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Yury
28th Dec 2009, 12:04
Could anybody please throw daylight upon who usually makes announcements ( I mean PF or PM )of any FMA changings during either automatic or manual flight on Boeing aircrafts. As well as during CATII or CATIII landings. I have a lot of considerations of this from different SOPs, but what on your opinion is the most universal way? Thanks...

lion-g
28th Dec 2009, 12:10
PM usually makes the call, be it auto/ manual flying. If he miss it, the PF will back him up by calling it( after a period of time). During low vis ops, PM will be monitoring the instruments as well as the a/c therefore it's the PM who will do the callout while the PF will scan in and out. Same rule applies, IF PM miss it PF will back him up by calling it.

My 2 cents worth.

Yury
28th Dec 2009, 13:10
The general PF responsibilities are flight path, airspeed control and
navigation. Moreover the mode control panel is the PFs responsibility too. He/she has to be sure of any coming mode. And when PM communicate with ATC or read checklists it is very simply to miss the call.

RAT 5
28th Dec 2009, 13:36
I don't think there is a common philosophy. I've flown for many Boeing airlines and they had different ideas. One was where the pilot making an AFDS selection called the button pushed, and the other pilot confirmed it by calling the FMA. Automatic changeovers were called by PF and "checked" by PM.
Other airlines called the button pushed but DO NOT call the FMA's, only be aware of them, and DO NOT call auto changeovers, only be aware of them. Others DO NOT call button pushed but only the FMA changes. It is very much upto the C.P. I know of one training organisation, which has many customers, where they advocate the calling of all FMA's. They think, have observed, this leads to better crew awareness of what's going on. Boeing, I believe advocate a silent cockpit.

A37575
28th Dec 2009, 13:40
Boeing, I believe advocate a silent cockpit.
RAT 5 is online now Report Post Reply

In todays flight decks it seems to me the more you state the obvious the more it is defined as good CRM. The silent cockpit is a myth

FCS Explorer
28th Dec 2009, 16:26
we used to have silent cockpit and it was GOOD.
but now we are "getting back closer to boeing procedures" or whatever and we call-out every s##t.
and then you end up with things like
"select heading select, set heading xxx"
just as if "heading select xxx" didn't say the same.

Yury
28th Dec 2009, 21:12
"Announcing changes on the FMA and thrust mode display when they occur is a good CRM practice." from b777 OM. Who should start?

Denti
28th Dec 2009, 21:15
With the belated introduction of the area of responsibility idea from boeing we also changed to a silent cockpit philosophy. FMA changes are only called during LVP below 500ft RA (and then from the PM), other system commands (gear, flaps etc) won't be answered, just actioned. Only thing is altitude clearances, those have to be "checked" at all times by the pilot not dialing them in (during automatic flight the PM, during manual flight the PF).

A37575
29th Dec 2009, 09:08
Announcing changes on the FMA and thrust mode display when they occur is a good CRM practice." from b777 OM.

Every word of advice in Boeing manuals is closely scrutinised by the company lawyers to ensure if someone bends the aeroplane, the finger can be pointed away from Boeing. Announcing FMA changes is an example. A few years ago, the manual would use the word "verify" which means use your eyes. But lawyers could pick holes in that and now they advocate "announce" so it goes loud and clear on the CVR. It has nothing to do with so called good CRM practice

Yury
29th Dec 2009, 10:12
I wish we would be able to understand true sense of some points in the Boeing philosophy, though it is perhaps good idea to leave open something for discussion.