easyJet Pilots Offered Work as Cabin Crew in January

[Alexander de Meerkat]

EasyJet have arranged for CTC to offer some of their flexicrew pilots jobs as cabin crew in January prior to starting again as pilots in February. These are pilots who were originally part of the ATP scheme (self-sponsored pay to fly scheme from 18 months ago). They then worked a further summer with easyJet earlier this year before being kicked out along with the rest of the low-houred pilots from CTC. They will get a couple of weeks training starting next week and then work in January out of Gatwick with HOTAC provided. Money is flat rate £130/rostered day plus payment for 11 days training.

Perhaps it would have been easier to not sack so many real cabin crew on temporary contracts rather than resort to this.

[Dr Eckener]

Adds a whole new meaning to the word 'flexi-crew' :ugh: If this is true it is pathetic. Any further words fail me. :yuk:

[easy]

Errr.....didn't BA set the precedent for this in 2001 when they offered their Oxford cadets jobs as cabin crew?:E

[Wingswinger]

No they didn't. They set the precedent in 1974/75 when a whole crop of Hamble graduates didn't get positions due to problems caused by the oil crisis of that decade. BA subsequently didn't recruit any pilots for over 10 years.

[HundredPercentPlease]

And 1991 (http://www.pprune.org/57538-post21.html) (Gulf War).

[beerdrinker]

It was not just BA cadets being offered jobs as CC. Employed Flight Crew who were stood down were compelled to apply for CC positions and go through the whole selection process. I know of at least one who proudly mounted in his downstairs loo, the rejection letter he had received from CC management!!

[hec7or]

ha ha ha...Britannia did exactly the same in 1991, I was not sure whether to be pleased or disappointed at being rejected by the Cabin Crew recruitment team. I obviously lacked the qualities required to be part time summer cabin crew!!

Didn't stop them making me a TRE though when I finally did join the company! I'm sure there's a moral to this story but I can't quite see it.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Is BALPA due a name change?

BALP and CC and C and DB A?

British Airline Pilots and Cabin Crew and Cleaners and DogsBodies Assoc

[BlueTui]

Nice to know how you see cabin crew Slim Shady, be glad I don't feed and water you:}

[Binder]

Some people just never miss an opportunity to slag off Balpa.

Come on Leo, your turn!

Yawn....

Binder

[FL370 Officeboy]

flybe did this over the summer. The cadets that graduated from the training schools couldn't be offered a pilot position as there weren't any. So, the company offered them work as cabin crew. I think they were cabin crew for all of about 4-5 months before being allocated type rating courses.

I think this is a good thing to do. Work of any form is hard to come by at the moment as we all know so if the company can't offer pilot positions then enabling these people to at least be able to earn a wage is bordering on showing some loyalty!

[The Real Slim Shady]

BlueTUI and binder.........lighten up........BALPA will have a job for you at Mickey D's soon enough ;)

[stansdead]

Let's just hope that Ryanair always have jobs for you Slim!!

The wheel turns fast in this game.:uhoh:

[Dr Eckener]

Nice to know how you see cabin crew Slim Shady, be glad I don't feed and water you
No one does. He pays for his own.

[captplaystation]

What was her name ? "abusing the sky" or suchlike, Hmnn, fickle creatures :rolleyes:,
she seems to have lost interest in "pilot matters" lately mind you . . . wonder why :hmm:

No excuse to belittle CC though, plenty more available Slim old chap:ok:

[The Real Slim Shady]

Capt P..wouldn't dare belittle cabin crew. Au contraire, I was belittling Ali Balpa and the 40 thieves who steal peoples' money but deliver zero support.

easy FOs to be cabin crew: whatever will the 40 Thieves sanction next? Thomson FOs as cleaners? Redundant baby FOs as general dogsbodies?

Ask not what your union can do for, ask WTF they are spending your subs on whilst Rome burns!

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

The key thing about this latest offer from the Orange House of Horrors is that it is not being given to untrained pilots - it is being given to type-rated Airbus pilots who have spent the summer working for easyJet and are about to spend another summer doing so. The more I listen to Slim, and his more intelligent and eloquent fellow traveller Leo, the more convinced I am about the need for a union. I cannot really work out if these are decent guys with genuinely held views against all the evidence (that is known as a delusion incidentally), or management plants, a la Dr Goebbels, who just loving trot out their master's views however alarming they may be. In either case they are manifestly wrong in just about any piece of logic they apply to anti-union rhetoric. Good reading nonetheless.

This is merely one of countless abuses of pilots at easyJet, and the only restraining factor on even greater excess is the presence of BALPA. There is no doubt that due to the strength of BALPA 'in situ', the company has decided to go for an attack on the weak underbelly of the pilot community - the newbies. These are people who in employment terms are in 'no man's land' as they never really belong to easyJet as direct employees. They are instead enslaved to the increasingly-immoral CTC under easyJet's Brookfield equivalent, the 'flexi-crew' system. In practice that means coming into aviation with massive debt, being used and abused by the pond life at CTC for pennies who gladly leave them with even greater debt, and then being replaced by even cheaper young lads and lasses a couple of years later. They have no rights and no real future -they are merely the canon fodder of the aviation industry who are being used to pay for the obscene bonuses that are so prevalent in our company. I accept that right now BALPA is not able to give the protection to these people that they would like, but the matter is in hand. CTC have increasingly become complicit in the flagrant and outrageous abuse of young pilots and are increasingly under the spotlight for their totally unacceptable participation in shameful employment schemes. How the managers at CTC sleep in their beds at night is frankly beyond me, given the deals they are negotiating right now 'on behalf of' their own people in an effort to circumvent the involvement of BALPA. BALPA are fighting battles on about 6 fronts at the moment, and given the ferocity of attack they are facing are doing well. Slowly but surely we will win against CTC, however far from reality that aspiration may be today.

