Flying to Moscow

[HUSKYdriver69]

Hello,

A am planning a flight from EU to Moscow in Cirrus. Which airport in Moscow is best for GA? What handling fees can I expect?

thanks!

HD

[lear60fellow]

Taxes? expect a lot!!!!! Domodedovo or Vnukovo (last is the GA airport for Moscow)

[drogue chute]

Never been to Vnukovo, but I personally wouldn't want to go to domodedovo in a cirrus... I imagine it'd a nightmare in a small aeroplane!:\

[FLEXJET]

Before considering landing in Vnukovo, ask for a handling quote at Gazprom's Ostafyevo, the closest airport to downtown Moscow.
They may be able to arrange Russian airspace permission as well.
Ostafyevo airport (http://ostafyevo-airport.com/)

Good luck!

[ExcelXLS Driver]

Hi HD,

A brave soul you are!

Vnukovo is a magical place. Get your Russian Visa before you go otherwise 3 hours waiting in a Cirrus is not much fun, as they will make you wait on board and disappear with your passports. It’s much nicer waiting on a business jet with a loo and bottle of champers!

If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!

Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!

Have a good flight!

[projectman]

This Ostafyevo airport intrigues me. Has anyone been there and could share their experiences? Especially when compared to Vnukovo (where we end up once a month)
Thanks

[Aviaservice]

Hello! You should remember that you might have a problem with AVGAS! I recommend to you drive by car. You'll be able to understand "russian soul" more. :}

[epsum]

I still havent been in UUMO, but our company other a/c fly there fairly ofter due to owner demands, so i can share only colleagues views.
First, for some strange reason, you have to call to Ostafjevo to get weather information.
Secondly, if you think that approach and departure from VKO is pain in the arse, the UUMO is much worse. Approach and departures from there are mixed with Shermetjevo and Domodedovo approaches, so you will get plenty of short clearances and some strange vectors. But its probably business as usual in Moscow area.
And the major issue to us is tyre wear. The runway is concrete, and seems that it happily eats all the rubber from the tyres. And of course. its extremely slippery when whet.

[projectman]

Opening up an old topic I know, but we received the below email yesterday from Vnukovo. Our company flies once a month to Vnukovo and in general we have been happy with the service provided by Streamline Ops.
With additional charges thrown about like this I was wondering if there might be a better alternative for GA aircraft to fly in and out of Moscow.

We would like to inform you about the very high newly introduced charge at Vnukovo airport: "Special slot coordination" of EURO 2'000.00

This charge is applicable starting September 01, 2010 for foreign aircraft (excluding CIS registered and officially operated) departing during daytime
(between 0700 and 2400 LT) in the direction of:
- any other Moscow airport;
- Ukraine;
- Belarus;
- The Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia).

As explained verbally by the AP operator commercial office, this step is taken to minimize the daytime ferry traffic during rush hours.

Please inform your OPS to take this into account when planning ferry flights out of Vnukovo.

Would appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance

[GLJ Dispatch]

Hi all,

To be clear, this only concerns ferry flights and not passengers flight. However, this is again one of the tricks to make some extra money by the Vnukovo gang:D. As an alternative, try SVO or DME?

Good luck,

GLJ Dispatch

[zakka]

Vnukovo is a magical place. Get your Russian Visa before you go otherwise 3 hours waiting in a Cirrus is not much fun, as they will make you wait on board and disappear with your passports. It’s much nicer waiting on a business jet with a loo and bottle of champers!

If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!

Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!


At Vnukovo 3 they have a crew transit lounge where you can wait for your visa in case you don't have one. Expect 2-3 hours wait.
The chance of getting a parking on Vnukovo 1 is very slim, so expect Vnukovo 3.
I also don't know if they have avgas, and the idea with bringing some alcohol for the fuelers is definitely good, and also correct that you can expect big delays for your departure - the ground frequency is normally chaotic to say the least.
Good idea to bring Rubles, but some might accept dollars.

I don't know the actual fees, but it is very expensive to land and park there.

I assume you have GPS in your Cirrus, otherwise it will be a nightmare to follow ATC instructions - especially during approach, as they like to fly you from waypoint to waypoint all over the place.

For a first time to Moscow, I recommend you go with someone who has been there before, but of course, I don't know your overall experience. They do have some funny procedures.

Good luck if you go, and prepare a big fat wallet to pay all the fees.

[Empty Cruise]

A few VKO generalities:

If you fly an arrival, they will often "forget" you, so you're chasing them all the time ("Confirm we may descend with the profile?")

They are very good at giving you the new height just as you're about to level off, thus compressing the work a bit

If being RV'ed, they leave you on a 90 deg intercept and more often than not forget to clear you for the approach - again, chase them...

Finally, they're not going to give you a landing clearance untill you advise "Ready for landing, Gear Down"

Ground, as stated, is a law unto itself. Arrival is smooth, but be prepared for departure. As you won't have an APU, you may want to pre-order a 28V GPU, since you can sit waiting for the start-up-clearance for longer than you care to think about. My record is 10 hrs (1 refuel, 1 re-catering, 2 toilet services) - before we had to yell "uncle" and tell the pax that even if we went now, we'd be out of duty and that we'd better cut our losses, regroup in the hotel and try again next day :( - don't think your batt is gonna be good for that long...

Otherwise, everyone is very friendly and always try to help you out - good place, but slightly chaotic.

Oh - another tip is just to take whatever arrival and departure slot you can get prior to your ETA or ETD, and then delay the fpl till you get to where you want. If you try to move the slot, they'll fine you 2000 EUR. Makes you wonder why they have a slot allocation system :ouch:, but hey, it's their train set!

