SHFNI Stories!

[PTT]

Nope, I was assuming you meant the troop horn, which actually sounds like a vintage car horn. I know of at least one person who looked at his LHS in horror when he was reminded of the dual purpose of that button :ok:

[Tiger_mate]

Touch'e :ok:

[Dundiggin']

Gentlemen...I am now about to make an admission ........ never to be repeated ... but in the days of the AAC Sioux helicopter in NI (Vne 80Kts? downhill!) ....... I remember (only once though! :E)...... a feeling of ... SYMP ...........SYMPAT...........SYMPATHY (there I've said it!) for the poor bastards in Siouxs setting off from Aldergrove - to somewhere out west into the teeth of THE inevitable, howling 40+kts prevailing westerly wind.
I genuinely :E thought that AAC pilots must have been selected for their particular resistance to scurvy!!!:rolleyes:. Cpls being more resistant than Lts naturally of course!!

[Tiger_mate]

You must be really old!! 'Seldom' will be along in a minute to remind you that there is no place here for you after retirement. :=

You will be telling us stories about BEAVER next :}

PhamousPhotographer must be about due a photo or two...

[13,6]

I am somewhat suspicious of people posting stories purporting to be about the old days sioux, beaver etc on a thread about SHFNI. I seem to remember it was called SHDNI when I was there in 1972 PP (pre puma)!

[Tiger_mate]

13,6

I am sure that AJ RIP used to tell me on frequent occasion that that was the diameter of the Bell 47 tail rotor. Why I needed to know really is one of lifes mysteries.

A timely reminder though for a toast this evening to: Absent friends. Happy New Year Ppruners :D

[BEagle]

You will be telling us stories about BEAVER next

Thanks to the flexibility of Teeny-Weeny Airlines, I managed to avoid flying to my 6 week holding posting at Wildenrath on the trooper from Lootnairpawt in 1975 and went by Beaver instead.

4 up, a whole load of wedding presents in the back (the whole reason for the AAC's trip...:cool:) and the trip from Valley to Wildenrath via Manston proceeded at a somewhat sedate pace. Great fun but it took AGES!

I'm not sure whether any rules were broken, but chugging along IMC at lowish levels without actually speaking to anyone did seem rather a strange way of operating....:\ Still, it was a Sunday and nothing much else was flying in that weather, I imagine.

Later in the 6 weeks, with the squadron's T-bird still tits-up, I had another excellent adventure with the AAC. Wildenrath - Gutersloh - Kempten - Neubiberg and back the reverse route on the following day. The task? Taking some empty barrels back to Munich from the previous year's Oktoberfest. Much more fun than hanging about with the Harrier force bona mates....

I'm told that, rehearsing for a Wildenrath Open Day, the AAC managed to drop its 'small containers' from a Beaver onto the Air Traffickers' rather gucci radio-equipped Land.Rover, flattening the cab and almost wiping out the ATCO inside. "Didn't know you hated us that much!", quipped the ATCO. "Leave us the keys, sir", said the Sgt Major - and the very next day the Land.Rover reappeared looking as good as new...

Except that it was a ringer. Same plates, same radio kit, but a few differences inside (such as twin tanks). Very definitely rules WERE broken to achieve that, but somehow they got away with it! No doubt it caused the MTO some issues though - assuming the story was actually true.

[diginagain]

.........but in the days of the AAC Sioux helicopter in NI..... there was a suggestion that it might have been more productive to put the cabs onto a low-loader and drive them upwind.

[Kreuger flap]

Beagle, this thread is for stories about SHFNI not your rather tedious tales of Germany.:=

[PhamousPhotographer]

PhamousPhotographer must be about due a photo or two... One, or three, for Dundiggin. A classic airframe - this one's XT811; along with the Wessex it epitomised 1970s heliops in the Province.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image01Oct-Nov1976PhamousPhotog.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image02Oct-Nov1976PhamousPhotog.jpg

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image03Oct-Nov1976PhamousPhotog.jpg

The location is obvious, but for whatever reason, presumably lack of hours, there was little activity that day so I didn't get any tasking shots of them and they left NI soon afterwards – I believe this was the last unit to depart. One thing that struck me was the level of maintenance and attention to detail that REME still clearly invested in what had by this time (Oct/Nov 1976) become a practically obsolete type. Immaculate. From memory there were six or eight others in the hangar in the background of the first view with one prepared for inspection and in Concours condition, and look at the other kit parked round the hls.

In case I don't get one – or two – more on before midnight, a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year to you all.

[Wiretensioner]

Well said Kreuger! My thoughts exactly of someone else who thinks he's an expert on everything.

Wiretensioner

[BEagle]

Yes, as those with even the merest modicum of intelligence will undoubtedly have realised, I posted in the wrong thread. I mistook this for the 'Puma Crash Sentence' thread.

So I will merely wish you rude, grumpy old $ods a Happy New Year and leave you to your rivetting private tales of corrugated iron clad buildings, cloud covered hillsides, rain-soaked bogs and ancient, clattering devices so hideously ugly that the earth repels them.

Anyway, why dig in when you can Holiday Inn?

[Dundiggin']

Anything you post in whichever forum is bound to be interesting - so as far as I am concerned - you are forgiven. :ok:
Happy New Year to you and the memsahib and may you have many more of them...........happy New Years that is not too many more memsahibs!! Whatever floats yer boat mate.........:E
By the way Beagsy-babe......the fact that you have read this forum is strong indication of a secretly held, closet jealousy that you had in your wonderful whoopy doop flying career when you realised you did not possess the necessary natural skills to control these whirlygigs which (except for the Sioux in NI) gave all of us so much job satisfaction and so much fun.:cool: It's a bit like rugger buggers and footballers; rugger buggers are failed footballers cos they don't have the God given skillset!! :E
PS: I could tell some Beaver stories too but I won't in order to protect the innocent.......;)

[Tiger_mate]

Those Sioux photographs are a credit to Army Aviation and the techs that serviced them :D

I have been to that location hundreds of times and never once thought of the buildings that caused recirculation so efficiently as hangars in which aviation was once permanently based. Recirculation that added .5` pitch when lifting USL which I know having once been tasked to lifted the ATO (snooker) buggy to the other side of the tall trees to assess whether or not the briefed weight was incorrect. The ground was flat and free from obstructions the other side of the trees.

What was the purpose of the yellow band around the cockpit glazing?

[ShyTorque]

When the donk stops you're only ever going to go as far as what you see below the yellow band.

[handysnaks]

What was the purpose of the yellow band around the cockpit glazing?
It's what the army called an artificial horizon :p

Beags, anyone who has a good story about the Army Air Corps nicest unit is welcome to post on Rotorheads anytime! :ok:

[Davey Emcee]

ST That's the first time I've heard that,and don't believe it to be true. It was there to give a reference to the aircrafts attitude with the horizon.
Handysnaks you got ther before me.

[PTT]

When the donk stops you're only ever going to go as far as what you see below the yellow band. Does that mean you could extend the auto by lowering the seat? :confused:

[Davey Emcee]

The only way to lower the seat on a Sioux was to lower the lever.:p

[Fareastdriver]

AAC Sioux helicopter in NI (Vne 80Kts? downhill!)

I remember being told about that after I had underslung a sickly Sioux (helicopter) back to Aldergrove from some field in county Antrim at about 120 knots. I had to slow down to that because the crewman was losing sight of it at the back of the u/s hole at 140. The information I had from the AAC was that it was fortunate that the bubble hadn't burst at that speed.
Had I had been trained on the Sioux I would have known but I was trained on Sycamores; so I didn't.

[charliegolf]

but I was trained on Sycamores

Ye gods Fareast! You must be as old as John Atkinson!

CG

[Raincheck]

Have to agree with Shy Torque, although it is 38 years since I flew one !. I recall that what you saw below the yellow band was where you were going if the donk stopped, (without any hydraulic power on the controls of course).

[Davey Emcee]

FED was that from Toome Bridge in 1975 by any chance??

[SASless]

At least ol' Beags found his way into a "military forum" finally!:E

[PhamousPhotographer]

When the donk stops you're only ever going to go as far as what you see below the yellow band. If you crouched down in the seat did that extend the range? I always understood its purpose was a horizon reference and talking to an ex-Sioux driver in Bessbrook many years ago, he recalled that with a couple of thousand feet of clear air beneath the skids the 47 was a very efficient glider. Never having managed to blag a lift in one I've no idea, but looking at that main rotor – massive in comparison to what it's supporting – it seems feasible? To complete the set, this was the only movement that day at Y011; Scout XV136 departing for ?

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image04Oct-Nov1976PhamousPhotog.jpg

[teeteringhead]

Some "madeleine moments" here. As one who trained on (RAF!) Sioux I'm sure the yellow line was an horizon. Not so much artificial but (as BEags will no doubt remember from UAS days) as a datum for visual flying.

IIRC the Vne was 91 kts (is that a round figure in mph?) and could indeed be only achieved "downhill". But the RAF Sioux were supercharged, I don't think the Hairy Arm Corps ones were.

Thinking (BEags again) of the Beaver and its use for jollies, I remember one instance when P*rc* S*tt*n was FATOC-ing at Lisburn, and was keen to get a buckshee trip back to ODIZ.

The plan went thusly:

1. Invent and task totally bogus VIP task for Beaver to pick up pax from ODIZ (always handy for Aldershot).

2. Add himself to manifest for "empty" outbound leg.

3. Cancel task at last minute, getting the (expected) response - "Bugger - after all that planning! We'll go anyway as a training trip!"

4. Result. :ok:

[Edited to add: 91 kts = 105mph and the cruise IIRC was 74 kts = 85mph, so that may have been the reason .....]

[Fareastdriver]

FED was that from Toome Bridge in 1975 by any chance??

May 1974. It was during the UUWC strike. Whilst they were removing the Sioux's blades I was discussing the possiblity of purchasing a heifer from the farmer whose field it was in. The strike had closed the abbatoirs so farmers were losing big money. Our Eng O was a qualified butcher so my plot was to come back with a Puma plus one of our spare 9 mm. rounds; knock the cow over and bring it back to Algergrove. There it would be shared out in freezer packs between the subscribers. Unfortunately, everybody was too stingy to front up the cash so the idea collapsed.

There was nothing wrong with the Sioux. OC Recce Flt had run out of fuel.

[downsizer]

No way a 9mm would take down a cow....:eek:

You'd have been better clubbing it to death...:ok:

[Fareastdriver]

I would have known where to put the bullet. I had done a few kudus for biltong in Rhodesia.

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

;)

PS: I could tell some Beaver stories too but I won't in order to protect the innocent.......

So could I - but not on this forum !!!

[Airborne Aircrew]

I would have known where to put the bullet. I had done a few kudus for biltong in Rhodesia.