I have no real desire to try and persuade the Slims and Leos of this world about the merits of BALPA - that would be like trying to train hyenas to become vegetarians. I do, however, desire to persuade every single pilot at easyJet that the only real hope for our company is a vibrant BALPA fighting on behalf of the pilots against ruthless management. In the next few days, what is being negotiated by CTC with easyJet to overtly abuse their own pilots will come into the public domain. Any of you who thought that slavery was a thing of the past will think again.

[heebeegb]

Here here NSF. Well said and I don't think your wish is too far away, from my experience. The pace is gathering.

[HundredPercentPlease]

NSF - you may not be able to get a Slim Shady to change his spots, but have a look at what colour his true spots are (http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/235823-bmi-industrial-action-vote-post2754029.html?highlight=unite+perish#post2754029)...

[mad_jock]

So the guys could be sat at home earning nothing.

Or they could be earning £130 a day (which I may add is more than some TP FO's I know) and getting HOTAC in Gatwick with a load of other FO's in a similar situation. In the knowledge that come the summer season they will be back in the RHS. Apart from loosing there medicals with a nasty dose of an STD I can't see where they can go wrong.

I really can't see a problem with this at all. In fact it seems a remarkably sensible solution for any airline management to come up with. If they take the piss though and keep them current and use them in dual roles as FC and CC and pay them depending which job they are doing :=

The pay to fly schemes I agree 100% with the comments made. Its a cancer in this industry.

[PAPI-74]

Justice I say !
Shouldn't accept the T's & C's in the first place and fill up the pools.

Enjoy the riff-raff, with their bucket and spades and Stella.

[FIBonacci]

In the next few days, what is being negotiated by CTC with easyJet to overtly abuse their own pilots will come into the public domain. Any of you who thought that slavery was a thing of the past will think again.

Don't over look this bit from NSF, they have smashed through rock bottom. Much worse than Ryanair.

[wind check]

Balpa cant do anything against flexi crew ****, the management has to find a way to cut the cost, if the cadets are paid as normal pilots then the company will be financially in serious danger.
I am glad that cadets are now treated like ****, they thought they could overtake everybody with there crap pay to fly scheme, and now they realise they have downgraded the pilots salary and conditions, and easyjet is not anymore a great place to work. This is low cost after all. :ok:

[FIBonacci]

I am glad that cadets are now treated like ****

Then you are going to cream your pants when you hear their new deal.

[Fly747]

In the past BA offered surplus Flight Engineers CC work which they accepted. It is very hard to imagine some of those that I know who did it wearing a pinny down the back! They made a change from the standard image of male CC I'm sure.

[wind check]

:}We'll see how long it last!

With Andy Harrison being replaced soon, orange thing will become a real low cost !! tic tac tic tac..... :D:cool:

[stansdead]

Pilot salaries are NOT going to bankrupt easyJet. The airline is a profitable, going concern. Just look at the share price. It's not exactly sky rocketed, but it has held up well during the downturn.

All this scheme is, is a cynical management ploy to:

a) Divide and conquer,

b) Lower costs because they can,

c) undermine the easyJet pilot community.

There will be further battles ahead I'm sure, but I do hope the easyJet BALPA CC have a strong mandate from their members. They are going to need it.

To say "I'm glad the Cadets are being treated like ****" is ridiculous. I'm an A320 Captain. I want my FO to be well rewarded for doing a professional job. If he/she doesn't have to worry about paying the rent/bank loans/food bills/kids nappies, then it's one less thing to distract them from their job in hand. Flying an aeroplane safely.

Stress manifests itself differently in all of us, but to advocate increasing stress levels directly through creating financial hardship is just plain bizarre.

Finally, it's worth considering that IF your airline were to fail, and you were to be a job hunter again, the T&C's you can expect will be directly linked to the success or failure of such management practices.

Be careful what you wish for, because anyone's airline could collapse this Winter.

[wind check]

when the petrol gets more expensive, then easyjet will start to loose money. It'll come soon :)

[The Real Slim Shady]

Mr 100%

PULLEEEEZE

NSF - you may not be able to get a Slim Shady to change his spots, but have a look at what colour his true spots are...

That is called ADVICE, based on hard won experience of the way the 40 Thieves worked within bmi: it doesn't, didn't change my view on the Thieves. It just demonstrates my humanist approach and concern for my colleagues who haven't yet seen the light!


The more I listen to Slim, and his more intelligent and eloquent fellow traveller Leo, the more convinced I am about the need for a union. I cannot really work out if these are decent guys with genuinely held views against all the evidence (that is known as a delusion incidentally)

NSF - I resemble that remark!

The evidence as to the efficacy of your beloved union is running pretty much at an all time low: in fact, not only has the dam burst, but the reservoir is looking dry and cracked.