[wao]

10 hours for a start-up clearance? You've got to be kidding! I thought the 7pm queue at JFK was bad ....

[Sepp]

No. Empty Cruise is not kidding. You'd better have a sense of humour if you go there*, and pax similarly.

Having finally negotiated start up, you well may also then happily burn any amount of gas waiting for taxi. I love the "just waiting for the "xxx" ahead of you...." call : one hour later, the tug arrives (I say arrives, it has actually been parked in front of your aircraft for the whole time), followed by the crew of "xxx", etc. If you are unfortunate enough to qualify for the EU-ETS, this will give you a sense of warm satisfaction, as it completley fxxs up the politicos' rediculous pseudo-calc of CO2 burn for the route.

So fill you boots, and never say Россия-Матушка doesn't look after you...

Всего доброго!



*And I like the place. Russia, I mean, and Moscow in particular.

[galaxy flyer]

From what I have seen of VKO fees, your best bet would be to make an even trade: Fees for the Cirrus and an airline ticket West. I, too, have gone back to hotel after a six-hour wait for a trans-Atlantic clearance. But, OTOH, I "turned" VKO last month in 1+20 which has to be some kind of record!

Can't say as I have ever seen a Cirrus-category plane at VKO III, just sayin'

GF

[gone till november]

Dont bother as moscow is an expensive corrupt **** hole with some of the worst ATC this side of Italy and tasteless bad quality food and beer at grossly inflated prices and quite possibly the most miserable people on the planet.

The only good thing about moscow is watching RATIN appear at the top of your ND and watching it disappear at the bottom.

Other than the above im sure you'll have a good time.

Ps i hope your Cirrus has big fuel tanks as there are not many fields between Poland and moscow.

Ps Ps Don't remember seeing any piston twins or singles at Shereymtevo Vnukovo or Domededevo

Ps x3 all of the above is good advice and in my opinion VKO is the worst of the lot.....it's beyond ****e

[Level 400]

HUSKY
Just wondering why you would want to? We visit Moscow only because we have to! However, a few pointers.

1. As already stated, get your visas in advance. Waiting for Visas, 4 hours in SVO, 3 hours in VKO, and 1.5 hours in DME (actual figures) is not much fun.

2. There is a nice little Exec/GA apron in DME where we normally go in our BizJet, and we are looked after very well by EVOJet, so it may be worth contacting them for their advice on which airport, what fees etc. Of course you will pay some charges, and Moscow is horribly expensive whichever airport you choose, but a good agent can at least make sure you are not too seriously ripped off!

3. ATC is not easy. Have your metres/feet conversions to hand if you can't convert your FMS to metres and expect to go from FLs in metres straight to QFE in metres and to be vectored all round the sky for about half an hour after arriving overhead your airfield before being cleared for the approach.

4. Take a stack of roubles and be prepared to return without it!

L400:}

[AircraftOperations]

His original post was 10 months ago. Likely he's done the flight by now, if he was gonna do it.

[terryb99]

His original post was 10 months ago. Likely he's done the flight by now, if he was gonna do it.


True, but I have learned alot from the thread.

Like, avoid Moscow on a GA flight! :)

[hawker750]

We have simply stopped flying there, it is not worth the hassle. Also I got fed up with loosing money. Go there in May for 2 days and pay 4,000 euros. Go there 3 weeks later and the bill has gone up to 5,000 euros , next month 6,000 and so it goes on and on and on and o .................. Prefer to go somewhere simple and friendly like Kinshasa at 3 in the morning!

[kotofeus]

yes, VKO is not the place to go as this is the most expensive airport for GA because of the demand (convenient drive from the city centre etc)

SVO is very busy, slotted and expensive too. A bit like LHR.
DME is ok... sort of.

UUMO - getting there by car is a challenge. You'll have to drive via some villages and country roads + most of the taxi drivers wouldn't know how to get there. The airport is not 24 hours as far as I know.

There is also Moscow Bykovo (BKA) - but it is not international.

all in all your trip to Moscow might turn up as a rather expensive hassle...

I would fly to St. Petersburg instead - really nice city, LED is not that expensive as Moscow airports, but rather busy as well and ATC there is might be your worst nightmares...

nice and rather cheap hotels and good food too...

[Inspecthergadget]

St Petersburg LED

I'm planning an MD81 162Y to LED out of Norway in NOV10 and am looking for a Handling Agent at LED who can deal with this size of aircraft. We're not looking for Biz Jet Handling but something that works through the terminal.

It could well be that Biz Jet handling is the better solution but would appreciate anyone's experience of operating through LED.

Cheers

[kotofeus]

there are few to choose from in LED.

The main one used to be Pulkovo Aircraft Services (PAS)- nice guys, I worked with them for a long time including biz aircraft handling etc. Always good service etc.

It looks like PAS is being pushed away by JETPORT handling that belongs to Rusaero and who offer the best rates at the moment. I dealt with them a couple of times, handling a F100 and MD83... They did the job, but it was far from ideal. They concentrate more on aircraft handling rather than on pax handling and I had to subcontract a local rep who was dealing with my passengers.

There is also a handling company called Virtrans - never used them but they were recommended to me quite a few times.

Remember that both PAS and JETPORT will be asking for pre payment based on proforma invoice and you might get charged extra afterwards.
Be careful and read through invoices thoroughly - there are always "mistakes" and "typos" that might increase the final amount.

All payments go via Rusaero.

There is also an alternative to all that - you can use Streamline OPS Handling for your permits and handling set up. They have their own rep in LED - Spanish guy I think... he's a bit of a "one man show" but does the job...

hope that all makes sense and helps.