hours, but are they really the ones you want? You will be great at making radio calls, telling people to watch their airspeeds, and keeping that right seat warm. I am already surpassing my intructors in experience (and hours soon enough)who taught me from my first solo after only a year in the bush. Nothing against you intructors out there, just my views;)
From the outsider's prospective, I have been lucky to get a job flying, but I think sometimes you have to make your own luck. It is no coincidance I have upgraded my position from rampie to SE pilot to ME pilot while changing numerous companies (due to better oppritunities). It is simply hard work, a good attitude, and being in the right place at the right time. I garuntee you if I stayed at home, I'd still be paying to fly and surfing forums looking for the answer.
Get out there and take control of your future.

At my company, if we had someone show up, show some initiative and stick around for a few days, they would be hired to the ramp for sure. No, I won't give the name or town (that would make it too easy!), but I'm sure there are many other operators out there who are the same.

So.... , sorry for that crazy rant, but I see this question so often I had to let loose a little. Bottom line is, if you are comfortable right now, sipping a beer in your parents beautiful house, your not trying hard enough!!! You'll be on the right track when a peice of plywood on some empty boxes is your kitchen table.

Sincerely, I wish you Good Luck.

Ok, my rant is done!

[flyprototype]

China is desperate for pilots! Get a type-rating and the doors will open

ahahahahahahahahahahahahah!

many pilots believe with a T/R will get a job !it's NOT TRUE!

[PappyJ]

China is desperate for pilots! Get a type-rating and the doors will open YES THEY WILL. I watch it happen regularly!


Can you please name the outfit you mentioned and also their contact details ? Not everything can be handed to you on that silver platter. You need to start doing some research and knocking on doors.



Albertaboy got it exactly right, Get out there and take control of your future.
:ok:


As an FYI.... A one minute browse of this forum(pprune), yielded the following information.....


There are jobs available but you have to move from your home somewhere else.
For example Jet Airways, Vietnam Airlines, Libyan Airways, MAS Swing and new company is opening in Indonesia. There are a rumors that one company from Gulf will buy ATR-s. So move your a.. and apply.

[extreme P]

Quote:
China is desperate for pilots! Get a type-rating and the doors will open

YES THEY WILL. I watch it happen regularly!

Care to provide an example or two? A contract looking for a bare type rating with zero time on type is a rarity.

There are jobs available but you have to move from your home somewhere else.
For example Jet Airways, Vietnam Airlines, Libyan Airways, MAS Swing and new company is opening in Indonesia. There are a rumors that one company from Gulf will buy ATR-s. So move your a.. and apply.

Jet, experienced jet drivers need only apply. Vietnam, two years experience on type. Malaysian, Malaysia citizen only. Not sure I'd pack up and move out based on a rumour about a new start up.

[PappyJ]

I am quite aware, but also have first hand knowledge to the contrary. I'll provide ONE example (there are many).

VNA recently hired two foreign pilots with NO time on type. One, a European with NO time on type what-so-ever. He bought a type-rating for the A320 and is currently operating as an F/O. He contacted the company directly and worked out a two year deal with them himself.

The second is a woman from Canada with NO time on type. She also contacted the company directly and is currently operating the F70 as an F/O. Both had minimal experience and CPL's only.


Same shi+ happens in China, India, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc, etc, etc.

I have been over here for a long time (If you just finished a CPL, maybe since before you were born), and what I'm telling you comes from EXPERIENCE, not from a casual read of a website from the comforts of Mommy and Daddy's expensive house!

[extreme P]

Appreciate the feedback pappyj. Still the exception rather than the norm though.

Currently I hold three ATPL/ATP's and I am typed on the B737, B757, B767, B777, and A330. Never had a cushy house from mom and dad so I guess I made my own luck?

[PappyJ]

The difference between the Exceptions and the Norm, is a matter of motivation!

B737, B757, B767, B777, and A330 Glad to see that you gave up the habit. ;)

[PosClimb]

India... low houred foreigners... not in a million years. There are thousands of unemployed Indians CPLs trying to get in. India's trying to get rid of the expats, and once the experience level is there, the expat Capt's will be gone.

Asia... generally only high time expat Captains... KAL hires some FO's but they want 1000 hours plus time on type.

China... if you're Chinese and speak Chinese, FO slots are probably available.

Malaysia.... are you a citizen with work rights?

Europe... do you have EU work rights?

Same with almost any country...

[albertaboy]

PosClimbIndia... low houred foreigners... not in a million years. There are thousands of unemployed Indians CPLs trying to get in. India's trying to get rid of the expats, and once the experience level is there, the expat Capt's will be gone.

Asia... generally only high time expat Captains... KAL hires some FO's but they want 1000 hours plus time on type.