Utter tosh... You've probably slept in sheets that could stop a 9mm...:\

[diginagain]

You've probably slept in sheets that could stop a 9mm...
Especially the rounds sourced from the Indian subcontinent that left a whiff of curry after firing.

[earswentpop]

Guys/gals,

I've loved reading this thread - one of the very best on PPRuNe. A bit of a long shot, I agree, but I am trying to track down a particular object which might have been liberated from Queen's UAS at or near its closure.

If anyone knows anything of the whereabouts of a rectangular 8" x 4" (ish) brushed aluminium plate bearing the words "Olympia Stadion Berlin", I would be delighted to hear from you. It means a lot ...

Yours,

EWP

[Dundiggin']

Cheers for the memories...........as had already been stated they were a credit to their techies. Of course I only recognise them from on top when in the 'underslung' position! :E

[oldbeefer]

Was on a Helichamps competition, when a Scout had two engine failures in two days!

[PhamousPhotographer]

Thirty years on from the last view and back to Crabair
Had a go in a mate's Puma and was gobsmacked at how early you had to start deceleration. Very relevant when approaching any of the pads on the hilltop OPs.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image012006PhamousPhotog.jpg

Here, with Sgt T****n W*****d in the doorway, XW199 has everything under control on finals to -

The water's the giveaway.

[Tiger Tales]

I bet T****n nipped out to use the loo as well!! :}
This one time, R*** H even used the surrounding razor wire to slow the cab down! :E

[NutLoose]

Ahhhh XW199 the first helicopter, indeed the first real aircraft I worked on in the RAF outside training! when it was on the OCU fleet. XW200 XW201 XW202 XW218 being the others, XW 218 replacing XW198 after it did a jig on the end of the lazy runway and beat itself to death..... It was bound to happen as Airfix produced the model of it..

As for the Bell 47, one autorotated at Cranfield and as it landed on heavy the bubble blew out in spectacular style, who needs emergency exits, when the cabin simply disappears from around you.

Whilst at Cranfield having left the RAF, I was suprised to see a couple of engineers frequently doing full burning and turning runs on a Gazelle, enquiring what will you do if you get ground resonance, the reply, "what's that?" didn't exactly give me much confidence... I didn't hang around.....

[Airborne Aircrew]

Nutloose:

Looking in my logbook I see XW200, 201 and 202 from Feb 85 to Apr 85 regularly...

Maybe we met....

[Fareastdriver]

XW198 after it did a jig on the end of the lazy runway and beat itself to death.....It was bound to happen as Airfix produced the model of it..

Wrong! Here is a picture to prove it.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/img012.jpg

Airfix came round to 33 Sqn to all the research on XW214 and then one day in March 1973 I had a call to say the model was ready and could we fly some of the kits in the actual aircraft. Unfortunately 214 had had a somewhat noisy discussion with a Belfast hanger door frame in Aldergrove followed but a bit of pique where it laid on its side and wound around 100 metres of gannet wire around its rotor head. Being a metal bladed Puma it had also worked over a few civilian cars parked nearbye.
Luckily Auntie Betty had some spare Pumas tucked away so we had been issued with XW227 which had in no time sported the letters C L on its boom. At the end of the day I took 227 to Battersea on the 28/3/1973. We had an excellent lunch on Airfix and then they took lots of photos of the aircraft showing the C L but not the XW227. The scan above is of an unbuilt kit from that flight.
There were later kits with those ghastly poliwhatsits on the engines but at the time that XW198 threw a wobbly that was the only kit going.

[NutLoose]

Well I never, all these years I thought it was XW198, I wonder if I mixed it up with the Matchbox one?. Airfix incidentally produced the first Hercules after it came down off sticks, and despite being told, the early kit had beautifully cast jacking pads on the outside.

Airborne, missed XW201 off my list (corrected).
Was on the Wessex, Puma OCU 76 to about 80 when the Wessex departed to Benson, The Pumas remained put in the old OCU shed and the rest of us moved over to the OCU Chinook flight, with the late and sadly missed Arthur Mitchell as W/O (ex 230 Puma F/sgt) in the old 230 Sqn hangar, the Pumas then followed us over as it became established. From there I went to Bruggen on a couple of Jag Sqns, and would have been there attempting and failing to drink Germany dry at about the time you were flying them...

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/CWxw202-1.jpg

[PhamousPhotographer]

At the end of the day I took 227 to Battersea on the 28/3/1973.This one time, R*** H even used the surrounding razor wire to slow the cab down!Must have been a jinx on the Airfix connection? Here's 227 on 12/3/2002, four days before her cat 5 demise.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0112-03-2002PhamousPhotog.jpg

That's XR525 on spot 5 and we'd just landed on after recording 'G' over Millvale Road (see #109) with R*** H in the rh seat of the Puma.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0212-03-2002PhamousPhotog.jpg

A typical day's tasking at 850.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0312-03-2002PhamousPhotog.jpg

[rotormonkey]

R850, 1 Puma, down the tube, against the flow... something like that!

Good phots Phamous, good memories :}

[RUCAWO]

Looking for a bit of help here, has anyone got any photos of, or know the serials/codes of the first four Pumas from 33Sqn deployed to NI in December 1972. Any help would be appreciated .

[Fareastdriver]

I am pretty certain it was XW 204, 205, 214 and 215. After 214's fracas, see above Airfix post, it was replaced in Aldergrove by 224.

[RUCAWO]

Perfect, thank you very much.:ok:

[RUCAWO]

Following on from the above does anyone have photos of XW214 on its first deployment to NI ? I can find plenty of it from about 1980 onwards but nothing before.

[Fareastdriver]

Very few people took photographs in those days; the situation was still rather fraught. You can tell by the paucity of Puma pictures in this thread before the polivalent intakes were fitted in 1979.

[ShyTorque]

Yes, the NI situation in the early 90s meant that personal photography was discouraged. I have absolutely nil photos of my time there; it didn't occur to me to take any. Having said that, it was dark most of the time, anyway ;).

[RUCAWO]

That's what I thought, all I can find from that time are poor black and white shots mostly with the codes etc unreadable, quick question would the 33Sqn insignia have been be carried on the cockpit sides?

[Fareastdriver]

Go back to Page 8 Post 156 of this thread and there is a picture of me dragging a Scout from Omagh to Aldergrove in 1973. It is taken from an 8mm cine film so the quality is not good but you can see the Squadron Crest on the pilot's (both) doors.

[Courtney Mil]

Sorry about this. As one that knows little about helos, can I ask what the intake extensions were for? Bird protection? IR?

[Fareastdriver]

They are 'Stopanynastythingsgoingintotheengines' kit. The Dyson vacuum cleaner also uses the same principle. The front has a plug that can be opened or closed, and on the side are the FOD/ice seperators. These are small tubes with a spiral in them that spins the air so that anything solid is ejected out of the side and only clean air goes in the intake. A very good idea especially where there is a lot of abrasive dust around.
Some foreign Pumas have a system where the plug is opened when the undercarriage is raised so that the engine receives pitot or ram air.

[ShyTorque]

Polyvalent intake protection system was designed to keep debris and dust from damaging the engines.

The HC1 PIPs could be set to auto so they worked in conjunction with the landing gear.

[Courtney Mil]

Thank you, Gents. What a neat piece of kit. And a good explanation!

Courtney

[oldbeefer]

So good a piece of French made kit was it, that before long, lids were fitted permanently over them and the internal pistons removed.:E

[helidoris]

I was with him one night when he did it and patted the policeman on the head.

[helidoris]

Garvin72, I have a few pics from the period , 75-83, when i was on 72.

[RUCAWO]

Another "anorak" question, on the 1972 deplyment were the plack panels painted behind the exhausts or not? It's very hard to make them out on the photo.

[cornish-stormrider]

If tis not paint tis dirt. Paint it black either way.

A puma has two cleanliness states. Filthy and more so,

And before anyone disagrees I have partaken in the joke that is the aircraft wash.......

[Tiger_mate]

The wendy housing was not originally painted black but may as well have been due to the soot. By 1980 they had a black panel on them which itself tended to get blurred edges due to more soot. If you are looking at this for modelling purposes, then not only were PIPS absent, but the forward portion of the engine cover was tapered down and the metal rotor blades are narrower then the GRP ones. In 1971, no hockey stick (tail rotor skid) was fitted.
http://www.nationalcoldwarexhibition.org/explore/images/timeline/1979/TN9038-6.jpg
1979??

[RUCAWO]

It is sort of modelling related, both types of blades are available for this , the first , a 2009 230 cab should be available around June. This is related to a future release, when I don't know but it should be an early operational scheme, going by the pic of the Scout lift the tail skid was fitted about this time.

[Fareastdriver]

The first batch of Pumas did not have a tail skid. None of the OCU; XW 197-203; or 33 Sqn; XW 204-216. 230 Sqn continued with XW217 onwards. Around Trembling Two they were attached to the aircraft coming out of Westlands and a couple were isued to Odiham. "They are never going to be retrofitted" was the official line; until 219(?) had a tailstrike in Stanton PTA and was heavily rearranged.

Three weeks later ALL the Pumas had skids on.

[PhamousPhotographer]

Why tail-skids are occasionally necessary – though on this occasion it didn't quite make contact with the tarmac as XW231 attempted to depart up the tube from spot 5. This was the only shot I took as 231's nose rose ever-higher –

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image01PhamousPhotog.jpg

before -

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image02PhamousPhotog.jpg

what I presume was full forward cyclic saved the day – no, it wasn't the Farmer and I'll not give the date or names. Potentially embarrassing.

After a couple of minutes rearranging what must have been fairly heavy boxes –

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image03PhamousPhotog.jpg

that day's ARB supplies finally got airborne. What advice would the Captain have given the Loadmaster?

[Tiger Tales]

What advice would the Captain have given the Loadmaster?

Lay off the soda farls and Guinness?? :ok:

[garv]

Thanks helidoris, would love any pictures from that era if you could post them or email them it would be great.

[NutLoose]

BTW revel are rereleasing the 1/32 poly intaked SA330 this year in German
Police markings.


OCU Puma circa 77 flood relief Wells next to the sea

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/CXXW200240OCUWellssportspitches.jpg


OCU at Odious


http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/CWxw202-1.jpg

[ShyTorque]

1979??

Yes, I'm almost 100% sure that particular photo was taken in Rhodesia, 1979, during Op Agila ("ceasefire" monitoring ops).

[charliegolf]

What advice would the Captain have given the Loadmaster?

"Never listen to my crap advice about Puma loading again as long as you live, crewman".