Your, and several less eloquent and cogent others, beloved BALPA, has singularly failed to implement any coherent IR strategy, despite the silver words of the several tongued Brandon et al: the wreckage of the easyjet flexi crew scheme, and now the flexi cabin crew scheme, which even to a non Marxist like me, stinks of your cowardly union cohorts lunching in Mrs Miggins pie shop drowning your sorrows in Leo's much beloved Montrachet whilst the plan was hatched.

The fairy dust they have sprinkled in your eyes won't bring Santa or any little elves to your doors this Xmas with a sackful of jobs for you to choose from: but your BALPA Xmas card and the latest copy of The Log might arrive in time for you to use them to light the kindling on your fire.

In the spirit of Xmas tho Norman, think of the 3 wise men of Thomson, bmi and bmibaby who followed the BALPA star: they didn't find a child in the manger and they didn't take any gifts.

What they found was a dog: a dog bearing P45s.

Luckily, Leo and Slim were on hand to tell the 3 wise men that even though the BALPA mongrel had let them down, the hand of the blessed Mikey of Mullingar was open and jobs, security and a warm Irish welcome were available to some of the P45 holders.


Official Announcement:

BALPA today announced that it is changing its emblem to a CONDOM because it more accurately reflects the Union's stance.

A condom allows for inflation, halts production, destroys the next generation, protects a bunch of pricks, and gives you a sense of security while you're actually being screwed.


Damn, it just doesn't get more accurate than that!

[stansdead]

Slim = Wannabe Leo.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Mr 100%

PULLEEEEZE

That is called ADVICE, based on hard won experience of the way the 40 Thieves worked within bmi: it doesn't, didn't change my view on the Thieves. It just demonstrates my humanist approach and concern for my colleagues who haven't yet seen the light!

RSS,

On this occasion I'll take your advice and "Unite or Perish". Thanks for your "concern". :rolleyes:

And on the condom front - personally, I always like to be protected.

But I hope for your sake that MOL is wearing one as he skulks around behind you... :ooh:

In the mean time, we at eJ are united not to protect jobs (since BALPA cannot do that when a company needs to lose employees) but to try and ensure we are not unnecessarily shafted by greedy and myopic managers.

[cjd_a320]

On a lighter note.
Is Ms Lacole part of getting the CTC guys to accept the CC T&C's.....:eek::ok:

Sexy Laura Lacole previews the new Airbus 319 | FAMEmagazine.co.uk (http://www.famemagazine.co.uk/2009/12/10/sexy-laura-lacole-previews-the-new-airbus-319/)

[The Real Slim Shady]

In the mean time, we at eJ are united not to protect jobs (since BALPA cannot do that when a company needs to lose employees) but to try and ensure we are not unnecessarily shafted by greedy and myopic managers.

You missed out at the end - "something we have been notably unsuccessful at to the extent that we have allowed the management to shaft the cadets whilst taking the jobs of our existing FOs".

[stansdead]

Slim,

"something we have been notably unsuccessful at to the extent that we have allowed the management to shaft the cadets whilst taking the jobs of our existing FOs".

Is this not the very same case as in your beloved Ryanair?

The only difference as I see it is that if the easyJet FO's are being paid £1200 plus allowances as Cabin Crew, that's more than:

A) Ryanair cabin crew get (never be able to offer the same deal there Slim);

and

B) Ryanair Cadets get paid when on line.

It's time to put the sock in your mouth Slim. People aren't interested in your anti BALPA rants.

No airline is perfect. We're in the midst of a terrible economic contraction and all you keep going on about is Condoms. The rant has worn thin.

Please, Slim, just go fly your perfect Boeing for your perfect company.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

Welcome back Stan. Nice to see you treading the boards once more after your little holiday in the hole. Lets be nice to each other from now on, shall we? I'd very much like that.

Bravo Slim! Your Magnum Opus to date.

I spend more time than I should wondering why it is that truly good and decent men like Norman continue to be seduced by the hollow promises of BLAPA when, demonstrably, they deliver nothing. In fact less than nothing since they routinely betray the implicit promise of their membership. Standing inert whilst the headless chickens at the Grand Luton Orangery (http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKGEE5BA0MM20091211) utilise your CTC rape victims as cabin staff is just the latest in a long line of failures. Remind me Norman, what is a union for exactly? Oh, that’s right, to protect the rights of all members, especially those least able to defend themselves from that most hollow mantra of the whining aviator, bad management. Well, my dear, were that true, you'd have been out on strike ages ago. What is happening to your CTC cadets, or rather, what is about to happen, it utterly despicable. You certainly don’t find that sort of evil on our side of the Irish Sea. On the contrary, it is you who have established the new nadir, long ago in fact, and you a unionised airline! Gosh.

The word from your beloved BLAPA? "Sorry lads, we sympathise but there's ‘nowt we can do." Were your BLAPA all they claim to be, there wouldn't be a G registered airliner flying above the skies of Britain until this horror story is resolved. But there are, aren't there Norman? Lots of them, and what does that tell us? BLAPA doesn't give a shyte, or rather, they can't.

You write much of the benefits of unity and warn against the dangers inherent in a "divide and conquer" strategy. Have a closer look at BLAPA, Norman. Decentralised, airline specific CC's who are blameless in the event of their (regular) failures since, how does it go again, oh yes "BLAPA are the pilots and the pilots are BLAPA. We're only as strong as our membership permits." Really Norman, do you expect those possessed of a rational mind to accept such shamelessly regurgitated bollocks?

