dyscalculia and Students

[Langford883]

Hi there,

Not really sure if this is the right place to post, but hopefully the best place for the right answers. Has anyone came across any student pilots with numerical difficulty?, As I have a form of number dyslexia, where I find it hard to grasp and figure out calculations, I just end up getting confused. I started my flying training back in 2005 and within a matter of hours had progressed onto the circuit, my RT and flying is A+ but that is where I have left it, as i have been anxious about progressing further on to such things as Weight and Ballance calcs, NAV and such things as dead reckoning.
I passed my RT Theory and HMP no problem but have been putting off the rest really due to the reason of how difficult will it get with having this setback with numbers?, I have no problem interpreting the aircrafts basic 6 instruments or in the actual flying, just more the calcs side of things.

many thanks

[DB6]

No, just students who have to work harder at it than others. No big deal, you just have to put the graft in and get on with it if you want to master it. I don't think it's helpful to view yourself as having some sort of affliction, or to use it as an excuse - not that you necessarily are - just get on with it and beat it and the next time someone tells you you have 'dyscalculia' (is there such a word?) tell them they're talking bollocks.
By the way, after the theory exams you don't have to do very much number work at all - but don't tell anyone :ok:.

[hugh flung_dung]

Until genetic research produces the faultless human (which I hope it never does, except for certain physical attributes :E) everyone has a range of problems to overcome when they learn new skills. The facts are that a lot of people are poor at doing sums on the ground, that wherever we start on the numerical scale we all get worse in the air, and that in flying there are certain numerical answers that need to be correct and others that only need to be guesstimates. How is it then that average imperfect mortals can learn to fly safely? - it's because there are many different ways to approach learning/teaching and the FI's job (with the stude) is to find the tools and ways to work which suit the individual.
In your case it may take longer than someone who enjoys doing mathematical gymnastics, but equally they may struggle on something which you race through. Choose an experienced FI and try to get them to teach you graphical methods wherever possible.

HFD

[xrayalpha]

I had a student who was hopeless with numbers after being bullied at school.

S/he had a hospital job where dosages of drugs to kids were critical. S/he sat up for nights and nights with spouse and made up quick reference cards so no calcs had to be made at work - just read of drug. height/weight etc and find doseage.

Actually got a merit award for the work!

So there are always ways round problems.

If the worst, try microlights. No balance calcs needed, just weight. And if you cannot punch in empty weight, fuel weight, passenger and pilot weight into a calculator and check it is less than Max All-Up Mass, then there is truly little hope. (you don't need to calculate any of that in the exams, just before flights and in flight planning. Heck, if you know your instructor's weight and your own, and the aircraft weight, you can make a table up for different fuel loads. Oh! microlight aircraft usually have that table on display as part of the regs. helps that the regulators think microlight pilots stupid!!)

For nav, you can use Flylight's map board. Then all you have to do is be able to read the scale on a ruler. Not too hard - and can be used in the nav exam. Unlike GPS and web based calcs which everyone actually uses once qualified!

So, even if you don't leanr to fly a microlight, you'll find lost of input there to show your instructor an alternative way of doing things. And if they don't like it, find a better instructor.

[Pugilistic Animus]

before college math was my biggest stuggle,..I've found that sometimes when folks think they are 'bad at math' they are not;

they are bad at abstact meaningless calculation,...I found even 'advanced' math easy once I started taking chemistry and physics classes [not to mention many wonderful teachers for Calculus and Diff eq etc. and I did all my homework because I had to:\] classes I'd never thought I'd ever take now I have three degrees:},...the one thing about the physical sciences that helped is I was no longer finding some 'x' in some weird plane it became what pressure?, what velocity,...these things have a tangilble meaning to me.

after a while it became possible after much struggle to even begin to read math stories as a regular paragraph,...maybe you are not bad at math at all maybe it's the mindless abstraction of pure math,...and let me tell you calculus and trig/analytical geometry are the easiests of math,...but geometry algebra and statistics are actually the worst branches,...:\

lastly,..this statement helped me to just barely pass high school math,..."there are only 4 things that you can do in math: add, subtract, multiply and divide" misses Dawson:) and 'Joycee'