"Roger Shy". (Kiddin' Shy)

[Dundiggin']

The 'posed' photo (note u/c was up) over Victoria Falls was 33 Sqn XW204 and was taken in 1981(I think) when the Sqn went out to Rhodesia for the Ceasefire Monitoring Force. :cool:
We did a similar pose a couple of days later. Hovering in the spray gave one a hollow stomach I can tell you!! :yuk:
By the way, does anyone know what the Ceasefire Monitoring Force medal is worth these days? :)

[Q-SKI]

I remember going to collect my body armour pre sortie only to find that Gimlet had signed out every set to layer the floor of the Puma as he was due to deliver some USL's to a site of dubious renown!

[ShyTorque]

The 'posed' photo (note u/c was up) over Victoria Falls was 33 Sqn XW204 and was taken in 1981(I think) when the Sqn went out to Rhodesia for the Ceasefire Monitoring Force.

Dundiggin',

No, yer older than you think and yer memory's gone! The photo was taken late 1979 (or it might have been very early 1980). About six weeks after I joined the "other" squadron; I was in morning brief when Brian Wright announced the Op Agila deployment to us. :ok:

[Aud]

Ex Royal Engineer here, don't worry, I've got better! ....my last tour to the province was in 1978 and I recall being flown from I think Bessbrook Mill to XMG and when we arrived we were unceremoniously 'dumped' in the middle of the Gaelic Football pitch at the back of the RUC station. The only problem was that there was a match taking place at that time!!! It really didn't go down too well with the locals especially as we were about to change our attachment from the Green Jackets to 2 Para....which was their first tour since Bloody Sunday.

Quick question...... How many times did you guys catch a Wessex tail wheel on the fence at Dungannon RUC station. From what I saw you came mighty close many times :)

[garv]

Could anyone tell me what Puma's were in N ireland 79, 80, 81?

[obnoxio f*ckwit]

Not the fence at Dungannon, but dragged one through the wire at G10, with the speed with which the bolt croppers were produced I don't think it was the first time!

[ShyTorque]

Quick question...... How many times did you guys catch a Wessex tail wheel on the fence at Dungannon RUC station. From what I saw you came mighty close many times

There were two or three tailwheel dings on the fence at Dungannon in my time there in the early 90s. Someone had painted an arrow on the fence pointing to the best one and annotated it "OC A flight". :E

(And no, I didn't fly tailwheelers, so none were mine).

[PhamousPhotographer]

There were two or three tailwheel dings on the fence at DungannonTwo, to be precise.
Someone had painted an arrow on the fence pointing to the best one and annotated it "OC A flight".To my knowledge he was originally 72 Sqn STANO when the fence hit occurred, then OC'C', and here be he - as 2IC

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0127-03-1996PhamousPhotog.jpg

Sqn Ldr 'Stormy' P*** M****n at Y453 on 29th March 1996, climbing down from the l.h. seat of XV721'H' while an anonymous TSW Refueller tops up Heavylift's tanks, Flt Sgt D*** McC*****e fits the intake cover and Flt Lt D***** S******d watches the fuel gauges. North spot, Killymeal, Dungannon.

The proof? As promotion progressed , the fence was updated, with B**** F*****n's advancement also recorded on 26th November 1996, thus -

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0226-11-1996PhamousPhotog.jpg

In an earlier view, taken on 31st August 1994, XR528'T' arrives on the north spot with the fence graffiti in original condition.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0331-08-1994PhamousPhotog.jpg

The gap at the 'OC 72' hit was caused by that section being cut out, apparently by POD, mounted on a plinth and presented to Mr F*****n on his departure from the squadron. BTW, Killymeal (453) was UDR/RIR – the RUC base was across the town on Castle Hill (Y452). Though it too had a helipad inside the fence, I assume Killymeal is what's being discussed by Aud and Shy.

[lsh]

And of course, this photo shows the exact location of the "I'm hit"! event........

lsh
:E

[Hueymeister]

Ish...explain?

[PhamousPhotographer]

And of course, this photo shows the exact location of the "I'm hit"! Event........Ish...explain?Please do – would make a change from all those boring photos. After all, you started the thread and referred to Dunganoon in # 01.

[mindstorm]

STANO when he hit it - sometime in 1989/90. :D

[lsh]

Well its Top Secret, of course but....

The crew were moved down to that hut from one further up the road (at the "business end" of the rifle-range IIRC?).

The camp was mortared, the pilots (bravely) hid under the table.
The crewman ran outside, lay flat, but was "hit".
"I'm hit, I'm hit" said he - feeling something soggy in the middle of his back.
It was a clod of earth, very luckily!

Rumour was that the RSM was in the old hut - it had been converted to a sauna (sounds too good to be true though).

Truth was that somebody (probably Steve?) did a great sketch involving two arses and a table !!!

And the crewman - all I can say is that he was not an ALM, had a CND sticker on his car and his wife had hairy

Must go!

lsh
:E

[Hueymeister]

Wessex XT607 now sits at the bottom of a quarry pit for divers to play with...got about 200hrs on her :(:{

[PhamousPhotographer]

Wessex XT607 now sits at the bottom of a quarry pit for divers to play with Indeed it does - see

Simon Brown Images - Photographer & Writer (http://www.simonbrownimages.com/portfolio11.html)

but getting on for 20 years ago – 9th May 1994 to be precise – it was the line cab at Killymeal, here arriving with Sgt N**** Mc***e calling the height. Pilot Flt Lt R*** G***t; Nav Flt Lt J** S******n.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0109-05-1994PhamousPhotog.jpg

In this view, the crew wait while two unidentified TSW refuelers replen the cab prior to that day’s tasking.

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx299/PhamousPhotographer/Image0209-05-1994PhamousPhotog-1.jpg

[PhamousPhotographer]

In an earlier post I think I recorded that Y453 had been sold to a developer in 2006 / ’07 for c.£13.5 million – some £1m/acre just before the property bubble burst. Note the asking price today –

Killymeal House, Killymeal Road, Dungannon - Land & Sites For Sale (http://www.propertynews.com/Property/Dungannon/PNC577329/Killymeal-Road/)

The main helipad and floor slabs are still visible on the satellite view of the site with the piano keys and ‘72’ on the northern end of the pan.

PS Just for the record, Phamous has no commercial or other interest whatsoever in this former FOB!!!

[helidoris]

And know also as Helidet. SHFNI soon became SHNFI

[seafuryfan]

Phamousphotographer please clear your PMs.

[Top Slice]

For all of you that dont know Ken has passed away, I have pasted the notice from the local paper. I knew him well and worked with him years ago.He was a gentleman. . .



Compassionate family man who bore illness with courage


Published on Sunday 7 October 2012 10:00

KENNETH Boyd, who has died in hospital after a long illness, was a man of a broad and deep intellect - a caring and compassionate man who had a great concern for others, despite the serious illness he bore with great courage.

Mr Boyd had been transferred to Addenbrooke’s Hospital in Cambridge two months ago in the hope of receiving a transplant, but it wasn’t to be, and he passed away surrounded by his loving family. He was 59 and his home was at Clanbrassil Park, Portadown.

As well as his care and concern for others, Mr Boyd’s enthusiasm for various aspects of life was contagious - he was an extremely interesting conservationist, a deep thinker with a superb gift for communication. He was born in Newry in 1953 and was educated at the town’s Windsor Primary School, Newry Grammar and at Belfast College of Technology. He began his working life as an architectural draughtsman for the NI Housing Executive in 1971, putting his heart and soul into every project.

His pride and joy was showcasing his many housing projects, especially the Tamlaght O’Crilly and surrounding area in Joy Street, Belfast. He was also responsible for many developments in the Omagh area of County Tyrone.

In 1976 Kenneth married Ruth (nee Hill) and moved to Portadown. They had two children - David and Caroline, to whom they were devoted parents and best friends. They were devastated when David tragically passed away 11 years ago, 18 months after a fall at a summer job. Kenneth and David were like brothers - a father profoundly proud of his son.

David was in his final year as a geography student at the University of Ulster, Coleraine, a talented writer and commentator who aspired to have a career in journalism. He was a Portadown football fan who wrote regularly to the press, under the pseudonym ‘Flagpole Ender’. And more recently, Kenneth was proud to attend the graduation of daughter Caroline and delighted to see her gain her doctorate in cancer research at Queen’s University, Belfast, after many years of dedicated study. He was also delighted when she announced her engagement to Dave, and - with his health deteriorating - wished them a long and happy life together.

As well as wife Ruth and daughter Caroline, he is survived by his mother Mrs Sheena Boyd (Newry), brother Mervyn (Los Angeles) and family circle. His father John died 26 years ago.

Kenneth was highly regarded for his great intellect, allied to his humility. He had a passion for reading and was particularly interested in history. He was an authority on the two World Wars, on aeroplanes, Formula One racing, motorbikes and railways throughout Ireland.

Kenneth Boyd was kind, thoughtful and selfless, almost to a fault. A devoted family man, he had a genuine interest in others, always helping where he could. His philosophy was that he never wasted a day of his life, that life would be over in a flash and was to be enjoyed to the full.

Sadly, he endured poor health for many years and was a regular patient at Craigavon Area Hospital where he received first-class treatment. More recently, he also received excellent medical care and attention at the Royal Victoria Hospital in Belfast, and in the past eight weeks at Addenbrooke’s.

The family held a private funeral service, led by Dr Stafford Carson of First Portadown (Edenderry) Presbyterian Church, and burial was at Kernan Cemetery next to David. In lieu of flowers, donations are to the Royal Victoria Hospital, Level 6A, and to the Intensive Care Unit and Craigavon Area Hospital. These can be sent via the Portadown undertakers, George McNabb & Co., 106 Bridge Street, Portadown BT63 5AP.

[Crompers]

Do my eyes deceive me or is that NI cab wearing a 240 OCU tail badge ?

[Crompers]

Blimey, another 240 OCU stumblie cab in SHNFI !

[Crompers]

Oops, my mistake, this is a 72 cab NOT a 240 stumblie !

[NutLoose]

Nope, 72Sqn, the OCU did not have the bars either side :O

[ShyTorque]

I think you're looking at the "Swift" badge, rather than the Humming bird.

[tomdocherty72]

Ken will be sadly missed by all the friends he made in the SH community over the years. RIP

[The Helpful Stacker]

http://sphotos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/335_28828042115_6369_n.jpg

Everyone's favourite task, the bin run to R850. Was a busy day by the looks of it too.

[Simonta]

Cpl Dick P****, sootie, sitting in the line crewroom one morning, circa 1984. Sqn WO (I can't recall the name) hovers into the room.

"Cpl P****, I saw you leave the squadron at 5.15 last night. You know that shift change is 5.30." "Not me sir", says Dick, "it must have been someone else".

WO, visibly irked; "Don't argue with me Cpl, I saw you leave at 5.15".

"Definitely not me sir, I left at about 5".

Incandescent with rage was the only possible description of said WO's state.