The more rudimentary, reflexive grunts from those of the slack jawed, gravel rash on the knuckles brigade (hello Dim Repa) are at least excusable since they know no better, or as in the case of many colleagues I truly admire, fail to escape the conditioning of their parents generation which is at least explicable within a psychological context, but Norman, you continue to perplex with your blinkered support of a turgid, morally corrupt, broke organisation, who promises everything and delivers nothing. I suggest to you, with the greatest of respect, it is a variation of Stockholm Syndrome where you've come to identify with your captors. And captive you truly are.

BLAPA knows very well that they're the only game in town. They also know that by fostering a sense of fear among the pilots they stand to greatly gain. In a fact not lost among the BLAPA leadership (such as it is), the two principal motivators of human nature are fear and greed. Manipulate those correctly, and you can make us walk on water, even the most reluctant. Shove an electric probe up a horses arse, and if given sufficient electricity, you can teach it to play Canasta. Compliance, then, becomes a question of voltage. Facts not lost upon your unclothed Emperor BLAPA. Do you, sometimes, feel the odd twinge in your prostate, Norman? Nothing to worry about I can assure you, its just BLAPA shoving a few extra volts down the wire.

To paraphrase Primo Levi, a sceptical generation of pilots stands at the threshold of a new order of things, bereft not of ideals but of certainties, indeed distrustful of the grand revealed truth; disposed instead to accept the small truths, changeable from month to month on the convulsed wave of BLAPA manipulation, whether guided or wild.
I do, however, desire to persuade every single pilot at easyJet that the only real hope for our company is a vibrant BALPA fighting on behalf of the pilots against ruthless management.
Your airline is rudderless (http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2009/12/09/lifes-not-easy-at-easyjet/), Norman, and until that is resolved with a sound new CEO, be it Brady or Coyle, BLAPA will seek to colonise your collective uncertainly to the benefit of their coffers and at the expense of your faith, trust and hope.

[The Real Slim Shady]

stansdead, let's get down to business.

Condoms? Only mentioned once, not "keep going on about it": do keep up, dear.

Stop whining about Ryanair and it's perfect Boeings and take a long, hard look through the rose tinted mist of your BALPA card: Thomson making pilots redundant, bmi making pilots redundant, baby making pilots redundant, easyjet shafting cadets and FOs - each and everyone a BALPA recognised airline.

Now BALPA can't stop market forces, nor it appears can they have any influence in stopping redundancies: in that case, why let them interfere with the running of the company in the first place? Why let them insist on expenses that cripple your airline and limit the flexibility the management have to manage the operation. Recall the old NATO doctrine? Flexibility is the key to air power!

Your easy FOs won't be making £1200 a month: the figure quoted was £130 a day, if the work is available, and how much training are they going to get? Cabin crew basic training normally lasts at least 6 weeks and then they have to do supernumerary flights then line training flights: easyjet planning to subsidise that cost are they for 1 month's work?

Anyway our cabin crew get paid more than £1200 a month and our Cadet FOs get paid during line training from the day the safety pilot is released, 35€ an hour until FLC then 55€ an hour, so for a 75 hour month, just over 4000€ for the first month's pay: not bad money for an FO with a 300 - ish hours.

Truly stan, the only people who are boring anybody are the BALPA hardliners who can't see the wood for the trees: you keep paying your subs to keep them in lunches, company cars and C class travel.

The pilots that have been let down, yet again, by BALPA, and are out of work or being measured for their CC uniform, will be taking a more realistic look at what they haven't had for their money.

askfap

At least they're getting HOTAC, if and when RYR ever adopt this scheme the hapless cadets will find themselves "camping out" in the car park with some of their future flight deck colleagues.....

FR cadets are filling the RHS of the shiny Boeings: and those in training at the moment will be filling the RHS of the 55 new ones arriving next year.

Do keep up.

[HundredPercentPlease]

I spend more time than I should wondering why it is that truly good and decent men like Norman continue to be seduced by the hollow promises of BLAPA when, demonstrably, they deliver nothing.

Apart from all the stuff they have delivered which has far outweighed the cost.

In fact less than nothing since they routinely betray the implicit promise of their membership.

Er, see above.

Standing inert whilst the headless chickens at the Grand Luton Orangery utilise your CTC rape victims as cabin staff is just the latest in a long line of failures. Remind me Norman, what is a union for exactly? Oh, that’s right, to protect the rights of all members..snip..

I think you'll find that it's CTC who are easing the CTC pilots forwards. You know, even on your third bottle, that it's hard to represent someone who doesn't work for you. Yet.

I'm going to guess that your suggested course of action (drop BALPA and become deunionised) will somehow stop this from happening to these CTC pilots. But I fail to see how.

The word from your beloved BLAPA? "Sorry lads, we sympathise but there's ‘nowt we can do." Were your BLAPA all they claim to be, there wouldn't be a G registered airliner flying above the skies of Britain until this horror story is resolved.

Four bottles, and the logic is cloudy. Not to mention the whole issue of UK law.


