Flight deck visits

[Tankertrashnav]

Feel like an intruder here as this is my first visit to this part of PPRune - I normally don't stray from Military Aircrew or Jetblast. However this forum seems more appropriate for my question.

At a family get together a few days ago, a cousin who I hadn't seen for a year, informed me that on a holiday flight in the summer on a major UK carrier he was invited onto the flight deck for a 15 minute visit. This on the strength of mentioning to a flight attendant that he was 10 hours into a PPL.

Correct me if I am wrong but I thought this sort of thing post 9/11 was illegal, and flight deck visits were a thing of the past. I've no reason to doubt said cousin, he's not given to spinning yarns so I can only assume it did happen. Any comments?

[wakeup]

I think you will find that he only went on the flight deck while the aircraft was on the ground?? I find it very hard to believe that he would be allowed in there during flight. Someone correct me if I'm wrong......

[hapzim]

Certainly not in my company, can't even get next of kin on the flight deck.:ugh:

Even more galling is the fact I get out of my 150t missile having just flown over half of Europes captial cities and can not get on the jump seat of another carrier to commute home. CRC and all.:*

[Tankertrashnav]

No wakeup - this was in the air! I could hardly believe it myself, but both my cousin and his wife say thats what happened - they were a bit taken aback at my reaction as they thought this was quite normal. Maybe it was the captain's last flight!

[kenparry]

For all UK carriers, in-flight passenger visits to the front are totally prohibited by statute law - I think it's the Anti-Terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001. In essence, only those required on the flight deck for the performance of their duties are allowed there in flight. Any breach is regarded as cause for immediate dismissal.
Some other countries are not so draconian.

[Herod]

Possibly the flight was being operated on a sub-charter by a company from another country?

[Ella]

My guess is that he was not flying on a UK or USA airline. Most other foreign operators have long since cocked two fingers up to the Americans and resumed flight deck visits.

I know of several people who have visited and stayed up for landing with Spanish operators and I have a friend who regularly jump rides on Finnair's 757's.

It's only the Brits who pay homage to what the Yanks want, and even they aren't so worked up about it as they were post 9/11. Sadly we don't posess any politicians with the balls to tell the Americans that we are doing our own thing.

My own airline won't even allow flight deck visits on the ground anymore. Totally the wrong attitude for a holiday airline.

[BELHold]

This is a question I have been wondering about myself, I flew recently, couple of months ago, on a UK domestic flight, not a G reg Aircraft.

I was seated in row 3 so had a good view of the flight deck.

A boy of around 12 or 13 years of age was allowed into the cockpit whilst we were on the ground and I thought to myself remember the days when I did the same thing, I was chuffed that the flight deck were so good with him, they even allowed him to make a PA.

The boy returned to his seat however to my surprise he was summoned to the flight deck again once we had reached TOC where he remained for the duration of the flight, he again was allowed to make a PA giving the flight progress.:confused:

Don't get me wrong, I thought it was a really nice gesture, I remember the dream coming true for me many moons ago, but are the rules different for non UK reg operators even when operating within the UK.

[bluesafari]

A colleague of mine, travelling with a major European Carrier, has had at least two visits to a flight deck during the journey, on one occasion remaining there for the landing, so it appears that things may be relaxing a little with some airlines.

[finfly1]

Can't visit a flight deck, but you can stroll into the White House uninvited and have your pic taken with the VP....

[INNflight]

Flt deck visits are still very possible outside the US and UK as mentioned, so not sure who your cousin flew with, but I guess it wasn't a UK company.

[qwertyuiop]

Its a bloody joke and sums up the UK perfectly. Flight deck visits are still possible on some USA flights. I know, Ive been there!
Most non UK airlines allow it (or at least turn a blind eye) even when in the UK.
This country is a farce. Too many jobsworths and a culture of being seen to be doing something even when its bollocks.
Tankertrashnav, I hope your cousin enjoyed the experience. If it was a UK airline I salute the crew but they were taking a risk. Not with safety but with crossing a farsical and stupid line.

PS. Love the name, VC10's?

