View Full Version : Shell Fires pilots
Inspector Sherman
6th Jan 2010, 13:25
Heard today that two pilots flying Executive Committee for Royal Dutch Shell were recently suspended because they challenged the operating procedures. Seems Shell is happy to impose standards for their contractors but less happy to follow strict standards themselves. They use Part 145 for maintenance but refuse to adopt EU OPS for the ops side. Now the battle goes to Court in the Netherlands as one pilot has filed a lawsuit. Not good....SAI already lost a case of constructive dismissal with one of their advisors recently. So much for the ''positive safety culture' that the SAI MD preaches throughout the industry...... Double standards as usual...
As normal do what I say not what I do
Stratocaster
6th Jan 2010, 20:30
Sorry, I don't get it. Why should they adopt EU-OPS? They have an AOC?
shawn.barker
6th Jan 2010, 22:35
I have seen similar situations at another large oil company. Holding contractors to a high standard while picking and choosing what they adhere to as it suits them within the company department.:ugh:
FlyTCI
7th Jan 2010, 02:12
I have first hand experience with Shell of what Sherman wrote. I flew a contract (luckily only for two weeks) for Shell and can only agree, they are extremely anal and demanding regarding the expectation on contractors and can be very difficult to work for. As far as their own oil exploration operation I was less than impressed to say the least. I'm all for safety but they went so far making it almost impractical flying for them. Luckily I "missed" their audit of this particular operation :).
Oil companies in general are tough on safety, but Shell takes the cake.
Holyman
7th Jan 2010, 07:07
Heared they are a very safe outfit as well. Surprises me big time why not adopt to EU OPS, are the Shell executives happy to fly with fatigued pilots?
The ISBAO working rules are very different from the EU rules for work and rest times.
AAztec
7th Jan 2010, 09:14
Wrong facts and all nonsense!
...are the Shell executives happy to fly with fatigued pilots?
How do you know that they are somehow 'fatigued'?
Specifically.:rolleyes:
CaptainProp
7th Jan 2010, 09:57
AAztec - Why don't you give us the facts then?
CP
con-pilot
7th Jan 2010, 19:53
Why doesn't anybody give us some facts. Like what was the reason they were fired?
That would help for a start.
Rusty Trombone
7th Jan 2010, 20:57
Having worked for the other Major in europe I can only state that standards throughout the Oil industry are paramount and fed down to the flight department, transportation department.
I think its too easy to make judgement on this one, as far as I know Shell operate to high standards and very rarely use contract crews, this is to keep all the SOP standard etc.
If some one has been terminated its a very personal thing and I dont think PPrune is the way to publicise this, we are all in difficult times in the industry.
doubleu-anker
8th Jan 2010, 01:28
If this outfit is not operating to public transport rules then it begs the question, Why not? If the operation is so good and proper with "hand picked" crews, decent maintenance etc., it should just be a formality should it not?
It is a question of money IMHO. If they are out to save so much money, then where else are they "saving" money?
Years ago I was part of a team that helped set up an operation for a large MNC and the first thing the accountants asked us, when they got involved, was this. "How can we save money, in this department?" I shot back and asked them, who in this company knows anything about the safe operation of an aircraft? When no answer was forthcoming I politely tried to get across, the question should have been this. "We know nothing about operating an aircraft safely, so what can we do to assist you?" Hell would freeze over before they asked that, believe me.
NuName
8th Jan 2010, 03:46
The two most provacative posts here are by 1st posters, food for thought?
FLEXJET
8th Jan 2010, 08:57
Is it true they flew to Iraq with one of their Falcons when they won the Majnoon Oil field bid last December?
500 above
8th Jan 2010, 09:51
Flexjet,
Dont you think the above comment is a little harsh? Not all of us are fortunate enough to operate only from 'civilisation'...
Why would flying to Iraq make them cowboy pilots?
What about UN pilots? Are they all cowboys too?
Regards
FLEXJET
8th Jan 2010, 10:32
This is a country under war, with thousands of people killed every year.
I consider this country as not safe for civil operations.
Soldiers have no choice, they are sent there or not. As for UN pilots, I don't know their status but I don't imagine they expect to fly to the Maldives or Mauritius on a regular basis...
Went into Sulaymaniyah ORSU earlier this year. Insurers were happy to cover it with no additional premium (was in and out in a day, crews staying in the airport), Crew were happy to do it (See previous)), handing agent was very good.
We had more problems with Pakistan two months ago.
absolute zero
8th Jan 2010, 13:05
Well that's official then - My operation is full of Cowboys !! We go to all the nice places Iraq, Chad, Guinea - anywhere the Company feels it can safely make money and pay for the all it's cowboys !!