You write much of the benefits of unity and warn against the dangers inherent in a "divide and conquer" strategy. Have a closer look at BLAPA, Norman. Decentralised, airline specific CC's who are blameless in the event of their (regular) failures since, how does it go again, oh yes "BLAPA are the pilots and the pilots are BLAPA. We're only as strong as our membership permits." Really Norman, do you expect those possessed of a rational mind to accept such shamelessly regurgitated bollocks?

Checklist:

1. Rational mind? Yep.
2. Accept? Yep. But only because it's true.

.. but Norman, you continue to perplex with your blinkered support of a turgid, morally corrupt, broke organisation, who promises everything and delivers nothing..

Repeat of thoughts generated by bottle number 2, and countered by the truth.

BLAPA .. also know that by fostering a sense of fear among the pilots they stand to greatly gain...

Nope - no feeling of fear here.


You airline in rudderless, Norman,

Finally, enough is enough, and the plonk has rendered your thoughts as well as your typing unreadable.

[The Real Slim Shady]

100percent, albeit you are only using a small proportion of that to think, how on earth can you continue to defend the easyJet pilots ( the pilots are BLAPA etc etc) for allowing the exploitation of the cadets, CTC or no?

Are you seriously telling us all that the CC had no knowledge of this scheme?

If they didn't at the outset, when the first shiny faced cadet appeared did the warning bells not sound? Or were they all comatose on Buckfast?

And what on earth have the 40 thieves delivered other than redundancies and deceit? Who allowed the 145s in at LHR and pitted CC against CC now that jobs are at risk?

Why on earth won't you, or can't you see that?

[siftydog]

Don't think the '40 thieves' have the authority to make anyone redundant slim, only BMI could do that.

[Leo Hairy-Camel]

But 100%, you choose to overlook this one.....
The more rudimentary, reflexive grunts from those of the slack jawed, gravel rash on the knuckles brigade
You can almost set your clocks by it. Oh, and there's no Montrachet today. Sadly, I'll have to make to with a 2005 McRae Wood Shiraz by Jim Barry. It's been breathing whilst you, plainly breathless, have not.

[HundredPercentPlease]

Slim,

You clearly don't understand at all, do you?

Other CC's have nothing to do with us. So we don't worry or even know about their affairs. So let's just leave them to themselves.

What we have is eJ pilots being mauled by management. Agree? You seem to.

So, we have two options.

Option 1.

No BALPA, and we just get mauled. No way to say "no" to anything. Just spineless acceptance. Know the feeling?

Option 2.

We have a CC who's job it is to represent us. They have legal clout, but under our laws this has to be done under the glue of a union. Now I agree, BALPA are not ideal (a bit pricey, bad history and so on) but they are the organisation that provide that legal glue. So we can now collectively say no, or "if you do this then we do that". Again all subject to Thatcherised UK law, but it's all we have.

So we take Option 2. Now if it is such that we cannot aid a CTC employee because they are not an eJ employee, then that's again not ideal, but not enough for me to declare that Option 1 is better.

Why on earth won't you, or can't you see that?

The vast majority of our pilots can, and I'm sure yours would too were they not terrified into non-action by threats of base closure from your management. :rolleyes:

[HundredPercentPlease]

Oh, and there's no Montrachet today. Sadly, I'll have to make to with a 2005 McRae Wood Shiraz by Jim Barry.

Sorry, Leo, but I am not qualified to comment. Never touched a drop since 1985. I find alcohol a waste of money - it can cause you to lose your job, friends and ultimately your judgement.

But feel free to spend your money how you like. May I suggest though that you would get more enjoyment from a good hooker, membership of the .. (you get the picture). ;)

[Norman Stanley Fletcher]

Alas, the previous thread on whether easyJet is now worse than Ryanair is coming true before my eyes. I am not yet at liberty to give the exact details, but the latest offering to CTC guys surpasses the darkest acts of Ruinair towards any of their pilots. If ever you doubted the need for a union at easyJet this will change your view. Whoever dreamt up this contract must be living in the same era as Oliver Twist and the Poor House. Put simply, the CTC guys are outside the protection of BALPA and are about to pay a terrible price. We need to get them into the fold very soon indeed to offer them protection from the ghastly excesses of our management. When you are at the top looking down like Leo and his acolyte Slim it all looks very rosy. When you are at the bottom looking up it all looks very different. Some big battles are about to be fought and we simply cannot afford to lose them. As I say, looking at this new CTC contract is like looking into an abyss.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Well Norm, now is the hour and cometh the hour.........let's see if your CC step up to the mark.

When they do nothing again, and BLAPA Head Office do nothing, perhaps the 100%ers will finally realise that there is no unity in the 40 Thieves.

The sad thing is that a good fella like yourself will be tarred with the same brush as the I'm all right Jacks.

[Rainboe]

Well, shiver my timbers! From the very person who was soooo critical of Astraeus (step forward and take a bow Norman S Fletcher)
My personal view is that Astraeus are a two-bit company with two-bit management whose possible success is a threat to our whole industry. I frankly do not want Astraeus and their fellow travellers to succeed - I wish to seem them well out of the Airbus market. They have nothing to add to our industry and have done a great deal to destroy people's futures. I genuinely feel sorry for the unemployed - but not sorry enough to tell them to take these jobs.
As for me, I actually am mightily glad to be working for easyJet right now. Is it the best airline in the world? Absolutely not. Does it offer the best money? Absolutely not. Is it secure? As secure as any airline I know of. We are all taking part in a game of 'Musical Chairs' - the name of the game is to be on the strongest chair when the music stops. Right now the music has well and truly stopped and the easyJet chair looks decidedly inviting right now from where I sit.