[bfisk]

Have jumpseated a few times on Norwegian carriers, but I am a pilot though, and presented myself as such. Better seat and a friendly chat with those we share the skies with.

[M.Mouse]

Those opposing the current UK rules don't feel that UK owned and operated airlines are seen as more of a target than European airlines then i.e. UK support and active participation in Iraq and Afghanistan is seen as quite OK by Moslem extremists?

[Denti]

Other countries do share the pain at least in afghanistan and some did share the pain in iraq, its not only the brits who are a target if it comes to that. But most countries are a tad more sensible in respect to flight deck visits.

[Flying Aggie]

As crew we do allow Flt deck visits, but also pending on the PIC. Some time we allow them during flt, and sometimes on ground.
Children love it, and we don't have problems with it, by the way that's how many of us pilots became in love with flying, it was that one time visit that got us hooked on aviation.
Today, you need security check, background check, MI5, MI6 checks, CIA, NSA, what ever agency that's out there and may be x-ray before we enter the flt deck and just to see how it looks.
Let's hope this changes again, we can enjoy jumpseat again if you are crew from different airlines to see how different things are and enjoy talking about aviation.

[Tankertrashnav]

Just to reiterate - quite definitely a UK carrier flying from a British airport - and I wont say which in either case - no point in risking dropping someone in it for what was after all a nice gesture which made his holiday.


PS. Love the name, VC10's?

No qwertyuiop - something much prettier - like this:

Handley Page Victor B1, 7850M, Royal Air Force (http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1189797/)

but without the nice white paint job and few extraneous bits and pieces stuck on :)

[blimey]

Those opposing the current UK rules don't feel that UK owned and operated airlines are seen as more of a target than European airlines then i.e. UK support and active participation in Iraq and Afghanistan is seen as quite OK by Moslem extremists?


Not sure I have any of those in my immediate family.

[DownIn3Green]

Ella...NO COMMENT on your first posts...don't like it, stay on you little island in your tiny world...

Tanker...I belive you when you say it happened, however, I also believe you may be a journalist looking for some sort of conformation for a story...

Give the facts of the flight involved and you will get confirmation or not....

[jshg]

No, don't give the details please ! We don't want a witch hunt and somebody losing their jobs over this ridiculous rule.

[TDK mk2]

You can do it in the uk, but you need to be extremely careful. In my last job there was a curtain between the cabin and the galley, and a forward toilet. As far as the other passengers were concerned a young boy (2 and a half) was taken to the toilet by his grandfather. I had my son and father in the flight deck which I'll probably never be able to do again in flight. I was working my notice but the DfT could have prosecuted me if some nosy passenger had poked a video camera past a curtain or something. We're all so paranoid these days...

[Ballymoss]

Give the facts of the flight involved and you will get confirmation or not....

Well, that statement makes sense:(

Why would he want to give the full details and create another Pablo Mason/Robby Savage story?:mad: As for being a journo (they don't bother with interesting profiles:rolleyes:)

Of course I could be completely wrong but, chances are US homeland security will feature more prominently in tomorrows rag-tops...

finfly1

...it wasn't just the VP, I believe they managed a piccy with Mr O'

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[Tankertrashnav]

I would have thought that my excellent grammatical English and impeccable spelling would have given the clue that I am NOT a journalist.:E

[Random Electron]

I recently travelled to a major Far East destination from London Heathrow. I passed my business card, which declared me as a major UK airline B767 captain, to the cabin crew, and asked her to pass it on to the flight deck with my compliments, not really thinking much more of it. Imagine my surprise when the cabin crew member returned after a few minutes and informed me the captain requested my presence in the flight deck. Several hours of chit chat later, I saw TOPD coming up on the FMC, so I went to excuse myself on the grounds they were no doubt about to get busy, and I would like to leave them to their work. Not only was this dismissed as unnecessary, they offered me the second jump seat for my 16 year old son, who leapt at the invitation, and sat there with his video camera and filmed the whole descent, approach and landing into Bangkok, which included QRH actions due to a double a/c pack trip off. He was the man of the evening at his Air Cadets night on our eventual return to London, when he showed his footage. The carrier concerned was a well regarded Middle Eastern airline, and the flight deck crew were Canadian. Yes, it is only here in the UK we have problems with "rules".