China... if you're Chinese and speak Chinese, FO slots are probably available.

Malaysia.... are you a citizen with work rights?

Europe... do you have EU work rights?




By this reasoning there are no jobs in the world to be found!! I have noticed two types of attitudes since I started flying. Some people see all the road blocks and others see those tiny cracks to get through them. All the people I went to school with who told me all the reasons we wern't going to get work have fulfilled there own prophecy. On the flip, all of us (very few) who refused to submit to the average employment trends have excelled since school. It is all prospective.

[PosClimb]

By this reasoning there are no jobs in the world to be found!! I have noticed two types of attitudes since I started flying. Some people see all the road blocks and others see those tiny cracks to get through them. All the people I went to school with who told me all the reasons we wern't going to get work have fulfilled there own prophecy. On the flip, all of us (very few) who refused to submit to the average employment trends have excelled since school. It is all prospective.

Did I say there are no jobs available? I said getting a job outside your home area as a low hour pilot is generally next to impossible due to immigration and visa rules.

Your positive attitude is not strong enough to bend immigration laws I'm afraid.

I consider it irresponsible when some training organizations fill their students (and prospective students heads) with sh*t about "China's going to need thousands of pilots" or whatever.

That might be meaningful if your Chinese, but it's generally meaningless if if you're not Chinese.

Most countries prefer to hire locals for the entry level position slots because ultimately they want to get rid of the expats someday.

Low hour pilots should focus their time and energies on getting jobs they have a chance to actually find position. In Canada, that means either ramp or instructing.

[frozencoldpilot]

There's no trick, just send out resumes and do some follow-up calls. I got a job and now I hate the north. It pretty close to absolute Zero here.

[aphelio]

after sending hundreds of cv´s and no reply, I am going to knock personally door by door, for beaver, otter, caravan, ferry, whatever....

any, kind :), suggestion for low hour pilot? east of west? any region with more chances??

[ea340]

For what its worth friend of mine 22 with 300 hours multi Ifr has an interview with Cathy in April in Vancouver

[aphelio]

thanks ea340!!, i´m even lower hours than that :}, need to build up time...:confused:

[ea340]

Actually they are also taking cadets with no time check fragrant harbour wannabes :ok:. You might have to learn to fly all over again in Ozz

[aphelio]

:}, thanks!
anyhow they ask for Canadian passport, logically.
I think I´d need to rip my ass-skin off in a cessna seat.... great!!! i love it!!!:ok::}:}

[Bushed]

Aphelio,

Knocking on doors is still the best way to get your foot in the door with most float operations. No one will start you out on a DHC-2/3 or Caravan so check out operators with C-180/185's, Super Cubs or smaller in their fleet. Even then, you may be in store for a summer (or two) on the dock with hopefully, a check out towards the end of the season and maybe flying some camp checks or overloads to satisfy insurance requirements before carrying paying customers.

It's tough but not impossible to get your foot in the door. If you're persistent and able to maintain your optimism, somebody will give you your shot. Best of luck! :ok:

[aphelio]

thanks Bushed, for the motivation!!!!:)
anybody with such current experience arround, dim-iluminate the narrow path...?:}

[avmaniac]

Hi, I have been reading these posts for about a year but never really felt the need to contribute. Well do be honest I admit I don't know much and not the rambling kind of guy!. I just got my first job pretty fresh off my CPL and will go right seat into an Otter. I did most of my training on a floatplane and that's why I got the job. I wanted to share this as I didn't know that I could do licenses on a floatplane until my Dad did the research and found that you could but that most schools don't do it. Well this made all the difference for me.I wouldn't have got the job otherwise!

Thought you guys would find this interesting about the aviation job market and training . I got this article via e-mail from the school that does a newsletter. But there's some good information you may find interesting. I do agree that there are more bush jobs right now then last year. Oh and if you go to the link, they have a contest where you can win a pilot watch.

http://www.air-hart.com/userfiles/Aviation%20Newsletter%20Feb%202010.pdf

Good luck to all of you. I start my job in April and I am quite excited.

[avmaniac]

Bushed is right. Sending off resumes and hoping for a responses is not the way to go. Do a road trip and knock on doors make sure you have the qualifications - I landed a job that way. As for insurance, it's a bit of a catch 22 and why I took most of my license on a floatplane. You need to have at least a rating but even now that won't help you with some of the smaller operators

[aphelio]

thanks for the info, avmaniac!!!
that´s what´s planned to do. still need to convert my JAA to the canadian...at least the PPL:}.
sometimes i think it´s kind a suicidal mission...:bored:

anybody who had to do this conversion ( I already check the thread to convert FAA to canadian, and I guess would be similar..)

[frozencoldpilot]

For what its worth friend of mine 22 with 300 hours multi Ifr has an interview with Cathy in April in Vancouver

is this the cadet programme?