Yes, 'from where you sit'- as TC on Airbus! 'You're alright, Jack!' After what you said in the Astraeus thread, and what your 'marvellous' airline is up to now- wash your mouth out! But then, it is fun on an anonymous forum like this to indulge in a bit of anonymous abuse, isn't it?

[Pizzaro]

It's CTC that needs sorting out. And cadets need TELLING that they are selling themselves short and ruining this industry.

P.

[donthaveone]

"It's CTC that needs sorting out. And cadets need TELLING that they are selling themselves short and ruining this industry"
WRONG!
It's balpa that needs sorting out. This is an industry wide issue which should have been nipped in the bud by balpa members before it got to this stage.

[Pizzaro]

CTC sorting out by a sorted BALPA.
Fine that'll do. Think we're on the same side.

P.

[Teddy Robinson]

Touch your toes .. bite the pillow.

Shameful what an aviation career has become.

good luck.

[Caudillo]

This might as well be the best idea since King Canute spread his towel on the beach that one faithful day. That's right, tell the cadets to stop it. Tell them they're fools and they're debasing themselves. Then when you're finished go and find the nearest gale and piss into it.

Since people are coming round to the idea that the similarities between a flying slave galley and Guantanamo Bay aren't necessarily limited to the colour scheme, why not pop one of those brave pills yourselves instead of foisting them upon the blind wretch next to you - by refusing to fly with him?

They might not be in the union but you are. If you accept only to form a crew compliment with those not on these terms, or if the trainers refuse to teach them onto the line, then would that not require that they get put on proper pilot-sanctioned, Balpa-accepted terms and conditions? I think it would, but then of course it would mean the big boys had to grow some rather than telling the most vulnerable to go do the dirty work.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Caudillo

Hell will freeze over before a single BALPA member has the cojones to stand up and do anything you have dared to suggest.

[hollingworthp]

Can anyone explain exactly what is on the table for these cadets?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

easyJet pilots are, by a large majority, in BALPA and happy about that. Ryanair pilots seemingly the reverse. Shall we leave that particular blind alley alone now?


The curious thing is that there doesn't seem to be any relenting in the supply of these cadets and these people willing to Self Sponsor Type Rating for a non-permanent job. The market is sending signals that just don't seem to be being received by those entering the industry at the training stage. The schools are pretty full, discounts small and enquiries about average.

Between the credit being squeezed and the now plainly factual paucity of jobs (and plummeting conditions) I did think that by now the lemmings would have stopped pouring over the cliff edge. Not so it seems. :(


WWW

[antonov09]

Drinks, sandwiches, a selection of beers and wines?

[Teddy Robinson]

well said.... it's a disgrace.

[Pizzaro]

Well said WWW, but how do we get the message across to the lemmings ?

P

[Rainboe]

Have you considered perhaps it is you that is not getting the message? The 'lemmings' as you call them, have probably accepted that the rules have apparently changed, and are doing what they feel they must in order to enhance the prospects of a job in their chosen career. For doing so, they are subject to castigation and anonymous abuse here from those who refuse, or cannot afford, to enhance their employment prospects. As such, they are more likely to remain on the dole. It is a reality these days. Not condoning, it's just how it is now.

[Pizzaro]

Rainboe

I worked hard to get into this industry, via the self improver route, 2 years instructing and now work as a skipper for a regional airline. I did not try to fast track myself ahead of others by buying/paying for type ratings. I basically could not afford it.
I now see experienced colleagues being made redundant and not being able to secure another job because cadets on temp contracts and woeful salaries takeing there places The beancounters at the airlines must be rubbing their hands and laughing at the pilot community. What other industry would accept this??? Would a junior doctor be allowed to become a specialist surgeon by buying a qualification. What would the law society say , if trainee lawyers were able to by-pass their articles by financial means?
I care about this industry and would like to think that others would be able to enter it through merit and hard work. I have no problem with people trying to get on in their chosen career but I do take issue with schools churning out cadets with no realistic hope of getting a job, it's not fair to anyone except the beancounters. Rainboe maybe you need to get the message , for the sake of our industry and our colleagues !!!

regards P.

[Busbar]

Some facts from the latest outcome of BALPA involvement at Thomson:

"We have worked with the Company to get external opportunities on the table and to put Career Break 2 in place that will allow a pilot to be paid in full up to the end of April even if they need or want to leave before that. We
have also asked the Company to be as flexible as possible when it
comes to last minute roster release and to help facilitate
introductions. Next month 80 Thomson Airways pilots have
interviews and simulator assessments lined up in the UK with Qatar
Airways and around 25 have interviews with Fly Dubai." :D

"We have negotiated with the Company to save at least 19 pilot jobs
in addition to re-opening a further voluntary severance scheme. So
from the Company figure of 156 pilots, (137 FTE), the number of
redundancies has dropped to 137 pilots, (120 FTE), and hopefully
will drop further with VS take up. We have also negotiated to
reduce the number of demoted Captains from 62 down to 20." :D

I could quote more but I think the above is good enough!