[vickers vanguard]

great to hear it's still happening, kudo to the Canadian crew :D:D........to hell that stupid rule.

[bravesbaseball]

qwertyuiop are you serious? The rule is not stupid. Calling it stupid is though. Let me see if I understand you. We saw thousands of people murdered, but we should not secure the flight deck. Is that what you are saying? Are you really serious?

[Strange Frontier]

I normally just lurk, but I've read enough of this crap from Americans here and on other forums to stay quiet any longer.

September 11 was allowed to happen because of your own lax security at airports that allowed those idiots to get onto the planes with boxcutters in the first place, yet you now want to cry about it to the rest of the world and want to force others to adopt policies because of something that was your own doing.

Good heavens, in 2000 I wasn't even allowed to fly with a glue gun (yes, a hot glue gun that works with 220V electricity and melts solid glue sticks) in my hand luggage on a flight from Johannesburg to Dar Es Salaam on an SAA flight. When the bag went through the X-ray machine I was asked to open it and once I showed the contents to the security personnel the whole bag was taken from me and was hand delivered back to me once in the customs queue at Dar Es Salaam.

For the record, all the bag contained apart from the glue gun was some RJ45 network connectors, wall mount boxes and my RJ45 crimping tool. I was on my way to go install a computer network at the offices of a forestry company.

Yes, folks. Before 9/11, in an African country, I was not allowed to take a glue gun on the plane as hand luggage, yet the Americans allowed Muslim terrorists to board American planes on American soil with potentially lethal weapons on their person, after being taught to fly at American flight schools, with the CIA ignoring intel of a possible terrorist attack using planes as weapons, thereby allowing 9/11 to happen, yet now they are quick to try to force other countries to adapt to their will.

We in other countires must now suffer the consequences of their stupidity.

Before 9/11 cockpit visits in-flight on SAA was apparently very possible, but thanks to you, that is now strictly out of the question.

You Americans made life just a little less pleasant for the rest of us, so don't expect any sympathy from me for something that you brought on yourselves.

[piton]

Bravebaseball,
Prior to 9/11 cockpit doors were already supposed to be locked in the US and the flightdeck a no go area - how much good did that do?? When the security on the ground is as crappy as previous poster pointed out it is all window dressing.

We who are lucky enough not to fly in the US are glad to able to show our family members what we do. Or allow a colleague a courtesy visit.

Our bosses and regulators allow common sense and professionalism (and our ground security is still better than the US where bags are even now are often left onboard even if the pax don't make it so OTP for pushback isn't tarnished!) Crazy - just waiting for another Lockerbie.....

You need to think more about real security and not window dresssing.....

[Piltdown Man]

It depends on the carrier's country of registration and/or which country's airspace you are flying in. The UK and US have a totally pointless set of rules regarding cockpit access. The rest of a world appears to apply more enlightened policies.

PM

[shlittlenellie]

Ella, your own airline does allow flight deck visits on the ground. Check the cabin crew safety notices and yes, I know, it doesn't say that in the OMA.

[D-Gold]

I know it is very strict in a lot of companies, but i have never had any problem getting the jump seat on domestic flights and European flights. I have between 40-50 flights on jump seat. Just a few pilots who have said no, or "not the whole flight, but you are welcome from top of descent :) Never got tired of it so far ;)

[champair79]

Sorry to hijack the thread but what would the chances be of me visiting the flight deck (ground or in the air, I'm grateful for anything) on a domestic Pegasus flight in Turkey?

I'm flying Easyjet from SAW-LTN later in the day but I've checked the flight and its only got a 30 min turnaround at SAW and a 45 min turnaround at LTN before aircraft goes to Madrid. I doubt the crew would want me asking for a visit on the ground in SAW or LTN with the short turnarounds.

I don't know what the rules here are in Turkey. Is it Captain's discretion. I have my PPL licence with me if that helps :ok:

If its a no, I won't lose any sleep over it but it would be a nice treat.

Champ

[pb365]

I used to like to visit the flight decks and meet the man in charge; always nice to put a face to the voice you hear over the PA. Many thanks to all pilots who spared the time. I am a UK citizen so I have to put up with our politicians pandering to what those damned yanks want so sod holidaying in the US.

Just like to say it is real useful banning flight deck visits when some mad-man blows up the plane from inside the passenger cabin or will do. Oh hang on a mo one did - remember Philippine Airlines flight 434.:confused:

[Rainboe]

Let's just remember what evil madmen did to 4 domestic flights in the US on one day! Where you want to vacation is up to you, but as a long experienced airline pilot, I have to say that a flight deck moving at nearly 600mph is not really the place to make introductions and offer hospitality! The pilots, if they are so inclined, can make themselves at the exit door of most aeroplanes to say goodbye, and I do try and do this most flights. When you see how congested airspace is these days, even in the middle of the north atlantic, and how fast closing speeds are (about 1200 mph), I'm afraid the days of the 'office' being a 'meet and have a chat' arena are most definitely over. In the old days when we could have people up for take-off, despite being asked to keep quiet, I have known visitors start a conversation with the flight engineer on the take-off roll. Those days are over.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Commonsense from Rainboe.. I often wonder if those writing on here who are so desperate to visit flight decks are similarly inclined when travelling by train? Do they write on railways forums asking if they can visit the front, or bemoan the fact that they can't? Just curious...

[CaptSeeAreEmm]

IMO strangers have no place on the flight deck - but people I personally know, family, friends, current and old work mates etc. are welcome.


I once had a case in LHR where my FO wanted to install his girlfriend on the jumpseat (I even knew her) - and some DfT dude went ballistic over it. Why shouldnt she be allowed to travel on the JS, we both knew her, and she was clearly not a terrorist.


What has happened to common sense:confused:

[pb365]

Commonsense from Rainboe.. I often wonder if those writing on here who are so desperate to visit flight decks are similarly inclined when travelling by train? Do they write on railways forums asking if theycan visit the front, or bemoan the fact that they can't? Just curious...

This is just the sort of garbage I have come to expect from British managers with their usual pompous and miserable attitude to all except their own cronies. The vast majority of pilots are quite willing to meet people as is evident on this forum and others. Rainboe, maybe you have a few unaddressed personal issues.

[pb365]

CaptSeeAreEmm, Rainboe, and Heathrow Director,

In furtherance to my previous post;
I of course have no knowledge if your forum names are in any way related to what you do or indeed if you are genuinely involved in the airline industry in anyway. However, let me point something out to you; prior to 2001 I have visited more than one flight deck and as an experienced pilot pointed out if they the crew were in any way bothered or there was likely to be any danger to anybody by my presence then they would never have let me in, in the first place, in addition a terrorist would not ask.

By the way Heathrow Director, I have been in been plenty of drivers cabs on the railways but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

Rainboe: Ha ha ha ha what have you told me in your post above not to mention your other posts on this forum?:)

[JW411]

pb365:

I notice from your personal profile that you:

"Have no flying experience, just interested in aviation".

You obviously have absolutely no idea how impossible flight deck visits have become since 9/11 and, I'm sorry, but you are way out of your depth to even discuss the topic. In the old days, I used to welcome visitors to my flight deck (on my terms and with the prior approval of the rest of my crew).

We often had visitors on the jump seat for take-off and landing even (with a heavy brief about when to talk and when not to talk).

If I were you, I would stick to cockpit rides with British Rail. Perhaps you could let us know when you finally hack a ride to BRU on the flight deck of Eurostar.

In any event, in excitement terms, that would beat the hell out of the average drag from LHR to LAX.