Off course we don't bother with insurance,security, Embassy advice etc etc we just get in "light the fires" and off we jolly well go !! We don't go to great lengths to make sure it's safe - No according to FLEXJET we're just - a bunch cowboys !!
Anyway what has this got to do with Shell releasing Pilots ?
What a t.....r :ugh:
NuName
8th Jan 2010, 15:45
Hear hear Zero, I have to go to many places I would prefer not to, oh for one of those cream puff jobs.
Stupidbutsaveable
8th Jan 2010, 16:09
@FlexJet
Please tell us you didn't mean it to come out like that....
Now where are my spurs?
FLEXJET
10th Jan 2010, 12:28
Hello Absolute Zero,
AIUK : Nigeria: New Amnesty report exposes human rights abuses by Shell and other oil companies (http://www.amnesty.org.uk/news_details.asp?NewsID=18292)
http://www.iraqoccupationfocus.org.uk/resources/shell_factsheet.pdf
Hands off Iraqi oil (http://www.handsoffiraqioil.org/)
What is so attractive at Shell? Maybe it's the best kept business aviation secret?
PM accepted then.
Best regards, and safe flying!
FLEXJET
B200Drvr
10th Jan 2010, 13:19
Flexjet.
Calling the pilots "cowboys" shows your complete and utter ignorance. We fly to Pakistan, Iraq, Sudan and various other destinations that are less than 5 star, but that is because our principle requires us to go there. We do all the necessary planning and preparation, hardly a cowboy operation. I also flew extended contracts in Afghanistan and Colombia, that must really make me a cowboy.
jungle drums
10th Jan 2010, 20:37
I imagine that it wasn't something that was done lightly - employment laws in NL would be tough to deal with.
Were the ones selected for departure NL based or from the UK, (or for that matter are there any of the Shell UK 'magnificent seven' left? - Not my quote by the way - UK handling staff called them that.....with a wry smile! Maybe a hangover from when Bader was in charge.)
Mind you they could have just been ruthless and called on the secret handshake society to deal with the miscreants instead.......
212man
11th Jan 2010, 02:53
Flexjet,
you seem quite happy to earn your living burning Jet A-1, but you have some serious issues with those that provide the stuff for you! It's a fact of life that most oil comes from places that are not in most tourist guides, but those that make their living exploring and producing the stuff don't have the luxury of only choosing 'non-cowboy' countries to work in.
If this outfit is not operating to public transport rules then it begs the question, Why not?
Maybe that would be becasue they are not a public transport operation! That's not to say that their standards are any less, and are probably more stringent. I know their rotary standards they require of contractors are more stringent than OPS-3.
MungoP
11th Jan 2010, 12:00
FLEXJET.. your classing of pilots operating in more difficult areas as 'cow-boys' is not only wide of the mark but downright insulting.
We have to assess for ourselves the level of caution and operating safety levels to ensure that will enable us to carry out the desired tasks while remaining on the safe side of the margins... that adds another dimension to our flight ops. We consider ourselves very professional and a logbook detailing 10 years or more of operating under sometimes extreme conditions should constitute evidence of a very healthy approach to aviation safety.
jetopa
14th Jan 2010, 06:08
Bravo, MungoP! You got this one right..
Many of us business jet pilots may be called 'whores' because they'd fly for whomever and wherever to make a living, and I am no exception. Many years ago my (European) employer sent me on the road to various destinations in western Africa with this charming lad who turned out to be a Serbian weapons dealer. He was always nice to us, the crew (good tips and such), but thinking of his job and what it meant to people sometimes gave me the creeps. But hell, it was a job and what was I supposed to do with dependents to support back home?
Don't we all like to work for 'Médécins sans frontières', the UN, the World Food Programme, the WWF or Greenpeace? With passengers such as Kofi Annan, Nelson Mandela or Bono?
There is nothing wrong with idealism, but our employer's dirty business is an unfortunate fact of life. It isn't always the good people who can afford using a business jet...
12Watt Tim
14th Jan 2010, 21:59
Flexjet
There are many countries with higher murder rates than Iraq. Would a crew flying to Venezuela be cowboys?
Herr Reisen
16th Jan 2010, 21:38
It seems to me, that amongst these threads there is a serious lack of knowledge of the facts.
I have in the past contracted for Shell on the helicopter side. By my experience and to my knowledge they have one of the best and safest operations worldwide.
Big companies don't palm people off lightly. Let's wait for the facts!!
HR. :=
By my experience and to my knowledge they have one of the best and safest operations worldwide.
Likewise, when I flew for a Shell subsidiary many years ago.
Airplanes clean as a pin, pilots highly trained, top-notch in every respect.
And...100% dispatch reliabilty, due to a quality maintenance staff.
Years later I headed up an overseas operation, and I modeled our ops accordingly.
Folks with little knowledge of business aviation generally don't have a clue.