I look forward to the response from our resident anti-unionists!:ok:

[The flying bob]

Things seem to be decided. Both EZY and the CTC management have apparently found a deal....
cadets are now to pay for TR.......30K.
Another 30 000 on the top of the initial 60 000 for a flexi crew job. 6 months in the RHS then 6 months selling teas and coffees.
What a disgrace!

[Alexander de Meerkat]

First of all, I am pleased to report from my spies that so far not a single pilot has taken up the job 'offer' of being cabin crew for a month. Secondly, under a separate thread the details of the latest CTC offer will appear. You heard it here first....

[stansdead]

Leo, I wish I could say it's nice to hear from you. But, hello anyway.

Slim, do keep up dear. I don't work for easyJet. Nor am I a member of BALPA.

[FL370 Officeboy]

"We have negotiated with the Company to save at least 19 pilot jobs
in addition to re-opening a further voluntary severance scheme. So
from the Company figure of 156 pilots, (137 FTE), the number of
redundancies has dropped to 137 pilots, (120 FTE), and hopefully
will drop further with VS take up. We have also negotiated to
reduce the number of demoted Captains from 62 down to 20."

So let me get this right? Of the 137 redundancies the huge majority will be FOs I expect...? So, BALPA have made sure that the captains stay as captains but will ALL be RHS trained. Hence, the company will now be paying around 117 people to fly as FOs on captain pay. Good to see BALPA help the company cut costs...as long as it's not the cost of the captains, of course.

As for lemmings - here we are having our beef casserole taken off us in the interest of saving the aircraft from certain disaster at the hands of pilots and yet 'the pilot community' is happy to see despicable schemes such as Easy are now providing.

Let's think about this for a minute...young cadet gets loaded and loaded with debt. Crap life, no end in sight, no prospects, no help from anyone...'screw you I'm alright, Jack' attitude from his/her 'colleagues' etc etc. How far are we going to let it go before some disenchanted, hopeless and screwed up newbie has enough of the crap and does something stupid thinking they've got nothing to look forward to. Ah well, as long as they don't have a yoghurt it will all be fine.

BALPA are useless in stopping the race to the bottom. That fact unfortunately is unavoidable. They look after themselves i.e. senior captains and TCs. It's like chopping at a tree at the bottom - you might be ok at the top for now but eventually it will all come crashing down.

Thankfully I work in an airline that hasn't yet decided to partake in such dreadful schemes and I'm pleased to be able to say that - but that doesn't make me any less concerned for the future of the profession and the industry as a whole.

Safe landings guys.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Next month 80 Thomson Airways pilots have
interviews and simulator assessments lined up in the UK with Qatar
Airways and around 25 have interviews with Fly Dubai."

Can't organise your own interviews then?

Stan, apologies, I took you for a BALPA hanger on.

[Coppi]

Not many heading for mol's ruinair then, are there?

I wonder why that may be as it is such a fantastic place to be in?

It seems to me that pilots join aforementioned company as a last resort only i.e. when either no other airline will take them or are inexperienced as TRSS once was when he joined said outfit.
Eventualy he evolved into mol's servant but that's another sad story.:yuk:

[JPHIL68]

ha ha ha the brillant easyjet i m so happy to be in other airline:ok::ok::ok::ok:

shame on the staff and shame on the english board

[Busbar]

Officeboy,

To correct your incorrect judgement. The demoted captains are going onto FO's payscale for the same year of service. i.e. 5 year Captain gets demoted and goes onto year 5 FO payscale. So you are wrong.

Slim, you rant about BALPA doing nothing for anybody. Well, the company have told people they are being made redundant. So BALPA negotiated a deal for those individuals with Qatar and FlyDubai, so they go there for a specified time period (I think 2 years) and then come back to Thomson at the same position they left from. So your stupid comment is void. That is a good deal in my book. :ok:

I don't think the sun shines out of BALPA's arse by a long way, but give credit where it is due.

[FL370 Officeboy]

To correct your incorrect judgement. The demoted captains are going onto FO's payscale for the same year of service. i.e. 5 year Captain gets demoted and goes onto year 5 FO payscale. So you are wrong.

Erm...not quite. Have a re-read:

So, BALPA have made sure that the captains stay as captains but will ALL be RHS trained. Hence, the company will now be paying around 117 people to fly as FOs on captain pay.

I was referring to guys who are staying as captains but being RHS trained. So you are telling me they will be being paid FO pay when they are operating RHS? I don't think so somehow. The fact they are training the capts in the RHS would suggest they don't expect to have enough FOs?? Yet they are happy to bin off 137 guys, the huge majority of which will be FOs whilst captains are flying around in the RHS on captain pay. Hmm, great way of cost saving eh? No wonder the figure went UP! More FOs needed to be made redundant to offset the increased 'cost' of operating the RHS with a captain. Brilliant!

I didn't mention the demoted guys' pay anywhere I don't think. Let's not cherry pick and twist each others words eh?

So you are wrong.

No..you just chose to not read my post and immediately sprang to the defence of BALPA regardless of what I'd actually written.

[The Real Slim Shady]

Not many heading for mol's ruinair then, are there?

I wonder why that may be as it is such a fantastic place to be in?

It seems to me that pilots join aforementioned company as a last resort only i.e. when either no other airline will take them or are inexperienced as TRSS once was when he joined said outfit.
Eventualy he evolved into mol's servant but that's another sad story.

Oh Jeez coppi you crack me up.

