Retirement age?

[Super Cecil]

Why do Airlines have a compulsery retirement age if is implied in another thread your age doesn't matter?
As you get older your reflex's and skill do taper off (If your thruthful and not full of sh!t), that's where your expirence makes the difference.
Is it different in different countries?

What would people here say would be a compulsery retirement age (Obviously varies from person to person) for commercial pax ops? Should it just be on medical?

[c100driver]

There is no retirement age in NZ or AUS for airline pilots, you can keep on flying until you lose your medical. If you are flying international to countries other than NZ-AUS then you have to meet other rules about PinC under 65. In NZ there are jet capt still airline flying well into 70 plus, AUS would probably be similar?

[Mach E Avelli]

Compulsory retirement in many countries is now illegal as it comes under age discrimination. For domestic operation in Australia it is my understanding that there is now no retirement age. But practically, if an airline operates internationally, it would have to retire its pilots at some point. This is because ICAO recommend, and some ICAO States (countries) set, a maximum age for pilots. Typically if the PIC is over 60 the F/O must be under 60, or vice versa. Then there is a cut-off of 65 for all commercial flying, period (USA, France etc).
The argument of skills declining with age has been done to death elsewhere in these forums. It is a very individual thing. I have checked pilots who were on the decline at 50, while others were still very near top of the game at 70.

[airsupport]

Yes different Countries have different rules. :ok:

We had an unusual situation some years ago on International Operations, Australian registered and owned Aircraft, our Chief Pilot (an Aussie) could NOT fly as a Captain only a First Officer while we were in US airspace, he was a Captain when outside US airspace, and always the Chief Pilot. :rolleyes:

[sixtiesrelic]

I have heard the statement young people quote about the lightning reflexes that they have, to get them out of trouble.
Lotsa crosses along the side of roads don't seem to back that theory up.
One of the only places they really count is in fighter aircraft and car and bike racing.
Flogging around in commercial aircraft never gives those reflexes a chance to be used. The aircraft and pax couldn't handle it.
The experience pilots gain over a career slowly give them the rat cunning to see the problem arising and avoid allowing the holes in the cheese to line up.
Till one gets slow, forgetful or just plain sick of the cr@p we are dealt as time goes on, an older pilot is better than a sprog because he has time to pass on the cunning.
One could write a book, but being in the situation really sinks in much more than reading about it regularly.

I think its a combination of keeness and medical condition that governs retirement.
You young guns; WE'VE been you, wait your turn. You'll be us one day ... if you're lucky.

[Old Fella]

Super Cecil. I do not know what the current company policy is, however when I was employed by Cathay Pacific Airways the compulsory company retirement age for cockpit crew was 55. This had little or nothing to do with the relative skill level versus that of younger employee's but rather it was a Swire Group policy, not just CPA, designed to give those lower down the totem pole the chance to progress without having to necessarily wait for someone to expire. Of course, if manning requirements dictated, the retirement age could be increased by giving some an extension past 55 years. Reading some of the "bellyaching" from some current CPA employee's it is doubtful the age 55 limit would impact on them!

[Howard Hughes]

If old pilots didn't retire then FO's would never make Captain...;)

[sixtiesrelic]

Howard! everybody retires... maybe not as early as the impatient ones want.

[training wheels]

As you get older your reflex's and skill do taper off (If your thruthful and not full of sh!t), that's where your expirence makes the difference.

Autoland works at any age! :)

[gas-chamber]

Old age, rat cunning and treachery beats youth and overconfidence any day.

[greybeard]

The young Turks want it all TODAY, retire the old farts, give me my "rightfull" place in the left seat NOW!

I was glad the older ones were there to pass on the wisdom of the trade when I began, took 13 years to command, all good value for the time spent locked into the seniorority system in place in those years.

The laws of the land have changed, live with it, or as could be said, go to Bunnings, get the timber, build a bridge and GET OVER IT.

Old fart rant not over, just continuing

:*

[whyisthat]

In a past life I spent a lot of time researching the reasons behind compulsory retirement age, in airlines in all corners of the (western) world. With very, very few exceptions mandatory retirement rules were predicated on the reqirements of pension funds.

I could find no medical practiconer who was willing to put his or her name to a document stating that pilot competency decreased with age. If someone can produce such a document, I would be very glad to see it !.

Oh, and by the way, that includes Amos2 from the PNG crash thread.

[Mach E Avelli]

Or put it another way. If you needed a heart transplant, would you go with the 65 year old surgeon who had done hundreds of them, or the new graduate? My only question would be whether the old guy still had a steady hand and was sober at the time.