Surprised no-one has mentioned burgers from "chogies". 'H' L***le and his pals jamming at the Swift retreat toga parties. Plod standing back and watching as the RGJs and Guards smash each other up, and the NAAFI, until one of them pops a wooly alligator in through the window, rapidly followed by various grunts leaving via all available exits. Frequent radio checks on HF to "Architect", just to see if it was the girl who could peel of your undercrackers with her silky, sexy voice. Turning the screen wash jets on the lineys Landrover through 90 degrees and then choosing to wash the the screen as we drove past the RAFP babies on the main gate.

Sitting in a pub somewhere in Norfolk on a day off from pre-NI training at the Stamford range. Showing each other bar and magic tricks. Gimlet says "watch this one" and proceeds to stub a cigarette out on the end of his thumb. We were suitably impressed until a few minutes later when we noticed Gimlet had his thumb immersed in this beer under the table with an extremely false and very fixed "I'm OK" kind of smile on this face.

Coating the marshaling bats in paraffin and lighting them to help guide Walter back home one foggy night.

Feeling like sh*t when handing the line over to the incoming night shift boss and realising that I'd left the V813 cab in the shed. Dashing to get it out and dinked a blade tip on the hangar door.

Feeling fantastic when we got an urgent out of hours callout for V813 and myself and 4 other guys had her on the pan and warmed up less than 15 minutes after being in bed and getting the call.

Ah, happy days.

[jayteeto]

The WO was called Jack, can't for the life of me remember his surname. As a young J/T JT, he was always Sir anyway. I can remember that his picture on the Sqn noticeboard was permanently enhanced with a jesters hat. He was a harsh supervisor, but you always knew EXACTLY where you stood with him....:eek:
The RAFPol absolutely HATED the 72 lineys, especially after we had the 72 FTF badges made up. I could write a book about the hundreds of incidents with them vs us. Including the above, police dogs through the barricaded windows of Belfast block. Carnage.
Pete Mc and I caught handbrake turning the sqn cdrs Mazda 626, the Beaver propellor spinner 'cycling helmet', the amazing sinking line corporal's pager, the route march from the Swift to Belfast Block (special salute for the RAFP), how on earth did we get helicopters into the air?????????? :ok:

[NutLoose]

Nelson the Cat.... :} ohhh I better not go there :(

[mckelvey]

The WO was called Jack,

IIRC his surname was Jack Anderson who retired to work for Shorts and had a house in Bangor. I always found him to be a firm but fair leader and a fellow proud Ulsterman.

McK

[RUCAWO]

Thanks to all who answered my questions earlier in the thread ,here is the reason , Corgi diecasts Puma HC.1 2nd release, XW214 ,Aldergrove 1972-73 , this is the pre-production model so a few corrections need to be made for release ,mostly removal of later equipment.


Pre-pro of the 33Sqn Puma ,courtesy of Corgi.

errors

Wrong blades, early ones will be will be in the production model

GPMG not needed

Under fuselage ECM not needed

Nose HD IR spotlight not needed.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0001.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0002.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0003.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0005.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0006.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0007.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0009.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0010.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

What is missing is the HF ariel under the boom. The original Airfix model missed this as well It can be seen on my post No 156.

The original rotor tips were yellow with a black nose. I know because I have one of 214's original rotor tips at home.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee224/fareastdriver/IMG_0050_zps7c4e3d92.jpg

[RUCAWO]

Thanks for that , :ok:the aerial will be there on the production model , the older style blades should have the correct colours ,but any chance you can send me a pic of the blade tip so I can send it to Corgi?

[NutLoose]

You are also missing the black section from behind the exhausts to hide the staining.
The red banding on the door was closer to the edge

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/RAF/CXXW200240OCUWellssportspitches.jpg

[Fareastdriver]

Further to my last, the ice shield over the tail rotor pitch controls were not around up to 1978 when I left and the 330J did not have them either.

Looking at the picture of CX my HF ariel is the FM ariel with the HF on wires. It also confirms my view that the 'CL' is one letter too far back.

[RUCAWO]

Already picked up on that thanks it will be removed on the model, as for the black area at the exhausts was it on the airframes late 72 early 73 or did that come later?

[NutLoose]

Might have been later, not on this one

http://www.raf-upper-heyford.org/40ARRW/aGooseAndApuma.jpg

[RUCAWO]

That's what I thought ,thanks for the input.

[Fareastdriver]

Just to cheer you up. I have just had a look at my film of 33 Sqn's reformation in 1971. Then the ariel under the boom was not fitted. I picked up the first Airfix model kits in 'CL' then XW227 on 28th March 1973.. The original 'CL' XW214, had just had a discussion with a hanger at Aldergrove, so when Airfix did their initial survey some months before it was possible the the FM fit had not been incorporated which would be why they did not have it on. However, as far as I am aware they would have all had them in NI.
Nutloose's pictures hows the HF ariel on the side. IIRC I picked up the first HF modified aircraft from the MU at Leconfield on 11th April 1974 so they would not have been fitted to 214 at that time.

Remember to put the ash tray in th cockpit.

[ShyTorque]

Remember to put the ash tray in the cockpit.

Most Puma ashtrays now reside in the jungle of Belize.

[dragartist]

Pleased to see the Black square on the nose was in place back then. I thought they would have fixed it by now!

I am told that the green bump stop under the tail and that stuff on the front is being refitted on the Mk 2s being reworked. no doubt the stuff under it has been updated- well I hope so because we robbed it from the Vulcan fleet in 81.

Enjoyed reading this thread. Wessex was the first a/c I did any design work for. Great memories of PIII, Cougar and even the Beaver.

[NutLoose]

Wessex was the first a/c I did any design work for

It was designed....:eek:

[Lee Howard]

Just (belatedly) picked up on the sad news about Ken Boyd. I corresponded briefly with Ken when I was looking for photos of Junglies in NI to help illustrate my FAA Helicopter book back in 2010 and he was extremely generous and supportive.

I think the aviation community, and particularly those who subscribe to this thread, owe him a great deal for managing to capture on film such historical gems as we've been seeing from his archives. I know all too well how it can often be a struggle to persuade people to allow photography on military establishments - purely to record events as they happen, safe in the knowledge that one day they'll probably be the only visual record that survives of a particular event or era - but doing so in such sensitive locations as NI must have taken an altogether different level of persuasion and tenacity. My hat goes off to him. RIP Ken.

Lee

[pedroalpha]

I liberated an ashtray from an Argie Puma at Stanley in 1982. It proved most useful in the Chinook.

[charliegolf]

The crewman in the model looks like a 1:1 scale model of LSH.:ok:

CG

[lsh]

Had the same thought myself!
(Their Wessex model has a life-sized crewman concealed behind the door too.)

lsh
:E

[RUCAWO]

The first Puma due next month XW218 late 2009 at about the time 230 moved from Aldergrove to Benson.

Pics

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/IMG_0016-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0033.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0031.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0030.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0029.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0028.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0027.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0022.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/_MG_0021.jpg

[CoffmanStarter]

Nice model :ok:

If it smells of swarfega suggest you ask NutLoose about bespoke cleaning techniques :E

[Geezers of Nazareth]

Quite a nice looking model ... but I'm not an expert in these things.

However, I don't recollect ever seeing a Puma with its serial number painted adjacent to the starboard door ... any photographic evidence anywhere?

[RUCAWO]

Like this ?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/IMG_0520.jpg

[dragartist]

Nice model, I think I may save up for one. Just one point about the colour of the RWR radome on the nose. I designed it in 1981/82 Chinook was first use in Falklands then SeaKing before Puma. the first ones were ABS and blueish/grey. they sufferded bad fatigue cracking. I was a young man with hair at the time and bowed down to my boss who insisted on using that "aircraft approved" interia trim material. the later ones were the UHMWHDPE green that did weather to wash out some of the rutile organic pigments that turned greyish. they were made on a shelly vac forming machine at Special Signals Unit (SSU) at Woolwich arsenal. following some advice from Dr's Davies and Simms at RARDE Waltham Abbey and RAPRA at Shawbury (Not RAF Shawbury)

Like feastdrivers yellow blade tip I still have one of the first green ones hanging in my garage.

After extensive UV exposure trials in Cloncurry Nr cairns in Queensland (No I never went) and testing at DGDQA part of the Arsenal I established a safe life of 10 years. (they could have gone longer but this was very safe) I did not imagine that some 30 years later they would still be in service and even carried forward onto the new Puma rebuild and Chinooks.

The one under the boom looks about Ok. I think someone lost the jig I made to trim them and they got bigger over the years.

Nice model anyway but don't forget the black tape around the nose door!

[RUCAWO]

Dragartist this one was carefully researched, any minor errors are down to the factory in China not following instructions, the colour of the RWR isn't one of them ,pic of the original below. And the black tape is on the nose of this one:ok:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/four/mrlvis025.jpg

[dragartist]

Well I can't argue with the photo evidence.
this discolouration is the first signs of UV degredation. likely to see brittle failures if impacted, particularly at Low temperatures. back to where we were in 1982 with the ABS

Should one of these get struck it may shatter into shards. I would strongly recomend that someone connected gets in touch with the EA and raises the matter.

Just goes to show we don't have the technical expertise these days. all the units mentioned above have gone.

No I am not comming out of retirement!!

[Geezers of Nazareth]

RUCAWO, thanks for the pic ... I can honestly say that I've never seen that before; I wonder if it was a 'NI thing'?

[RUCAWO]

That's on a Benson cab last year ,the same was on 218 at Aldergrove in 2009.

[RUCAWO]

First production model of 214.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0213.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0212.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0211.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0210.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0209.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0208.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0206.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0205.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0204.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v331/sniperUK/Walkarounds/IMG_0203.jpg

[NutLoose]

That really is impressive.

[Fareastdriver]

I'm impessed as well. I will admit loss of memory as to whether we had pilot's breast plates in 1972 but for choice we would fly in flak jackets until told otherwise.
Cannot wait until it comes out.

[lsh]

Looks pretty good.

I do not think the throttle protection plate arrived until the 80's?
(Was fitted after the DB birdstrike or maybe the ML wirestrike - but I think that one was a vertical reinforcement bar either side?)

lsh
:E

[teeteringhead]

Certainly flak jackets not breast plates for pilots in 1972. Not 100% sure about crewmen, but I think the same.

[Motleycallsign]

We certainly had Flak jackets in '72, I used to carry 2 - one to wear and one to kneel on, I also had the metal chocks in front of me at times - that was on walter wessex mind!

[teeteringhead]

Shouldn't there be one to sit on too!!:eek:

[charliegolf]

Shouldn't there be one to sit on too!!

No, that's what the nav bag was for!

CG

[206Fan]

From a civilian perspective, I took these shots back in 05/06 before the military pulled out of NI.