PA

[Dudley Henriques]

Langford883;

Unless you intend to get into Empire TPS, you should be able to enjoy a basic VFR flying career without an extensive math background.
You WILL however, have to be capable of simple calculations. Much of what is necessary to fly safely in a VFR environment is given to you on charts and graphs. You do however have to be capable of understanding these graphs and charts and how to use them properly.
Much of what you will encounter in flight involves deductive reasoning and simple calculation. For example, if flying into a controlled field, on being given a landing runway, you WILL have to be able to VISUALIZE your present position and project that into a spacial relationship with the assigned runway. There are shortcuts using your HSI or DG that will help you with this type of calculation.
Weight and balance for the most part with light airplanes involves being able to read and properly interpret a graph.
Bottom line is that as far as math is concerned, you don't need much, but you DO need some simple math.
My personal opinion as a flight safety consultant and a flight instructor is that if you can pass the written and the flight test, you will be fine. If not, your issue is academic (no pun intended:-)
Dudley Henriques

[LFT]

What's "math"?

[Pugilistic Animus]

as you see spelling is not my best topic either:\

anyways,...I think the best way to learn to apply math is to apply it to something you love,...if you love aviation then it would be the best medium to start,...the 'math' in aviation is simple but for now I'd say forget about it,...start by reading Wolfgang Langwiesche's stick and rudder' and when you begin calculations perhaps you can come here to ppruNe for math help where required,...in fact I'm sure even His Highness:p and others would be glad to help you wont need 'math' until cross country,...except a chart for crosswinds

further in the air it's ok to cheat in math

for example: to obtain reciprocal heading add or subtract 200 then add or subtract 20

180 degree heading if you add 200 and subtract 20 you get 360 or north,...

likewise on hdg 360 you'd subtract 200 then add 20 to get 180

for 090 add 200 = 290 subtract 20 = 270,...no math;)

PA

[24Carrot]

further in the air it's ok to cheat in math
for example: to obtain reciprocal heading add or subtract 200 then add or subtract 20Or look at the other side of the DI...

[Pugilistic Animus]

yeah that was for the ground;)

[fuzzflyer]

been fling 20 years in gliders, done a GA licence in NZ and just about completed one
in UK, navigator by profession but weight and balance has me stumped again

[Genghis the Engineer]

I think that some people here are being rather unfair on Longford, the original poster.

Dyscalculia is a recognised learning deficiency, and not really just a case of working harder at the groundschool. Some people have a very genuine inability to handle calculations.

The first part of the solution may well be to find a learning styles specialist (unlikely to be a flying instructor) to help with finding strategies to deal with this problem.

The use of a calculator, and strictly learned rules by which things are written down and calculator use done in particular orders should help with most things such as weight and balance and performance. Creating tables or diagrams that can be used in the air to look up and solve particular navigational problems is a potential solution also. The best or worst of us (and I'm probably above average in maths, having an engineering PhD) use these to make life easier and safer.

The infamous "whizz-wheel" / CRP-1 / E6b / circular slide rule is disliked by many pilots for being an odd and unnatural way (to them) to do calculations - I'm guessing you've not dealt with it yet. I'm guessing, but because it does calculations in a completely different way to the normal arithmetic that you struggle with, *might* offer a solution. It is worth trying to learn it to see if it comes any easier.


It's also true as has been said that the microlight syllabus (and I think also the glider courses?) contains a lot less calculation than the light aeroplane syllabi. That might be something that you find much less painful, but at the same time provides just as much potential for fun flying.

So in summary:
- It's a problem that may be solveable, but try and get some specialist help
- Carefully picked strategies should see you right, simply working hard won't if you genuinely have dyscalculia
- Microlights or gliders offer much fun, probably cheaper, certainly less maths.

G

[HowlingMad Murdock]

Longford - all the best with your numb3rs - am workin' on mine too......:) many thanks to all the bods who have posted suggestions on improving calculation skills etc.

Hugh Flung_Dung....fab name......Too funny!http://dwightschultz.freeforums.org/download/file.php?icon=hysterical.gif (http://dwightschultz.freeforums.org/posting.php?mode=post&f=9#)