[JTrain]

Almost certainly.

The Fragrant Harbor wannabees section has some interesting perspectives on the Cathay Cadet program. Basically they trade off expat benefits for Cathay paying for their flying and the job. They'll always be on local terms with CX. Some people have run the numbers over a career, and its heavily slanted towards Cathay's benefit.

[lacmegantic]

Guys,the sooner you realize that flying in Canada is horrible the better!! 703/704 outfits are the dregs of worldwide aviation...no pay,terrible scheds and unsafe planes.The worst, most of the time is the management who push you to break all the rules in order to be "operational" and then falsify the numbers at the end of the day in order to comply with TC,who doesn't seem to care anyway.

This is Canadian aviation...3000+ hrs to fly a kingair,2000+ for a Navajo...Really? I know guys in Asia that got right seat in an Airbus with under 1000 hrs,making twice the money of any 703/704 captain.I love Canada,but if you want to fly and earn more than working behind the counter at Tim Horton's...Canada is not the place to be.

[ea340]

It appears to be a version of the cadet program he will find out in April.

[aphelio]

his is Canadian aviation...3000+ hrs to fly a kingair,2000+ for a Navajo...Really? I know guys in Asia that got right seat in an Airbus with under 1000 hrs,making twice the money of any 703/704 captain.I love Canada,but if you want to fly and earn more than working behind the counter at Tim Horton's...Canada is not the place to be.

Those daddy´s :mad: children, with paid HT are the ones who help dumping the aviation market, and now humble no-a-cent money pilots need to tear our soles worldwide leaving behind life, family, etc.

anyway...market is the same everywhere, but I believe canadian aviation will be the first recovering :ok:

[lacmegantic]

Yeah let's hope the market recovers as quickly as possible for all of us...but you missed my point concerning Canadian aviation.If you have under 5000 or so hours TT,the only aircrafts you can hope to fly are light twin props which comes,of course with very little pay and very bad working conditions.I'm only comparing this to almost everywhere else in the world where you get on a jet with much better pay and conditions with MUCH less time.

I've flown out of the country,came back and tried to make it happen in Canada for two years.I've realized that aviation in canada will not change,so I'm leaving again and sadly will not come back.

Best of luck to everyone!:ok:

[aphelio]

yeah, I got your point, lacmegantic..and I am sorry you need to emigrate again..:bored:
I don´t mind to peel my ass in small planes..i love aviation, no matter which kind...better conditions will came...one day.

Market is destroyed worlwide, but i heard in Canada it´ll recover quicker, and aviation is not only for leisure or turism mainly..at least i´ll try!!:ok:
thanks for the info, and best of luck!!!

[MidgetBoy]

Sorry to break it to you but if you do enough research you'll find out that the aviation dream that was long lost, is even harder to reach now.
Working as a pilot with at least one other job will barely keep you afloat.
I'd love to get back into the industry as well, but it doesn't seem like it will ever happen.

[aphelio]

Well, that´s going on worlwide.
Anyhow and fortunately that won´t last forever, the economy´s got cycles, this is a down one, and later will came a high one...and later a down one...that´s life and reality, only this one is lower that the earlier ones. We´ll recover.
The thing is that there are countries, like mine, with nuts politicians, that screw our country even in crisis, that will last many years to head up this downturn.
That´s why, Canada, led by much more smart politicians I believe it will get out this mud pool.

I still don´t know which part to head too, if east or west, north or central. By the scarse info that I got, I will bet for BC. we´ll see..:ok:

[MidgetBoy]

Yeah, all around the world, except when Canada recovers, it won't be anywhere still.

[albertaboy]

I wouldn't count on anything in BC if I were you IMHO. First, people like to stay in BC, hence slower movement, and second, you will probably fall victim to the Oil companies "Contrail" requirements. Basically you may get a couple thousand hours right seat and get stuck there, not even being close to meeting the requirements for Captain. I know a couple thousand hours of anything sounds amazing right now, but in the long run, getting some PIC is setting yourself up for the future. I would try the Territories, Sask, Man and NW Ontario. I hope that narrows it down for you:) LOL

[aphelio]

thanks so much, albertaboy,
it narrows it, indeed!
soon I´ll be packing my things.
As well, I was thinking to take the float rating, not much people have it here, back home and i´d be a leverage, i hope...:rolleyes:.i´ve seen arround 2000 dollars...it´s that around the average price??
I believe i don´t need to have the canadian-CPL to attach it, do I?with validating my PPL it´ll be enough..

cheers!

[aphelio]

and....what about ferry pilot job??

too much requirements? (as I saw...:bored:) society, too close?...
any approach?!

thanks folks!!!!:ok: