Flying to Moscow
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Flying to Moscow
Hello,
A am planning a flight from EU to Moscow in Cirrus. Which airport in Moscow is best for GA? What handling fees can I expect?
thanks!
HD
A am planning a flight from EU to Moscow in Cirrus. Which airport in Moscow is best for GA? What handling fees can I expect?
thanks!
HD
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Before considering landing in Vnukovo, ask for a handling quote at Gazprom's Ostafyevo, the closest airport to downtown Moscow.
They may be able to arrange Russian airspace permission as well.
Ostafyevo airport
Good luck!
They may be able to arrange Russian airspace permission as well.
Ostafyevo airport
Good luck!
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Hi HD,
A brave soul you are!
Vnukovo is a magical place. Get your Russian Visa before you go otherwise 3 hours waiting in a Cirrus is not much fun, as they will make you wait on board and disappear with your passports. It’s much nicer waiting on a business jet with a loo and bottle of champers!
If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!
Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!
Have a good flight!
A brave soul you are!
Vnukovo is a magical place. Get your Russian Visa before you go otherwise 3 hours waiting in a Cirrus is not much fun, as they will make you wait on board and disappear with your passports. It’s much nicer waiting on a business jet with a loo and bottle of champers!
If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!
Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!
Have a good flight!
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I still havent been in UUMO, but our company other a/c fly there fairly ofter due to owner demands, so i can share only colleagues views.
First, for some strange reason, you have to call to Ostafjevo to get weather information.
Secondly, if you think that approach and departure from VKO is pain in the arse, the UUMO is much worse. Approach and departures from there are mixed with Shermetjevo and Domodedovo approaches, so you will get plenty of short clearances and some strange vectors. But its probably business as usual in Moscow area.
And the major issue to us is tyre wear. The runway is concrete, and seems that it happily eats all the rubber from the tyres. And of course. its extremely slippery when whet.
First, for some strange reason, you have to call to Ostafjevo to get weather information.
Secondly, if you think that approach and departure from VKO is pain in the arse, the UUMO is much worse. Approach and departures from there are mixed with Shermetjevo and Domodedovo approaches, so you will get plenty of short clearances and some strange vectors. But its probably business as usual in Moscow area.
And the major issue to us is tyre wear. The runway is concrete, and seems that it happily eats all the rubber from the tyres. And of course. its extremely slippery when whet.
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Opening up an old topic I know, but we received the below email yesterday from Vnukovo. Our company flies once a month to Vnukovo and in general we have been happy with the service provided by Streamline Ops.
With additional charges thrown about like this I was wondering if there might be a better alternative for GA aircraft to fly in and out of Moscow.
We would like to inform you about the very high newly introduced charge at Vnukovo airport: "Special slot coordination" of EURO 2'000.00
This charge is applicable starting September 01, 2010 for foreign aircraft (excluding CIS registered and officially operated) departing during daytime
(between 0700 and 2400 LT) in the direction of:
- any other Moscow airport;
- Ukraine;
- Belarus;
- The Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia).
As explained verbally by the AP operator commercial office, this step is taken to minimize the daytime ferry traffic during rush hours.
Please inform your OPS to take this into account when planning ferry flights out of Vnukovo.
Would appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance
With additional charges thrown about like this I was wondering if there might be a better alternative for GA aircraft to fly in and out of Moscow.
We would like to inform you about the very high newly introduced charge at Vnukovo airport: "Special slot coordination" of EURO 2'000.00
This charge is applicable starting September 01, 2010 for foreign aircraft (excluding CIS registered and officially operated) departing during daytime
(between 0700 and 2400 LT) in the direction of:
- any other Moscow airport;
- Ukraine;
- Belarus;
- The Baltic States (Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia).
As explained verbally by the AP operator commercial office, this step is taken to minimize the daytime ferry traffic during rush hours.
Please inform your OPS to take this into account when planning ferry flights out of Vnukovo.
Would appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance
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Hi all,
To be clear, this only concerns ferry flights and not passengers flight. However, this is again one of the tricks to make some extra money by the Vnukovo gang
. As an alternative, try SVO or DME?
Good luck,
GLJ Dispatch
To be clear, this only concerns ferry flights and not passengers flight. However, this is again one of the tricks to make some extra money by the Vnukovo gang
. As an alternative, try SVO or DME?Good luck,
GLJ Dispatch
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Vnukovo is a magical place. Get your Russian Visa before you go otherwise 3 hours waiting in a Cirrus is not much fun, as they will make you wait on board and disappear with your passports. It’s much nicer waiting on a business jet with a loo and bottle of champers!
If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!
Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!
If you are unable to display meters on a PFD, I am guessing you have a glass cockpit, otherwise make up a chart for converting meters into feet. Try to park at Vnukovo 1 and you should make the first turning for it, otherwise you will spend the day taxiing there!
Not sure if they have AVGAS, but if they do bring a couple of cans of beer. Not for you but for the refuelers, will help with West / East Relations! Also get some roubles, $'s are no good. For your departure plan for a 1-2 possibly 3 hour delay there may be a presidential flight!
The chance of getting a parking on Vnukovo 1 is very slim, so expect Vnukovo 3.
I also don't know if they have avgas, and the idea with bringing some alcohol for the fuelers is definitely good, and also correct that you can expect big delays for your departure - the ground frequency is normally chaotic to say the least.
Good idea to bring Rubles, but some might accept dollars.
I don't know the actual fees, but it is very expensive to land and park there.
I assume you have GPS in your Cirrus, otherwise it will be a nightmare to follow ATC instructions - especially during approach, as they like to fly you from waypoint to waypoint all over the place.
For a first time to Moscow, I recommend you go with someone who has been there before, but of course, I don't know your overall experience. They do have some funny procedures.
Good luck if you go, and prepare a big fat wallet to pay all the fees.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
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A few VKO generalities:
If you fly an arrival, they will often "forget" you, so you're chasing them all the time ("Confirm we may descend with the profile?")
They are very good at giving you the new height just as you're about to level off, thus compressing the work a bit
If being RV'ed, they leave you on a 90 deg intercept and more often than not forget to clear you for the approach - again, chase them...
Finally, they're not going to give you a landing clearance untill you advise "Ready for landing, Gear Down"
Ground, as stated, is a law unto itself. Arrival is smooth, but be prepared for departure. As you won't have an APU, you may want to pre-order a 28V GPU, since you can sit waiting for the start-up-clearance for longer than you care to think about. My record is 10 hrs (1 refuel, 1 re-catering, 2 toilet services) - before we had to yell "uncle" and tell the pax that even if we went now, we'd be out of duty and that we'd better cut our losses, regroup in the hotel and try again next day
- don't think your batt is gonna be good for that long...
Otherwise, everyone is very friendly and always try to help you out - good place, but slightly chaotic.
Oh - another tip is just to take whatever arrival and departure slot you can get prior to your ETA or ETD, and then delay the fpl till you get to where you want. If you try to move the slot, they'll fine you 2000 EUR. Makes you wonder why they have a slot allocation system
, but hey, it's their train set!
If you fly an arrival, they will often "forget" you, so you're chasing them all the time ("Confirm we may descend with the profile?")
They are very good at giving you the new height just as you're about to level off, thus compressing the work a bit
If being RV'ed, they leave you on a 90 deg intercept and more often than not forget to clear you for the approach - again, chase them...
Finally, they're not going to give you a landing clearance untill you advise "Ready for landing, Gear Down"
Ground, as stated, is a law unto itself. Arrival is smooth, but be prepared for departure. As you won't have an APU, you may want to pre-order a 28V GPU, since you can sit waiting for the start-up-clearance for longer than you care to think about. My record is 10 hrs (1 refuel, 1 re-catering, 2 toilet services) - before we had to yell "uncle" and tell the pax that even if we went now, we'd be out of duty and that we'd better cut our losses, regroup in the hotel and try again next day
- don't think your batt is gonna be good for that long...Otherwise, everyone is very friendly and always try to help you out - good place, but slightly chaotic.
Oh - another tip is just to take whatever arrival and departure slot you can get prior to your ETA or ETD, and then delay the fpl till you get to where you want. If you try to move the slot, they'll fine you 2000 EUR. Makes you wonder why they have a slot allocation system
, but hey, it's their train set!
No. Empty Cruise is not kidding. You'd better have a sense of humour if you go there*, and pax similarly.
Having finally negotiated start up, you well may also then happily burn any amount of gas waiting for taxi. I love the "just waiting for the "xxx" ahead of you...." call : one hour later, the tug arrives (I say arrives, it has actually been parked in front of your aircraft for the whole time), followed by the crew of "xxx", etc. If you are unfortunate enough to qualify for the EU-ETS, this will give you a sense of warm satisfaction, as it completley fxxs up the politicos' rediculous pseudo-calc of CO2 burn for the route.
So fill you boots, and never say Россия-Матушка doesn't look after you...
Всего доброго!
*And I like the place. Russia, I mean, and Moscow in particular.
Having finally negotiated start up, you well may also then happily burn any amount of gas waiting for taxi. I love the "just waiting for the "xxx" ahead of you...." call : one hour later, the tug arrives (I say arrives, it has actually been parked in front of your aircraft for the whole time), followed by the crew of "xxx", etc. If you are unfortunate enough to qualify for the EU-ETS, this will give you a sense of warm satisfaction, as it completley fxxs up the politicos' rediculous pseudo-calc of CO2 burn for the route.
So fill you boots, and never say Россия-Матушка doesn't look after you...
Всего доброго!
*And I like the place. Russia, I mean, and Moscow in particular.
From what I have seen of VKO fees, your best bet would be to make an even trade: Fees for the Cirrus and an airline ticket West. I, too, have gone back to hotel after a six-hour wait for a trans-Atlantic clearance. But, OTOH, I "turned" VKO last month in 1+20 which has to be some kind of record!
Can't say as I have ever seen a Cirrus-category plane at VKO III, just sayin'
GF
Can't say as I have ever seen a Cirrus-category plane at VKO III, just sayin'
GF
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Dont bother as moscow is an expensive corrupt **** hole with some of the worst ATC this side of Italy and tasteless bad quality food and beer at grossly inflated prices and quite possibly the most miserable people on the planet.
The only good thing about moscow is watching RATIN appear at the top of your ND and watching it disappear at the bottom.
Other than the above im sure you'll have a good time.
Ps i hope your Cirrus has big fuel tanks as there are not many fields between Poland and moscow.
Ps Ps Don't remember seeing any piston twins or singles at Shereymtevo Vnukovo or Domededevo
Ps x3 all of the above is good advice and in my opinion VKO is the worst of the lot.....it's beyond ****e
The only good thing about moscow is watching RATIN appear at the top of your ND and watching it disappear at the bottom.
Other than the above im sure you'll have a good time.
Ps i hope your Cirrus has big fuel tanks as there are not many fields between Poland and moscow.
Ps Ps Don't remember seeing any piston twins or singles at Shereymtevo Vnukovo or Domededevo
Ps x3 all of the above is good advice and in my opinion VKO is the worst of the lot.....it's beyond ****e
Last edited by gone till november; 16th Sep 2010 at 17:27.
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HUSKY
Just wondering why you would want to? We visit Moscow only because we have to! However, a few pointers.
1. As already stated, get your visas in advance. Waiting for Visas, 4 hours in SVO, 3 hours in VKO, and 1.5 hours in DME (actual figures) is not much fun.
2. There is a nice little Exec/GA apron in DME where we normally go in our BizJet, and we are looked after very well by EVOJet, so it may be worth contacting them for their advice on which airport, what fees etc. Of course you will pay some charges, and Moscow is horribly expensive whichever airport you choose, but a good agent can at least make sure you are not too seriously ripped off!
3. ATC is not easy. Have your metres/feet conversions to hand if you can't convert your FMS to metres and expect to go from FLs in metres straight to QFE in metres and to be vectored all round the sky for about half an hour after arriving overhead your airfield before being cleared for the approach.
4. Take a stack of roubles and be prepared to return without it!
L400
Just wondering why you would want to? We visit Moscow only because we have to! However, a few pointers.
1. As already stated, get your visas in advance. Waiting for Visas, 4 hours in SVO, 3 hours in VKO, and 1.5 hours in DME (actual figures) is not much fun.
2. There is a nice little Exec/GA apron in DME where we normally go in our BizJet, and we are looked after very well by EVOJet, so it may be worth contacting them for their advice on which airport, what fees etc. Of course you will pay some charges, and Moscow is horribly expensive whichever airport you choose, but a good agent can at least make sure you are not too seriously ripped off!
3. ATC is not easy. Have your metres/feet conversions to hand if you can't convert your FMS to metres and expect to go from FLs in metres straight to QFE in metres and to be vectored all round the sky for about half an hour after arriving overhead your airfield before being cleared for the approach.
4. Take a stack of roubles and be prepared to return without it!
L400
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His original post was 10 months ago. Likely he's done the flight by now, if he was gonna do it.
True, but I have learned alot from the thread.
Like, avoid Moscow on a GA flight!
True, but I have learned alot from the thread.
Like, avoid Moscow on a GA flight!
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We have simply stopped flying there, it is not worth the hassle. Also I got fed up with loosing money. Go there in May for 2 days and pay 4,000 euros. Go there 3 weeks later and the bill has gone up to 5,000 euros , next month 6,000 and so it goes on and on and on and o .................. Prefer to go somewhere simple and friendly like Kinshasa at 3 in the morning!