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/P1010007.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/P1010008.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/P1010009.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1448.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1449.jpg

[206Fan]

The photos were taken on different cameras so I apologize for the quality!

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1644.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/PumainSouthArmagh.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1652.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1656.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_24581.jpg

[206Fan]

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1894.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1895.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1885.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1897.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1892.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1880.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1903.jpg

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_1905.jpg

[206Fan]

Jonesborough mountain base being dismantled!

(1rst April 2006)!

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_21201.jpg

(10th April 2006)!

http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee181/Davy_032/IMG_21331.jpg

[teeteringhead]

"..... and trips to Jonesborough, that give us all the sh!tes........." ;)

[206Fan]

Teet,

That day I shot the Chinook's it was a Sunday morning. The military and police were raiding Jonesborough market for the last time. I think they filled the 47s with merchandise in the back, didn't see them slinging anything away. I have to say that day was like having my own personal airshow at the back door!

Good job the windows were double glazed :E

[206Fan]

Seen this posted on the net elsewhere!

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee87/peter24collins/IMG_0020.jpg

[The Helpful Stacker]

A Wessex on Spot 4, those were the days!

My favourite aircraft to work with on a cold, winter's night, what with the handy heater next to the front open line point. The Nightsun brackets made it fun though.:eek:

[teeteringhead]

Ah! the Nitesun brackets!

At one time the posters decided to try and get the "dinosaurs" out of Shawbs and on to 72.

I was doing a night acceptance/theatre conversion on one such, who "had a bad back". Doing the running change on the pan at Aldz, he climbed out and managed to get himself on the ground in the middle of the Nitesun frame! From where his bad back (:rolleyes:) wouldn't let him move!

Got the next pilot in and took off vertically, leaving him on the pan! He returned to Shawbury shortly thereafter.........

[bspatz]

A very minor detail, but as I recall the early metal main rotor blades were fitted with static wicks on the tips which disappeared with the introduction of the plastic blades. They were also prone to disappear in flight and it until one hit a member of the ground crew, nobody realised the number that were being lost and replaced as a routine during the AF. Conservative estimate was enough went missing to carpet most of Southern England!

[Spot 4]

Did someone mention Spot4?

[The Helpful Stacker]

Did someone mention Spot4?

Only if you are the same one who has seen a few thousand pairs of boots (and a similar volume of Avtur in litres) all over it.

[Spot 4]

We are talking about the same Spot 4. It would be fair to say I have been in said boots once or twice and worn gloves that stink of AvTur on occasion, although aviation fuel was not my day job.

[huge72]

Must admit I've been in those boots too and as for the smell of Avtur an ever present aroma!!! If you sat in my seat you also had back covered in OX38. After all the Wessex and Spot 4 became my second home on and off from 1980 to 1992.

[UniformNovemberIndia]

Hey guys, I’m a new member here and only registered to comment on this thread which I came across through Google, whilst researching FOBs and barracks*. I’m a civilian who grew up in S. Aramgh, meaning no disrespect whatsoever I’m probably young (26) by comparison to some of the veteran servicemen who have posted here. Before I go on I'd like to say thanks to all of you for your service.

I grew up ~4-5 miles from Glenanne in a small town land near Mowhan, and we lived ½ mile from a large field which some of you fine pilots occasionally landed in to either drop off or lift foot patrols. Later, when we moved in the early 00’s, I watched and listened to many a take-off and descent into Drumadd as our elevated position looks directly across at the back of the hill which the barracks site is behind.

It’s been fascinating to read this thread and hear some of the stories that have been shared about your time serving here, as well as seeing some brilliant photos. Particularly impressed by the contributions made by Phamous; some of those shots are both historically fascinating and technically excellent! I’m glad to read that it wasn’t all doom and gloom for you guys during tours on the Emerald Isle, despite the seriousness of the conflict outside the OP walls.

I have very little military background; Dad was UDR reserve, stationed at Glenanne through the 70’s and I had a couple of uncles in the RUC, one of whom sadly did not survive the troubles, being shot in Armagh whilst off duty.
I had a few questions which I’m hoping someone wouldn’t mind answering. I apologize in advance for the apparent stupidity of them; I’m simply not familiar with some of the terms you guys have used throughout the thread, mainly in reference to locations, and curiosity has got the better of me.



First and foremost, what does SHFNI stand for?
TSW?
TWA?
Ally Pally? (I’m assuming a location nicknamed for Alexandra Palace but obviously don’t know where)
Where is R850? I presume Bessbrook Mill from some comments and photos here but am not sure.
V813?
Y453?
Helidet?


There were others I wanted to ask about as well, but I've forgotten them in the process of registering!

*What got me interested in this was seeing that Drumadd has recently been re-developed as Armagh Business Park. I do some work for businesses in the adjacent Hamiltonsbawn Rd Ind Estate and took a drive through Drumadd recently after a site visit. Despite having been a civvy guest on the SAT range up there a couple of nights when I was younger, it’s interesting to see the “other side of the fence” in daylight and have a chance to drive round the surviving buildings. They have made industrial units and dwellings out of everything from the electrical house to the vehicle shed! The (big green) hangar is still fenced off though, despite the developer having bought the whole site. I wonder if they’re keeping it for themselves, to use as equipment/vehicle storage or something along those lines. I’m actually giving some thought to renting a unit at Drumadd to build a bigger workshop & store in. I’m a freelance Electronic Engineer, and have completely outgrown my <200’ sq space at home!

[NutLoose]

Support Helicopter Flight Northern Ireland

Tactical Supply Wing as in refuelling out in the field

Helicopter Detachment


bases see

http://www.sinnfein.org/bmgii/barmy.html

[Fareastdriver]

UNI.

I wouldn't worry. I flew in Northern Ireland on and off for six years and I didn't know what the abbreviations were.

[Haraka]

I wouldn't worry. I flew in Northern Ireland on and off for six years and I didn't know what the abbreviations were.

and my lot (next to you ) aren't even mentioned, thank goodness .....

[The Helpful Stacker]

TSW? = Tactical Supply Wing. The adonis-like elite of the RAF supply trade without whom helicopter operations in NI would have ground to a halt.

TWA? = Teeny Weenie Airways. A nickname for the Army Air Corps, NI's premier post and pizza delivery system during Op Banner. Nicknames used to describe the other services include 'Crab Air' for the Royal Air Force and 'Junglies' or 'WAFU' (Wet And F@#$ing Useless) for the Fleet Air Arm.

[Marly Lite]

R850 - Bessbrook
Y453 - Dungannon
V813 - Aldergrove (I stand to be corrected here, been a while!)

[charliegolf]

SHFNI: Support Helicopter Flight Northern Ireland

Well flippin' 'eck! I always thought the F stood for Force.

Lifelong learning- something new everyday. :ok:

CG

[NutLoose]

Actually it probably is force lol... I was having a brain dump when typing.

[UniformNovemberIndia]

Thanks all, most of those seem so obvious now that you've told me! There's a good chance someone here flew Dad out of BBK and Drumadd on a few occasions, for foot patrols in S.Armagh or duty in Glenanne. Can anyone shed any light on why their company would have been flown from BBK? He doesn't remember when it was and says they probably didn't even know why at the time.

[ShyTorque]

UNI,

I see that you're from Glenanne. If I said that 31st May 1991 was a night I won't forget in a hurry (and wouldn't want to happen again), you would probably know what I meant.

[UniformNovemberIndia]

I certainly would, ShyTorque. Were you on station at the time? We were just talking about that tonight amid discussions regarding BBK. The folks had just put my older brother and I to bed a couple of hours earlier, Mum was in the kitchen and Dad was lying on his stomach, on the sofa in the living room, leafing though an AutoTrader of all things (mechanic by trade and total gear head, rubbed off on me too ;)) when she went up. He felt it rumble the foundations of the house and they both ran down the hall to make sure my brother and I were all right. I was only 3 at the time so have no recollection of it, but both of my folks and my brother (who would have been 8) remember it vividly. Because of the sheer strength of the shock wave, Mum initially thought it was much closer i.e. in the garage! Dangerous times... Other than sporadic dissident activity and stubborn, patchy support for them, I am very thankful that we now live in a province vastly different from how it was then.

[Fareastdriver]

SHFNI: Support Helicopter Flight Northern Ireland
Well flippin' 'eck! I always thought the F stood for Force.


I thought it was SHDNI, for detachment.

[ShyTorque]

Quote:
SHFNI: Support Helicopter Flight Northern Ireland
I thought it was SHDNI, for detachment.

In your time, it was a detachment.

In later years it was never publicised that the largest squadron the RAF had (by a long chalk) was the SH Force, actually based in NI.

Definitely not a detachment in that time.

[Lingo Dan]

I joined 72 about the same time as the "man with bad back/night sun bracket" event - but fortunately survived a full tour there.

It was amusing to note that below the title of the Auth Sheet folder, "Support Helicopter Force Northern Ireland", some wag had appended the words
"And may the Force be with you!"

BTW, I think I have identified "Teeteringhead!" Hope all is well!

[Tiger Tales]

To add to the confusion, it became Joint Helicopter Force Northern Ireland JHF(NI)

[NutLoose]

You mean this one ShyTorque, taken by me when they were evicted from Odiham :E

http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff321/taylortony/Aviation/RAF/72departingcopy.jpg

[teeteringhead]

Lingo Dan BTW, I think I have identified "Teeteringhead!" Hope all is well! ... the more I post, I guess the more clues I leave .....

....... and all is indeed well thanks! ;)

[ricardian]

After 40 years a 73 year old British army veteran (a grandfather) is sitting in a Northern Ireland PSNI cell facing a charge of murder. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/northernireland/11563129/Retired-British-soldier-in-court-over-1974-Northern-Ireland-shooting.html)
Many of the press corps are not interested in the story as there is an election and a Royal Baby due. This veteran requires support. Please help to bring this to the notice of others.

[NutLoose]

Yes I was reading it earlier, what peeves me is we gave virtually immunity to terrorists and then you read this sh*te

[huge72]

Sad news, they will be pulling the Bloody Sunday Vets next!

[Rotate too late]

And yet Hyde park went unpunished just because of a letter. Gotta love selective justice, he's in his seventies for goodness sake.

[wokkamate]

Me too Plastic Cab Driver...we must know each other! Took our weapons off the cab just in case they came through/over the wire. I was LHS on Bertie's cab. ;)

So many happy memories, riding my bike through the newly decorated mess....then piling into the thorny bushes at the 90 left by the rugby club, en route to the kebab van by the main gate (with a Flt Cdr on pillion!), flying with Hi Hi at FL135 over Belfast, getting tingly lips... Flying '1st class' to Fermanagh, coffee and a cigarette with the sun setting in front of us, beautiful. Spotting the nudists wigwam on Lower Lough Erne, endless Pimms parties on the patio, proper good piss ups and some great mates. Shame it is no more really!

