Food for thought: Amazon Kindle DX for pilots

[STBYRUD]

When browsing my local amazon web site a couple of days ago I noticed that they are now shipping the Kindle DX (the famed ebook reader) worldwide - and since it now has full fledged pdf support I wondered if it would be of any use for us flight crew. The screen is now about A5 size (so it matches most OM hard copies)... How neat would it be to carry all company OMs, ICAO and JAA (pardon: EASA) docs in your flight kit? So - I was wondering if anyone was already using one for this purpose... What are your thoughts on this? My company doesn't and probably will not use a class 2 or 3 EFB anytime soon (which would essentially allow you to do the same), so I am quite tempted to give this a shot.

[ab33t]

Thats a super cool idea, need to look into that

[FE Hoppy]

Certification?
You're essentially using it as an EFB so you need a quality system to guarantee the validity of it's contents.

[STBYRUD]

Does your company laptop need to be certified in order to display your company manuals? Of course it can't replace the hard copy on board the aircraft or a full blown EFB, but for quick reference I recon it could be perfect!

[FE Hoppy]

How are your company manuals distributed? I guess there is a process included in your company QMS so yes there is a level of quality control. However as you have now stated it would not replace any manuals then fill your boots but don't use it for any operational tasks without prior approval :ok:

[STBYRUD]

Our manuals are usually distributed via a propietary system directly onto our company laptops, though they are also available as pdfs from our intranet. I suppose it would be great to solve those cruise flight discussions between captain and fo which usually end in "look it up, tell me tomorrow" :D

[Genghis the Engineer]

I own a Sony Reader Touch, which is an competitor to the Kindle. It is around that size and quite happy to handle documents such as approach plates as pdfs (or manuals as MS Word files). It also lacks the keyboard (which I doubt you'd want), doesn't have any form of RF capability - which would make me much happier in a cockpit, and doesn't have any remote capability for Amazon (or anybody else) to modify or delete documents on it.

I have used it in flight for taking notes - it fits into an A5 kneeboard happily enough (or, just, into a suit inside jacket pocket), is easy to read in most light conditions, and (so far) very reliable. The ability to "write" onto printed documents and turn your handwritten notes on and off may well be useful in the air. PDFs do want to be A5ish or they're a pain, and opposite to conventional screens, the more light the better - so in bright sunlight it's superb, but at night it's fairly useless. I don't think that any of the current generation eBook readers have backlights (but then again, there's cockpit lighting and the backup torch).

So, I think that the OP's points are good ones, but personally I don't think that the Kindle is the eBook reader I'd look at first.

Both of course also have the huge advantage of taking loads of reading matter for those weeks away when you need to find something to do with your evenings that doesn't actually carry risk liver (or other physiological!) damage! My Sony (with a 2Gb SD card in the expansion slot) is currently carrying about 50 novels, a manual on test flying the size of a telephone directory, and about a dozen scientific papers - diagrams and all. It's nowhere near full. It charges on a USB socket, but only needs charging about once a week of substantial use.

The technology is definitely good! Details on the Sony are here (http://www.sony.co.uk/product/rd-reader-ebook/prs-600); I got mine for £220 a couple of months before Christmas from the WH Smiths website (a large UK chain of bookshops). And no, I don't have any shares in Sony, I'm just very impressed with it.

G

[FEHERTO]

I am a consultant for several airlines and business jet operators. We have discussed this questions more than 18 months ago.

We have now with one operator several manuals transfered to E-Book Reader (Sony 505, already the Kindle) and are very happy. Pilots like it, no technical problems, long battery life, easy to update, good readable in the cockpit.

We have a workshop next week, where most likely some of my other customers are changign over also.

Our local authority gave a simple "Go Ahead", when we showed three things:
1. No electrical interference (we have disabled any wireless functions).
2. Data protection (USB connection secured).
3. Backup battery must be reachable.

I just can recommend to everybody to look on it.

[FE Hoppy]

I am a consultant for several airlines and business jet operators. We have discussed this questions more than 18 months ago.

We have now with one operator several manuals transfered to E-Book Reader (Sony 505, already the Kindle) and are very happy. Pilots like it, no technical problems, long battery life, easy to update, good readable in the cockpit.

We have a workshop next week, where most likely some of my other customers are changign over also.

Our local authority gave a simple "Go Ahead", when we showed three things:
1. No electrical interference (we have disabled any wireless functions).
2. Data protection (USB connection secured).
3. Backup battery must be reachable.

I just can recommend to everybody to look on it.

Thank you for sharing. Very Interesting information :ok:

[VinRouge]

How do you find the PDF quality for Diagrams and the like? Biggest turn off at the moment is the less than full support for PDF.

PDF and the Sony Reader PRS500 AFmag.net (http://hightech.afmag.net/pdf-and-the-sony-reader.html)

[casio man]

E-readers are about to be the next big thing, IMHO. It has been around for awhile, but till now, the technology was still in the refinement process.

Perhaps something like "Plastic Logic Reader" an e-reader which screen is made from plastic, that will offer robust flightdeck usage would be the future direction in terms of screen technology.

It seems that other manufactures are also joining in, Samsung and HP for instance has made some announcements recently on their own versions of e-readers. I expect the price for the hardware to decrease and that will bring more new adopters into the game. This would in turn increase and ease the availability of the reading material.

And I would definitely use this for inflight manual 'discussions' while at the same time, it will be great company during the layovers. My company issues CD updates of the manuals every month in PDF format, so it will mean some copy pasting is required. While it is available on the EFB onboard, the ability to jot down notes or draw explaination diagrams on the e-reader would be great.

Looking forward to it!:ok:

[lederhosen]

I have been doing this for the last nine months and am extremely happy with the the Sony Reader. It is great to have the whole library with you, particularly for those moments in the hotel when you cannnot sleep ;).

The only downside is that diagrams do not work well (particularly Jepp Charts).

[dusk2dawn]

Great! Anyone with a reference to EASAs requirements for handheld electronic devices?

Genghis, does your Sony-thingy have sort of a flight-mode permitting it to be turned on during the entire flight?

[Rainboe]

The screen is too small for the Sony Reader. The big 10 inch (about 24 cms) Kindle looks a lot better and a piece of kit worth consideration! PDF manuals are a total pain to read if you cannot display the whole page in its entirety AND adequately see it to read it easily. Half a page at a time is hopeless.

[STBYRUD]

Thats why I brought up the new Kindle specifically, 9.7 inches diagonally make it A5 sized, so the same size the hard copies usually come in. Just looked it up, the wireless functionality can be turned off from the main menu apparently...

[skylimey]

The latest software upgrades to even the smaller Kindle support PDF... BUT you can't zoom in to the page, and so diagrams and smaller text are unreadable.

[FlightDetent]

So let's say I have a login for online Jepp Plates (through Jeppesens "e-link") how difficult would it be to transfer them onto the Kindle DX? Edit: Seems like "printing" every chart as a pdf would be way too much work! Technically I have no clue but having been closely involved with talks to our local Jepp representative, there are some copyright and service level isuess to be addressed.

Yours,
FD (the un-real)

[supermoix]

I have two EFB's in my aircraft, and I find more useful and practical to load into my Sony Ereader my DEP, ARR and ALT approach plates in pdf format and use it day in day out 99% of the time. It is lighter, no cables hanging around, loooong battery life and fits in my flight case for review in the hotel in case the flight destination is unfamiliar.


It is the place where i keep all my flight manuals, perf tables and all the stuff i can imagine in pdf and other formats, only handicap is that is not backlighted, that would have made it perfect.

[STBYRUD]

Right, I've heard enough - ordered mine today, expect a thorough report once I receive it! Thanks folks :ok:

[Pugilistic Animus]

well, I'm gonna stay off this bus, sorry thought, it was something else

[Genghis the Engineer]

Great! Anyone with a reference to EASAs requirements for handheld electronic devices?

Genghis, does your Sony-thingy have sort of a flight-mode permitting it to be turned on during the entire flight?

It has no capability for wireless communication, so that shouldn't be a problem.

If anybody gets anal about it, there's a single on-off switch, and it doesn't change anything about the display or mode whilst switched off, and only takes a couple of seconds.

I admit that I wouldn't mind a slightly larger screen, so would quite like to have a play with the new big-screen kindle.

PDFs are usually fine, it has a reasonable greyscale and good resolution: I often use it for reading scentific papers, which can be quite hard on anything. The biggest headache is that the zoom can be a bit clunky, so if the pdfs are A5ish for A5ish content it's fine, but if they're A5 in the middle of a page of A4 then whilst you can read them, it becomes really quite irritating.

G

[Test Eagle]

If you are considering an eReader which will work with your Jepp plates, and is apparently easy to update, then you might want to look at the SolidFX FX10 portable electronic chart reader, which uses specialised software to display Jepp e plates.

It is based on the iRex DR1000S digital reader, and has pretty well all the same capabilities, as the other readers. It is slightly bigger, and is quite expensive :eek:compared to the other models already mentioned. Presumably, the additional cost is for the specialised software added to handle the Jepp e plates.

[Superpilot]

For anyone with JeppView on their PCs wishing to convert to pdf.... Download a (free) piece of software called CutePDF. Then "print" your charts to the virtual printer object that it creates. The result is: beautiful looking pdf files on your desktop which you can then drag and drop onto your eReaders.

[swish266]

Airbus will get rid of paperwork by the end of 2011. After - companies will keep a master paper copy of their FCOMs only if they wish and at a premium.
This thread is spot on.
I gave my wife a BBook and she already has 100s of books on it. The idea of the "electronic ink" is great for books but not for diagrams. Not enough resolution.
Let's wait and see what Airbus and Boeing will come up with!
For the time being I put up with my iPhone PDF reader...

[Miserlou]

I have all my docs on my iPhone with a searchable PDF Reader which works perfectly.

Approach plates are carried on board so I don't have to break my back with them. The other docs are onboard too but less accessible.