[pb365]

JW411,

You are talking through the top of your hat and obviously have not read very much on this subject although there is plenty on this forum alone. In the first instance I was not discussing the 'possibility' of flight deck visits merely commenting on the over-hyped security. This in case you don't know is also the opinion of a good many pilots - very likely the majority. Furthermore a good number of countries still allow visits, a fact which would appear to have escaped your attention - don't think I would care to have you at the front of any plane I am on. By the way I do not and never said I work for British Rail which in any event no longer exists. You are clearly neither British nor a pilot.

Ps: I well remember the reference to you posted by another poster but will spare you the embarassment by not posting it here. Ciao.

[JW411]

pb365:

I thank you for your reasoned response. I have no comment to make save to point out to you that I have not been embarrassed since I was 3 years of age.

[Denti]

You obviously have absolutely no idea how impossible flight deck visits have become since 9/11

Only in the land of the not so free which are deeply in a state of fear, the UK and the USofA, the free world, including most of europe has different rules.

[ba038]

I wento n a flight-deck in 2008 ,it wasnt a uk airline.And also i got to have seat on the jumpseat whilst landing in dubai.As soon as we landed and taxied to the gate he told me to go back to my seat and not to tell anyone.

btw it was an A330.

[Rainboe]

Look, we don't need to justify the security rules to 'aviation fans' with no experience- if other airlines want to go around breaking them into or out of the UK, and the DfT hears about it, then I would imagine their very licence to operate to the UK would be under threat. Let's get this clear- the flight deck is no place to entertain visitors, especially completely inexperienced people who don't know how to conduct themselves. I've been flying 747s with hundreds of people on board, and had visitors with extraordinary behaviour:
*people who were drunk and decided they'd fancy asking to see the FD. It is not nice suddenly realising people are far more inebriated than immediately shows
*'fathers who want to bring their son to see the FD'. Up comes a man with a baby in nappies looking frightened and confused! Men with only children tend to do daft things like that.
*Yappers who can't stop talking, even during the landing
*Enthusiasts who don't know when enough is enough

For the safety of all the people on board, the FD is not the place to make intros and chat away. We had several visitors on a 747 when and engine surged quietly. We were all turning around talking. After a few seconds I had a niggling thought- that 'knock' I heard a few seconds ago sounded just like a surge, but quieter. When I looked to the front and checked the engine instruments, the exhaust temperature of one of the engines was running away uncontrolled. It was an immediate shut down, full power on remaining and start a descent and return. Whilst herding everybody out.

Once again, those days are gone. Good. And as an experienced professional with 38 years as an airline pilot and 21,000 hours, I am not going to get taken to task by an 'enthusiast' in this professional forum who doesn't appear to agree with the regulations as stated by the authorities!

[CaptSeeAreEmm]

Rainboe - Happy New Year

Whilst I agree with you about not having strangers on the FD - I still have a hard time understanding why I should say no to a colleague pilot trying to get home from a trip to London, if the plane is fully booked.

Just for the record - I abide by the rules in the UK - I just feel stupid leaving a colleague behind, when we have two perfectly good JS' on the FD.:ugh:

[A and C]

I agree with you about flight deck visits from pax but the whole issue of flight deck access in the UK is govened by the PC paranoia of the current UK goverment, this along with other policys of Nu Labour just shows the contol that they want over the lives of the citizens of the UK.

The fact that I cant take my Wife, Father or Mother on the flight deck when they pose no security threat whatsoever is one thing but the no being able to take a serving RAF Officer who was working on a CRM project and wanted to take a look at a civil opperation ?
Has the whole UK gone mad?

I am so pleased not to be working for a UK AOC holder, it removes most of the PC rubbish thrust down the aviation industrys throat by the NU Labour crettins.

[TheChitterneFlyer]

Well said Rainboe.

As a now retired F/E my experience of 'Flight Deck Visitors' hasn't always been a pleasant one; especially when flying a holiday charter flight! There can be nothing worse than having a passenger bum shoved in your face whilst they try and get closer to the businness-end of the FD. I'll also concur with Rainboe about the father wanting to bring his six-month son onto the FD and then to proceed in pointing out the various controls to a son who doesn't understand a word about what he's talking about... actually, neither did the father; yet another aviation Geek!