[Wander00]

The sh1te that committed the Hyde Park bombing go free, and then this. Something in the system needs a shake somewhere. And so called IRA, sorry Sinn Fein, politicians get what MT called the "oxygen of publicity". There seem two systems of "law|" operating somehow.

[inputshaft]

Does anybody have access to the NVG video that was done by a pilot and nav on 72 in the mid-nineties? Mainly Wessex ops from Y453, with a bit of Puma stuff as well, if I remember correctly.

I used to have a hard copy, but it's disappeared over the years. If you could point me to anywhere it might be on-line, or PM me if you could forward a private electronic copy, it would be much appreciated.

PB

[Grob Driver]

Hello,

I wonder if anyone can help me?... I'm trying to confirm the identity of this Wessex 'D'. The photo is taken in Northern Ireland in 1987. I believe that this aircraft was hit by small arms fire in around April 87, though I cant be sure of the dates.

Many thanks

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3743/19419764276_2a7daa15c9_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/vA4nm1)

[Tiger_mate]

According to the book RAF Rotors published in 1996, RAF Wessex HC2 XT671 wore 'D' on 72 Sqn.

[edwardspannerhands]

Would anyone happen to have any aerial photos of the main helipads at BBK? Preferably early 90's before it was closed. I've tried Google but none show the complete layout.

And how many spots were on the main pad, (I.e not down in the dip or in the garden area) was it 7, 8 or 9?

Hoping to construct a scale model hence the request / question.

Thanks in advance

ES

[jonw66]

Hi Edward
If you go back through this wonderful thread there are lots of pictures of Bessbrook then and now.
I'm sure you'll find what you require.
See you in the Swift.
John

[diginagain]

There are a few in the Arrse gallery, such as:

BBK (http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/gallery/photos/bessbrook-mill.4942/)

and

this one (http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/gallery/photos/bessbrook-mill-hls.8794/)

and

this one too. (http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/gallery/photos/bessbrook.8617/)

[NutLoose]

For all you Wessex fans, Fly have released a 1/32 scale HC2 and HU5 kit. the rotor diameter spread will be about 21 inches, but just look at it... Drool...... at last a decent Wessex model


http://files.fly814.cz/200011694-6eb5570a93-public/DSC03627.JPG

http://files.fly814.cz/200011703-21e0622db9-public/wessex_(6).jpg

more here
http://www.fly814.cz/products/a32010/#dekal001-jpg

http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?search_direction=asc&search=wessex&scale_id=953

[The Helpful Stacker]

For all you Wessex fans, Fly have released a 1/32 scale HC2 and HU5 kit. the rotor diameter spread will be about 21 inches, but just look at it... Drool...... at last a decent Wessex model


http://files.fly814.cz/200011694-6eb5570a93-public/DSC03627.JPG

http://files.fly814.cz/200011703-21e0622db9-public/wessex_(6).jpg

more here
32010 Westland Wessexx HC.2 :: Fly (http://www.fly814.cz/products/a32010/#dekal001-jpg)

Hannants - Plastic model kits and accessories (http://www.hannants.co.uk/search/?search_direction=asc&search=wessex&scale_id=953)

Are they going to include a 1/32 scale Wing Mong struggling to pull an open line nozzle and semi-rigid hose through the Nitesun bracket for total authenticity?;)

[WASALOADIE]

Excellent! just pre- ordered one

[ThirtytwokayBox]

That's an awesome looking model. It needs the door armour, a bloody gpmg, ditch the flot gear (excuse the pun) and add a few house brick sized dints along the fuselage for street cred. Great memories! :ok:

[klingonbc]

This model looks pretty damn good. If I may add some more observations. As TB has elluded - none of 72 Sqn's aircraft had floatation gear except for the single ex- SAR cab (I think it was either S or O - must check m'logbook) used for the V813 Stby SAR role and that aircraft never had the AAR47 MAWS. I think the SH Wessex had only one vertical aerial on the nose (Cougar 2 I think) whereas the SAR cab had those 2 for another type of radio fit. The nightsun tripod had a box at the end sitting above the actual searchlight. The oleo leg needs a folding step about half way up. That was really useful getting in and out with the Nightsun fitted and helped you avoid stepping on the TIWAS Refueller's head as he struggled to do the refuel through the nightsun mount after shutdown! An M130 flare dispenser (although rarely fitted in NI) would be to the bottom rear of the cabin door. And as for the cockpit armour, the titanium fold down plate needed a rubber stop on the side of the aircraft to stop it damaging the airframe. Unless the nightsun was fitted then it rested on the upper nightsun arm. Sorry, this kind of memory detail only comes from a sad old git's long career flying such a "Fine Girl." Loved flying her and operating with the best crewmen and fellow front seaters over many long years. Now only memories. I'll see if I can recall some more to keep this thread going. How about 72 Sqn's SAR exploits - in the 1980s we rescued more people in one day than the whole of the SAR force had in the year! Next time maybe - but I may need some help recalling the detail.
KBC

[Arkroyal]

Just been listening to the radio 2 programme about John Lennon's last day.

Bear with me, but on the morning of 9th Dec 1980 I was awoken by that lovely batlady Mrs S with a cup of tea. May have had a pint or two too many pints of Smithwicks the night before, but I was totally confused by her telling me in her broad Belfast accent that 'That poor Mr Lenin' s been shot'.

'He's been dead since 1924' I replied to her utter confusion.

Some time after breakfast the truth dawned.

Same day my wife called from Somerset wondering why someone bad sent her flowers.

It was our first wedding anniversary. She had forgotten.

Sometimes you wonder if it's you that's lost the plot, or the rest of the world.

[Wander00]

Arkroyal - reminds me of an OC Ops at Wyton, presented on waking with an envelope obviously containing a card - "Lovely, Dear, but it's not my birthday".


"No" responded Mrs OC Ops, "Bur it is your adjectival wedding anniversary!"

[dragartist]

Edward,
You were asking about photos of Besbrook: I came across a rather nice painting showing a Wessex and Gazelle on the pan. The painting is by David Rowlands and looks to be dated March 89. It's in a collection of paintings in the Westland centenary book. (the Art of flight) I am told the book can be bought via the big river with all proceeds to charity. £10 well spent. A few pages on there is a painting of a Gazelle over the Harland and Wolf cranes. Never knew Gazelle carried Nitesun although we did a few funny fits in the 80s. Those with a bent for aviation art or history may be interested.

[Tiger_mate]

The 'Mill' in the early noughties:
http://home.btconnect.com/aeroartist/A2puma.jpg

[NutLoose]

May be of interest

Report - - Killymeal House Army Barracks, Dungannon, Northern Ireland (April 2015) | 28DaysLater.co.uk (http://www.28dayslater.co.uk/killymeal-house-army-barracks-dungannon-northern-ireland-april-2015.t95964#post-1087389)

[jonw66]

Anybody got pics of the Swift today would be interesting.
Many a good night Nutty.

[zic]

What's the story behind the RWY 72 markings?

[teeteringhead]

What's the story behind the RWY 72 markings?
zic

The mighty No 72 (Basutoland!) Squadron of the RAF flew Wessex helicopters (twin turbine S-58s - ish) in the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland from 1969 'til the "Noughties", almost certainly the longest continuous operational service by any RAF Sqn, ever.

Dungannon was one of several FOBs that were their/our "second home when we are in NI" to quote the song..........

Sic transit gloria mundi...... Ozymandias comes to mind ....... :(

[ShyTorque]

I wish I'd taken a photo of the top of the fence at Dungannon, where two chunks were missing. Both gaps had been appended with the names of the guilty pilots who had dragged their tail wheel through, rather than over.

Teeters, wasn't 72 also the largest squadron the RAF ever had? During my time on attachment it must have been at least twice as large as the other squadrons I had ever known about.

[lsh]

Luckily, it is not possible to write on a hedge.
If it was there would be one with my name on it.
It was put down to "Operating Hazard" - Thanks Boss!

lsh
:E

[ShyTorque]

One advantage of flying a type with no tailwheel! :p

But I did once land at a hotel and after the pax had departed noticed the tail rotor was in a bush!

[teeteringhead]

Shy
Teeters, wasn't 72 also the largest squadron the RAF ever had? It was indeed - when Santini was boss - before the pussycat sqn arrived - they had 3 types - Wessi, Pume and Chinny - all on the same Sqn.

I think there's a picture somewhere earlier in this thread (being a sad bloke with nothing better to do on Boxing Day, I might look for it!)

[NutLoose]

I seem to remember them having more Wessex than the alphabet had letters.

[jonw66]

There were 25 Wessex on strength 90-92 Foxtrot was an ex SAR cab that was being updated with a jammer Cougar etc. at the time Bravo had an incident at Bishops Court.
Normally 4 at Benson on minor/major.

[NutLoose]

I was thinking mid 70's to 80's

[jonw66]

Yes I was thinking earlier it may have been different old drivers may remember a different situation.
Best
Jon

[Old-Duffer]

Of course TTH, if you've nothing better to do on Boxing Day, you could always start writing an account of RAF SH in the Troubles. A period of RAF history which seems to have missed out on its share of publicity.

Old Duffer

[Evalu8ter]

O-D,
Indeed, though perhaps HMSO could commission a second volume of Dowling's book RAF Helicopters: The First Twenty Years: Amazon.co.uk: John Dowling: 9780117727250: Books which, IIRC, ends with the Puma entering service.

That would cover Banner, Corporate, Granby and the early bit of FRY.

[ShyTorque]

... A period of RAF history which seems to have missed out on its share of publicity.

It certainly was - the term "Army helicopter" was always used in the media, even when the helicopter parked in the immediate background had the words "Royal Air Force" emblazoned on it. Seems that successive governments found it terribly embarrassing that the RAF was involved in a terrorist war on its own soil.

[Chinny Crewman]

Anybody got pics of the Swift today would be interesting.

Sadly demolished and is now parking spaces!

[Haraka]

A period of RAF history which seems to have missed out on its share of publicity

Yup, Rotorcraft , Rocks and RIC.

Just realised that it is 40 years to the week since I finally left the Province.

"NFINI,GSM,GOZOMEE!"

[teeteringhead]

It certainly was - the term "Army helicopter" was always used in the media, even when the helicopter parked in the immediate background had the words "Royal Air Force" emblazoned on it. Seems that successive governments found it terribly embarrassing that the RAF was involved in a terrorist war on its own soil. Exactly so Shy we could never understand that either. We also kind of assume that the Army Council (of the IRA) probably had access to Janes, or at least the "Boys Book of Helicopters".