[Stikybeke]

Here we go then....old pilots never age, they just move onto a higher plane...

And has anyone noticed that as you get older you can't remember stuff so well anymore because all that cognitive space in your head is getting fuller...and how there don't seem to be as many re-runs on TV anymore but those older shows do look familiar however you can't remember what happened???? Hey and I'm only in my 50's......

Uh Oh....

Stiky
:eek:

[Peter Fanelli]

We had an unusual situation some years ago on International Operations, Australian registered and owned Aircraft, our Chief Pilot (an Aussie) could NOT fly as a Captain only a First Officer while we were in US airspace, he was a Captain when outside US airspace, and always the Chief Pilot.


In what kind of operation?
The age 60 rule here applied only to Part 121 airline operations so you might have been affected if you were QF but otherwise....
Many airline pilots here transitioned to Part 135 charter ops upon turning 60.

[Atlas Shrugged]

compulsery

Is it possible to reach retirement age without ever learning to spell?

[tail wheel]

One's numerical age is the least relevent factor in determining a pilot's capacity to command an aircraft.

I've known of 20, 30, 40 and 50 year olds that should not be let loose near a serviceable aircraft.

Conversely, I've known of pilots of all ages, including 65 plus and 70 plus that I would let my family fly with, in any aircraft, any conditions. I also know of age 70 plus airline pilots who very competently and capably pass on their skills mentoring a younger generation of pilots.

Many of us decide to work beyond what society may think is a "normal" retirement age.

Subject to health and mental ability, the decision to continue working beyond age 65 is solely a matter of personal choice.

[The Baron]

There is no retirement age at Virgin Blue. You are welcome to stay on as long as you hold a valid medical, pass the checks, and put up with the entrenched mediocrity outside of the Flight Depts...:ugh:

[airsupport]

Quote:
We had an unusual situation some years ago on International Operations, Australian registered and owned Aircraft, our Chief Pilot (an Aussie) could NOT fly as a Captain only a First Officer while we were in US airspace, he was a Captain when outside US airspace, and always the Chief Pilot.

In what kind of operation?
The age 60 rule here applied only to Part 121 airline operations so you might have been affected if you were QF but otherwise....
Many airline pilots here transitioned to Part 135 charter ops upon turning 60.

Well I purposely didn't want to post too many details, others involved may well be here. ;)

Never ever been with QF.

It was a wet lease with AWAS, we operated an Australian registered Airbus A300-600 for Guyana Airways 2000, mainly between Georgetown Guyana and New York, also to Toronto and Miami sometimes. :ok:

Very inconvenient sometimes, we had a problem in Georgetown Guyana one time, got the Aircraft rectified much quicker than we thought, the Chief Pilot was there and a couple of First Officers but the Captain was delayed in transit somewhere, the Chief Pilot wanted to get going without further delay (our Aircraft was the whole Airline) but he couldn't even though he was a Captain AND our Senior Pilot because of this age thing in US airspace. :ugh:

[Super Cecil]

Mr Shrugged,
I did indeedy have spelling error. There is noe exkuse for bads spelling these days with computars ans speal cheack. If yoo look hard yoo can find grammer (Another one there for yoo) misstakes as well. These whether intended or not do give an anal ingrate such as yourself somfink todo. Glad to have made yoor day. :}

[Atlas Shrugged]

Cec, me old mate......you always make my day. You know that!

Like clockwork, you faithfully appear on PPRuNe about this time every year from wherever it is you go during the other months and then you disappear again after a month or so for another year.

I always look forward to both such occasions, particularly the latter, with the utmost anticipation and delight, almost to the point of ecstasy and I do mean it sincerely when I say, "I love you man"!

http://www.sherv.net/cm/emo/hug/hug-2.gif

[Super Cecil]

No prob's Atlas, glad to be of help. It's summer, you know what it's like, swimming, bit of surfing, back to the bar for some top up's and have a look at prune. Holidays are always hard, actually it's time for a nap, better go. I'll have a look when I awake, all the best. SC

[alisoncc]

Apologies, haven't had time to read the whole thread, but I don't think there should be a mandatory retirement age from PPRune. Don't mind the oldies hanging out here as long as they sit quietly in the corner and don't make a fuss. :} :)

[airsupport]

Don't mind the oldies hanging out here as long as they sit quietly in the corner and don't make a fuss.

That's a bit rich coming from a 65 year old. :rolleyes:

You may upset some of us youngsters. ;)