Just mind the door doesn't hit you on the ass on the way out :D:D

[Busbar]

No you are wrong Officeboy. In an official statement released by the company CC it states clearly that "all demoted Captains are going to be paid on the FO payscale, in line with their length of service." Yes you may not believe it but it's true.

You are correct in assuming that the majority of redundancies are FO's, but that's what you get with LIFO and seniority lists. And the cost saving you talk about is achieved with this paycut for the guys being demoted. Not amazing but it's what's happened.

And furthermore, if these guys take career breaks or go to Qatar or FlyDubai, they still have their jobs back after a specified time period, at the same point on the Seniority list. I think a fairly good deal to be honest, considering the circumstances.

[FL370 Officeboy]

:ugh:

Are you even reading what I have said?

I'll try again

I was referring to guys who are staying as captains but being RHS trained. So you are telling me they will be being paid FO pay when they are operating RHS? I don't think so somehow.

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE DEMOTED CAPTAINS!!!!

I am taking about the occasions when you have two captains flying together, i.e. one in the RHS. This will happen more often now, hence why all captains will be RHS trained. So, they obviously think they will be short of FOs but heavy on captains, yes? So, to carry the extra cost of being heavy on captains it is fair to assume they have increased the number of redundancies up to 137 which means more FOs being made redundant!!!

Anyway, this is a thread about easy screwing FOs and I gave my opinion about how useless BALPA are at addressing such practises...there is not point you defending BALPA at TOM any further as you're not even arguing about what I am talking about!!

[Busbar]

LOL :D Yeah your right this is about EZY guys being screwed. But does it matter? This industry, it's all the same ****, but different colour schemes!

[james1013]

Oxford and Easyjet are now offering an "Airline Opportunity". You guessed it, circa £30K buys you a TR and line training and the promise of summer operations as an FO....!

Having read this thread the most worrying phrase in the offer is the promise of "alternative winter operations"....should one read this as CC work?

If one turned down the CC work in favour of spending the winter as a pilot (FI on SEP), would that be punished with no new FO contract come the next summer season? Or is the offer of CC work given to try and help FOs maintain an income (if they don't have another means of gainful employment)?

Begs the question, do they actually need more TR'd FOs? and if not why are they doing it?

[lowcostdolly]

As an EZY SCCM I feel for all Pilots at EZY at present. I have worked long enough to build some friendships with long standing F/D (Captains and Fo's) and to see the worth of the the new cadets as well.

However young and inexperienced these FO's may have appeared when I first meet them at the briefing it doesn't take me long to realise (usually by the end of first sector) they could do a normal landing if the Cpt was incapacitated. That is what we need from them isn't it?

EZY management however have no idea re anything else and probably haven't even thourght about the above anyway. They think about cost, end of, and linked to that is their bonus.

I have just posted on the CC forum (new EZY CC). You guys might want to be aware that by some (not me) you might now be percieved as "favoured".

It's time we all united and stood up to the Brady Bunch as Andy can't manage it and doesn't care anyway as he has made his money and is now leaving.

I don't believe in strikes purely as it affects our pax who are innocent bystanders. As CC it is easy for us to work to rule. We can sit down for the whole flight and do nothing but safety related duties. That would screw EZY's profit on ancillary revenue really quickly.

I don't know what you guys can do to work to rule from a safety perspective but I would be willing to bet that if you worked to MEL's/Commander discretion EZY management would soon wake up to the smell of coffee. The delay's would mount up I'm sure.

Don't let them screw you Guys. Balpa and Unite should work together. Just as the Pilots and CC work together on board. The F/D door is no barrier to us talking.... Thank God!!!

At the moment EZY are in the hands of the Brady Bunch!! We are at present beating FR on screwing everyone because management have just breached our integrity values. At least FR are up front re the fact they don't do integrity!!!

[smith]

However young and inexperienced these FO's may have appeared when I first meet them at the briefing it doesn't take me long to realise (usually by the end of first sector) they could do a normal landing if the Cpt was incapacitated. That is what we need from them isn't it?


No silly, they are only there to make the flight legal. They would not be there if the bean counters had their say!!!

[low n' slow]

As long as we hope to resolve this through a civilized discussion with the companies, we will all be down to slavery within the next 2 or 3 years.
What easy and a lot of other companies (have a look at whats going on in Sweden at the moment) are doing must be considered illegal despite their actions falling within legislation.

The UKCAA must surely have something to say about how this is affecting aviation safety? Or are they just as toothless as the Swedish CAA? It amazes me to see that regulating authoroties seem to lack the most basic knowledge about organisational flight safety. If the CAA's cant regulate the industry, then it is all up to us up front to do it. We all have a responsibility to protect our trade. The slavery part isn't about lifestyle, it's about very fundamental safety factors. If we don't understand this we have no hope in reaching workable conditions in the future.

Remember that power only survives where it is met with obedience. French farmers know this, we could all learn a bit from them.

/LnS

[320seriesTRE]

This is a Union thing, not a CAA thing:confused: Why would the CAA care?

[Rock On Tommy]

What the Hell is going on with T&Cs in the UK?? Every day it's something worse:mad:

[punk666]

Rock on Tommy I agree its not just the aviation industry its the UK and europe alike!

We aren't living we are surviving!! With the government taxing the hell out of everything how can one enjoy life with out working till he/her is 6 foot under?