But there was - and still is - an element of denial or embarrassment about Op BANNER, and all three services who were involved. One hates to play "Top Trumps" with casualties, but a comparison between NI and Iraq/Afghan could be instructive .............

O-D why am I not surprised by your suggestion! Perhaps when I retire ;) - and we could start with the first Wessex landing in NI in 1969, flown by one who became a 3 -star knight. And he shouldn't have landed first, he wasn't the formation leader ........:ok:

[Old-Duffer]

TTH,

'When you retire' - surely not already!!!!!!!!!!!

I propose, that you propose, to the committee of the RAF Historical Society that they do a one day seminar on the air force in Northern Ireland. However, by time we get to the mighty Wessex, David Toon had already commanded a squadron of Sycamores there in the late 1950s or so.

Anyway, I commend 'Military Aviation in Northern Ireland' and 'Sycamores over Ulster' to you to start your research.

Old Duffer

[Davef68]

Exactly so Shy we could never understand that either.


Because the media in general are not interested in the military, and a big green(ish) helicopter carrying soldiers must be an 'army' helicopter (Use of small 'a' deliberate), in the same way a serviceman with a camouflage suit and a rifle must be a 'soldier'.

[Geriaviator]

You may find that all Press liaison came through Army PR at Lisburn and the media, being simple souls happy to hear 'Shock swoop seizing terror gang' or whatever, simply assumed that it was an Army operation. Despite the Army spindoctor doubtless doing his best to highlight the contribution of you Boys in Blue :rolleyes:

[huge72]

With the demise of 18 Sqn in Germany in 1980 their Wessex returned to UK. Some went to the SAR force and some came to us on 72. So for a while we had a full alphabet AA to AZ plus I believe 4 with Bravo codes so 30 on strength. This lasted until the Squadron moved to NI from Benson. Firstly 5 were flown to Akrotiri to replace the ex Navy HU5s and our fleet was cut as at that point the Navy were still in NI. It was about the time of our move that we went to single letter codes on the aircraft sides and only during the Falklands when all Navy Cabs were removed did we start to get replacement cabs. Another point ref the playing down of our involvement in NI a little known fact is that we suffered more Battle Damage to our Wessex in NI during the Falklands period than 847 that was formed with stored HU5s and took our place down south after our brief sojourn back to Benson on what for us turned out to be OP Headless Chicken.

[teeteringhead]

O-D

One also understands that the Sycamores had the right of "hot pursuit" across the border into the Land of Green 'Phone Boxes........

That would have been useful more recently.....

[Edited to add] on further reflection, I also believe they had - how shall we say - much less restrictive ROE than latterly!

(All well before my time - but I heard it from J*e W*****t, who was one of the Trg Offs when I was first on 72.....

[Fareastdriver]

You could do REAL torque turns in a Sycamore.

[ShyTorque]

One also understands that the Sycamores had the right of "hot pursuit" across the border into the Land of Green 'Phone Boxes........


This right was given back in the early 90s. For about three weeks, probably until the military lawyers heard about it, when it was hastily rescinded.

[NutLoose]

The sycamore that used to stand outside the OCU was in Taff Walkers logbooks, the Wessex instructor on the OCU.

[Fareastdriver]

The sycamore that used to stand outside the OCU

IIRC that one was unusual because it had two collectives as opposed to the single collective in the middle. Both twist grips were in line with the collective whereas on the single collective the throttle was cranked so as to be at right angles across the cockpit..

All the Sycamores I flew had a single collective. In the RHS one had one's hand on top turning the throttle forward to increase power and in the LHS one had their hand underneath pulling the palm back to increase power. Irrespective of which seat one occupied the hand action tied in with raising and lowering the collective.

No hydraulics; big trim wheels that tensioned feel springs to offload the forces. 26 (?) pints of water-meth in a tank under the cockpit floor that could be pumped back to the pylon to control CofG and it would cruise, hands off, at 110 knots.

They have it easy nowadays.

[RUCAWO]

Quick question, does anyone have a good , clear photo of the specially painted door that was on the 72 Sqn Wessex XV721 in the 1999-2001 timeframe , I have pics of it at RIAT but none clear enough to make out the writing.

[Jackw106]

Interesting talk by John Adair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5rl_2ECmoY

[Flickhammer]

Having read much of this thread I reflected on my time on 72 Back in 90/91 working in those freezing, drafty and crammed (listed) hangars. Trying to keep a fleet of equally ancient Wessex in a flying condition. Followed by a happy summer running a shift on the flight line where it struck me the division between US (ground crew) v Them (air crew) was greater than any other squadron I had been on (and that includes 617).
Other observations:

Ancient Wessex, and its crew, often consisted of:
Captain, Elderly (Bitter) Sqn ldr.
Co pilot, long in the tooth Flt Lt.
Loadmaster ( Yes!Loadmaster, there is no crewman brevet) an even more elderly (Invariably bitter) Warrant officer.
The task! Deliver a 20 year old lance corporal and his squad of teenagers to where the real job was to be done, or deliver a load of toilet paper to a fob and take out the crap.

It did not matter what your previous experience was, if it was not rotary wing your opinion did not matter.

If you were rotary wing but not ex SAR your opinion did not matter.

Only aircrew need have any knowledge of what the Squadron was doing, ie motivation.

Any bites?

[Spot 4]

It is 'aircrew' not air crew just as it is groundcrew.

It is 'Air Loadmaster' not Loadmaster; though I grant you the brevet is/was 'LM', and latterly 'RAF' with a crown.

There is no such thing as an aircrew Warrant Officer in the RAF. They are Master Aircrew unless of a suitable vintage to be Master Air Loadmaster - and there cannot be many of those still serving.

I know of a Combat Ready check not getting as far as engine start because the pilot did not know the name of the groundcrew standing outside.

Apart from that:- I'll have a beer as you are clearly already pi**ed!
First post on Pprune as well - tosser.

90/91 pity you were not out in the heat of the desert being injected with all sorts of concoctions; at least then you would have something to whinge about.

[Stupidbutsaveable]

Having read much of this thread I reflected on my time on 72 Back in 90/91 working in those freezing, drafty and crammed (listed) hangars. Trying to keep a fleet of equally ancient Wessex in a flying condition. Followed by a happy summer running a shift on the flight line where it struck me the division between US (ground crew) v Them (air crew) was greater than any other squadron I had been on (and that includes 617).
Other observations:

Ancient Wessex, and its crew, often consisted of:
Captain, Elderly (Bitter) Sqn ldr.
Co pilot, long in the tooth Flt Lt.
Loadmaster ( Yes!Loadmaster, there is no crewman brevet) an even more elderly (Invariably bitter) Warrant officer.
The task! Deliver a 20 year old lance corporal and his squad of teenagers to where the real job was to be done, or deliver a load of toilet paper to a fob and take out the crap.

It did not matter what your previous experience was, if it was not rotary wing your opinion did not matter.

If you were rotary wing but not ex SAR your opinion did not matter.

Only aircrew need have any knowledge of what the Squadron was doing, ie motivation.

Any bites?

I guess I'm imagining all those nights in the Swift then, and the queue of pilot and flying officers signing the 700 under the close supervision of Chiefs still fondly remembered so many years later. Happily, my memories are the polar opposite of yours.

[Hueymeister]

You must have been very unhappy Flick..
I was there 90-93 as a wet-behind-the-ears PO, first tourist who was guided and tutored by all across the rank spectrum. I met the likes of the sadly late Wally Wilson and Paul Green there who went out of their way to show us young stick monkeys how to properly interact and respect ALL on 72, regardless of rank or trade. Those were defining times of my burgeoning SH career..

[charliegolf]

and the queue of pilot and flying officers signing the 700 under the close supervision of Chiefs

Didn't FOLA originate on 72? Flick, the clue is in the acronym.

CG

[Floppy Link]

...Elderly...long in the tooth...even more elderly...

Hueymeister, what was the average age of your crew on that Y453 Christmas with Bertie and the Gangster?

[NutLoose]

Having read much of this thread I reflected on my time on 72 Back in 90/91 working in those freezing, drafty and crammed (listed) hangarsEeeeeeeeee Luxury lad, I was on 'T OCU and none of those fancy brik sh+thouse's you worked in, ours was made 'o tin lad.
Nay 'twere bad, I 'ad 't run gauntlet of weather to just get from crewroom 't hangar, nay luxury of a built in 't hangar crewroom for us.

Eeeeeee, you 'ad it lucky Lad..

[engoal]

You must have been very unhappy Flick..
I was there 90-93 as a wet-behind-the-ears PO, first tourist who was guided and tutored by all across the rank spectrum. I met the likes of the sadly late Wally Wilson and Paul Green there who went out of their way to show us young stick monkeys how to properly interact and respect ALL on 72, regardless of rank or trade. Those were defining times of my burgeoning SH career..
Wally was still there, and Paul had just returned from HK, when I rocked up as a first tour JEngO in 1997, and they were both legends in every way.

[huge72]

Flick you ask for ''bites'' well all I can say is you must have been very unhappy with your posting for some reason that you do not elude to. I served 4 tours on 72, including the time you were there. At no time during those times do I recall the feeling that you have and never received anything but true friendship and respect between those of us that flew and those who didn't whether engineers, stores or admin. I served with both of the two venerable gentlemen mentioned both in UK and Hong Kong and although I could not attend Wally's funeral I was certainly at Paul's which was attend by aircrew and groundcrew alike, such was the respect he commanded.
Your comment about SAR also doesn't ring true as the majority of the aircrew were SH through and through, SAR was our secondary role although it did demand a priority when called for. As for elderly Warrant Officers, I was a Master when I departed before Christmas 91 to set up 60 Sqn at Benson at the grand old age of 38. If you truly did find it bad well maybe if you join the 72 Association, you might find it is one of the most successful of the Sqn associations consisting as it does of both aircrew and groundcrew alike.

[jayteeto]

I did a tour as a JT and later as a pilot. On duty I was Sir and in the bar my old shiftmates called me John (unless the boss was there). We are all still Facebook friends now. Flick, I’m really sorry that you experienced what you did, you should get to an association do to see if it has changed.

[Hueymeister]

Hueymeister, what was the average age of your crew on that Y453 Christmas with Bertie and the Gangster?

I am fairly sure it was 20..

[November4]

https://www.crumlinroadgaol.com/latest-news/wessex-helicopter-touchdown-at-crumlin-road-gaol/Yesterday, Crumlin Road Gaol took delivery of a decommissioned Westland Wessex helicopter from RAF Aldergrove. The Wessex XR 529 ‘ECHO’ will be the focal point of a new tour being launched at the 5 star visitor attraction in 2019.Carefully guided into placed beside the Sanger at D Wing the Westland Wessex HC Mk2 Helicopter will be on display to visitors. It will give them an insight into the happenings during the conflict in Northern Ireland and tell the story which the British Army and RAF played both at the jail and in the wider community.Once an iconic feature of the skyline in Northern Ireland the Westland Wessex XR 529 ‘ECHO’ was part of a batch of 30 HC2s built by Westland Aircraft Ltd. They were operated by 72 Squadron at RAF Aldergrove until 2002. 72 Squadron served in an Army support role and the Wessex was used as troop carrier for up to 16 passengers. XR 529 ‘ECHO’ was decommissioned and displayed as the RAF Aldergrove Gate Guardian on 16th May 2003.Phelim Devlin, Director at Crumlin Road Gaol commented “After several months of planning we are excited to finally see the Wessex arrive at Crumlin Road Gaol. The Wessex Helicopter will play an important part in the next phase of development at the jail.”He continued “2019 will see the launch of a brand new tour at Crumlin Road Gaol which will cover all aspects of the more recent history here at this site and in the local area including the insights from security services, loyalists and republicans sides. This tour will provide an enhanced visitor experience at our 5 star visitor attraction in addition to contributing and enriching the growing tourism industry here in Belfast.”RAF Northern Ireland Community Relations Officer Wing Commander Tara Scott said: “At the end of the Royal Air Force’s centenary year, we are pleased that the Wessex is moving to a new home where it will be on display to the public. Visitors will have the opportunity to learn the history of a helicopter that served the RAF for over 40 years from 1961 to 2002 including in a search and rescue role.”Crumlin Road Gaol is one of Belfast’s leading visitor attractions and since opening it has welcomed more than 900,000 visitors. Known as ‘The Crum’ by locals the prison was built in 1845 and closed in 1996. After extensive renovations the gaol re-opened as a visitor attraction and conference centre in 2012. Today the attraction offers guided tours daily from 10am – 4.30pm which allows the public to explore within the walls and hear the history of the prison and its inmates. The site also boasts a quirky restaurant, Cuffs Bar and Grill, The Crum coffee shop and hosts #LiveAtTheCrum concert nights on a regular basis.

[teeteringhead]

Landed in Crumlin Road gaol a few times in the Mighty Wessex in the early 70s, when we were flying internees about. Must check the logbook to see if any of my trips were in 529.

Knowing me, I've probably still got the maps somewhere with the "Holidaymakers" routes marked on them. Crumlin Road, Ballyrkinler, The Kesh and Magilligan. And of course, not forgetting HMS Maidstone alongside at Belfast........

Maybe the Museum would like the maps if I find them!

[Fareastdriver]

Crumlin Road, Ballyrkinler, The Kesh and Magilligan. And of course, not forgetting HMS Maidstone alongside at Belfast........

I only saw then at night. 50 ft./90 knots is what the IR scanner wanted.

[Arkroyal]

Ta for remembering 845 Naval Air Squadron then!
Mind you...... We did remove the ‘Royal Navy’ from our fuselages for some reason!

[charliegolf]

I only saw then at night. 50 ft./90 knots is what the IR scanner wanted.

Me too! I'd have trouble recognising NI in the daytime!

CG

[teeteringhead]

We did remove the ‘Royal Navy’ from our fuselages for some reason! We still had Royal Air Force on ours - although they were all "giant Army choppers" to the meeja. Did they not think that the IRA might have access to Janes - or at least I-Spy Helicopters!

The only time I recall "Royal Navy" being removed/obscured from a Wessex 5 was the one that "fell over" at Otterburn on Sky Warrior in '72. It was trucked out on a RAF Queen Mary, but - for some reason (!!) - hid its provenance.........

[9BIT]

It’s been 25 years now, anyone going to own up as the “Phantom Cr@pper”, the one that adorned Mr Blobby’s staff car with a new bonnet mascot.

[Mushroom_2]

Me too! I'd have trouble recognising NI in the daytime!

CG

I used to go back to bed after one of those trips, wake up a few hours later and wonder did if I really did fly or was it a dream.

[Haraka]

The biggest cheer I ever got in Aldergrove Mess bar was once looking out of the window and cancelling that night's expedition.

[teeteringhead]

It’s been 25 years now, anyone going to own up as the “Phantom Cr@pper”, the one that adorned Mr Blobby’s staff car with a new bonnet mascot. I recall overhearing Mr B's rant to OC Police, demanding DNA testing of all personnel on "the other Sqn".

OC Police replies : "What makes you think it was the other Sqn?????"

Oh how I larfed (silently of course).

(Forensic question: Does poo have DNA? Technically it's never been inside the body, only in the alimentary canal, which is - ahem - open at both ends.)

[Edited to add:] I suppose if the Chalfonts were bleeding there would be some blood; ergo DNA.......

[diginagain]

(Forensic question: Does poo have DNA? Technically it's never been inside the body, only in the alimentary canal, which is - ahem - open at both ends.)

[Edited to add:] I suppose if the Chalfonts were bleeding there would be some blood; ergo DNA.......
If it helps, the chances of finding enough DNA in urine to identify the previous owner are slim to none.

[NutLoose]

Ta for remembering 845 Naval Air Squadron then!
Mind you...... We did remove the ‘Royal Navy’ from our fuselages for some reason!

Yup, we named the cat Nelson in your honour..

[NutLoose]

Nice to see a well looked after Wessex

https://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=84619&sid=9b2be4c2717cfdc166dcf50d4c48bfe6

[NIREP reader]

Hi all,

I’m about to start a 1/32 Revell Puma and I’m planning on a NI rolled cab in the Green/Grey/black scheme in the 80’s. I am inclined to do a P2 cab with the GPMG and Nitesun fitted. I have a few questions but cannot find any info out there, but was advised to look at this forum and read this thread and ask accordingly.

Does anybody have any photo’s of the armoured seats that were fitted when the cab arrived in the province?

How many aircrew would routinely fly in the cab on ops?

There will be more questions I suspect as I like to get these details correct.

great recollections and it’s made me laugh over the couple of days it’s taken me to read all these pages. I’m ex-RAF and served at Aldergrove 88-91, 92-95 & 98-01.

Steve.

[NutLoose]

Is that the old Puma in the civi scheme on the box lid or the later kit, I ask as the later on the BGS is improved over the original with a new load pole etc and bar the decals has all the parts to do the orignal cab plus it has the option of the later intakes.

useful link

Matchbox 1/32nd Puma (http://tedtaylor.hobbyvista.com/72-matchbox-puma/page-72.html)

https://steemit.com/planes/@crypto-believer1/photoblog-9-visit-to-raf-aldergrove


GMPG Mounting

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234995771-puma-gpmg-and-mount/

https://www.ulsteraviationsociety.org/puma-helicopter-hc1

Wasn't the pilots armour a strap on chest plate that curved around the torso?

second thoughts is this them?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Puma-Aircraft-Helicopter-Pilot-Armoured-Bullet-Proof-Seats-Garden-2-sets-left-/183965897720

[NIREP reader]

Thanks for replying Nutloose.

The kit I have is indeed the later kit in the tiger scheme, not seen very often nowadays so grabbed it when I found one a few years ago.

The Ulster Aviation is a good find thank you and the Britmodeller again cheers.

i have been informed the Seats were fitted when the cab arrived. I also found those seats but they look handed as the starboard shoulder is bigger than the port side. Are they all right hand seats or do those seats do both positions?

[mole man]

Just checked Log Book 72 Sqn 1978-80 XR 520 / 522 / 523 / 524 / 525 and XR 528 240 OCU No XR 529 just for info.

[chopper2004]

Quite a old friends served in NI some AAC, RAF SHF and even relatives in the FAA who did a tour in NI with CHF. Anyhow was going through my photo archive and came across my North Weald air show collection from two decades ago and saw 72 Sqn mount there. https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1429/325346465_3286908511569342_627918920514231566_n_644f327ab28f ae30828b02adcc9ed100e8483e09.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/2000x1504/325371504_878232123217384_5012284722848257991_n_4f5f5a9d6871 cade5f0dac120403a94b8cbae706.jpg

cheers

[JulieAndrews]

if you're making a Puma just ensure it is realistic and you forget to latch the 'wendyhouse' properly.......

[charliegolf]

if you're making a Puma just ensure it is realistic and you forget to latch the 'wendyhouse' properly.......

Bit of a tasteless crack, Julie.

CG

[ShyTorque]

Bit of a tasteless crack, Julie.

CG

They were capable of falling off even when fully latched….one Puma came back “bare backed” having lost the “Wendyhouse” apart from the corner where the latch was….and the correctly fastened latch and pin (and its safety pin).

[ShyTorque]

Just been rereading this very entertaining thread.

Having been on detachment there in 1991, I mainly flew the Puma by night with the 100 gallon ferry tank permanently fitted in the cabin and normally filled right up; we seldom carried more than one passenger in addition to the kit we carried (those who know will understand).

One evening we landed at last light at one of the FOBs, having completed one job (I can’t recall which base it was) and needed refuelling to maximum asap and a crew briefing for a further urgent task. The TSW chap said he was happy to refuel by himself and so we three crew went off to brief. We came back after the briefing to find fuel everywhere and the TSW chap almost in tears and similarly soaked in fuel at the side of the aircraft, leaning on the fuel cap!

The ferry tank had been used to feed the mains on the previous flight. Due to a crew error, (no names mentioned but he was a navigator), the tap on the tank hadn’t been closed after it had drained. The TSW chap unfortunately decided off his own bat to fill the ferry tank first, which wasn’t usual. He therefore inadvertently filled the mains via the ferry tank opening! When he opened the mains cap, the main tank was already bulging full and it blew back at him, with a head of a good metre of Jet fuel above him. He couldn’t get the cap back on fully due to the pressure, so he had to stand holding it on, like the Dutch boy with his finger in the dyke, until we returned about fifteen minutes later. I turned off the ferry tap and we got the cap back on. We sent the TSW chap (who thankfully wasn’t injured, apart from severe loss of composure) off to drain his wellies and get himself sorted. We all stank of jet fuel for the rest of the night.

[Herod]

XR 525 sits proudly on a plinth at the RAF Museum, Midlands. It's last appearance in my logbook: 31st August '70. Border Patrol. A LONG time ago

[EESDL]

I reckon JA has been called worse things!

[Herod]

A question, which may be buried within this thread. On 15th Apr '76, a Wessex landing at Crossmaglen was hit by a RPG, causing substantial damage. This is no longer classified, and appears in the Belfast Telegraph of 18 Jan 2015. It names names, but doesn't give the registration. Can anyone help on this? Rumour has it that it was XR 525, on display at the RAF Museum, Midlands. However, from what I can find, 525 suffered Cat 3 damage in May '75, and did not return to 72 until Aug '76. Thanks to anyone who can help.

[Haraka]

IIRC the RPG 7 round bounced off the step.........