In an aeroplane such as the L1011-1, all of the passengers can see the constant stream of visitors to the front-end; not to mention those queueing for the forward toilets; until, eventually, you'd think this was a queue for a ride at Disnyland.

To be fair, there were the odd few visitors who showed a genuine interest in how we did things; except that they were few and far between.

Ultimately, our visitors became a huge distraction from the task that we were supposed to be doing; safely flying from A to B. I would eventually call a halt to anymore visitors to the FD, but would often be rebuked by the Skipper for being a 'spoil-sport'.

In later years, whilst flying the B747-200, it became less obvious that visitors were on the FD. Nonetheless, all that seperated the FD from the upper deck cabin was a curtain; which didn't prevent the odd drunken passenger from bursting into the 'office' unannounced.

The 'Good 'Ole Days' have long gone, but the terrorist threat cannot be ignored... I wholeheartedly approve of a locked door. That being said, the rules are somewhat 'over-the-top' in preventing an off-duty crewmember from using the seat to get back home after a long duty-day.

As for FD visitors; it should be the Skippers descision and not a blanket rule as decreed by the DoT. However, given that all FDs are now crewed by only two pilots... I'd rather not have any visitors at all. Bah Humbug.

TCF

[trex450]

a flight deck moving at nearly 600mph is not really the place to make introductions and offer hospitality! The pilots, if they are so inclined, can make themselves at the exit door of most aeroplanes to say goodbye, and I do try and do this most flights. When you see how congested airspace is these days, even in the middle of the north atlantic, and how fast closing speeds are (about 1200 mph), I'm afraid the days of the 'office' being a 'meet and have a chat' arena are most definitely over.

C'mon Rainboe, with autopilot, TCAS and weather combined does it really matter if you are looking out of the window or not. My reactions certainly are not that good. The security reasons are obvious but otherwise there is no reason now that flight deck visits should not happen compared to 20 years ago.

[Rainboe]

You can't mean that!

Yes, the rules are far too draconian. I can't take ATC on look-see trips, no family or other airline colleagues on the FD- it's ridiculous. But this thread has been about the policy of banning general visitors, not colleagues. Most visits were prompted by idle and bored curiousity. I got tired of succumbing to peoples' urges about their curiosity, and I agree, over 90% of visits were a waste of time for people who had absolutely no comprehension of what was going on in any way. That the small percentage of visits for people who really got something out of it is also lost is sad, but necessary.

Normally, a law change allows for fine tuning as experience is gained, and exceptions should be made for military, ATC and staff, but it seems our useless politicians have their ears closed to any suggestions. But as for Joe Public- no, sorry, it is not the right place, and it will never be changed. At the moment, there is a common factor in all the assaults, one religion. Next it will be an ethnic group feeling hard done by, a particular nationality, maybe even crazed greenies! They will launch themselves as predators on the peaceful system of air travel because that gets the big publicity, just like the last set of creeps. That is why the general public ban must stay.

[John R]

Rainboe, I have one question. If those passengers were causing you trouble / distracting you on the flight deck of a 747 (and I do not doubt for one minute that they were indeed a nusiance), why did you not simply refuse them access? It is within your authority as the captain to do so and there is no obligation to entertain passengers.

[Rainboe]

How do you know they are inebriated or bringing a frightened infant or uncontrollable chatterboxes until they are in the FD? The cabin crew didn't know them- they just relayed the request to the FD.

[John R]

OK, point taken.

[aviatordom]

I would absolutely cherish a jumpseat ride, I really, really would.

From the point of view of a passenger who is well-behaved, respects that there are times when the crew CANNOT be distracted and knows that obviously I can't touch a button or a switch, I think it's a shame that flightdeck visits are banned in the UK, thanks to Terrorists and other stupid passengers.

I'll have to wait at-least 3 years before I can fly with an EU airline that has relaxed rules (Parents only travel with UK airlines).

Then again, in a few years time I may be an Engineer going to an AOG job and hopefully getting a jumpseat ride on the way:}

[fireflybob]

Good grief, I don't know how we managed flight deck visits for all those years without aircraft falling out of the sky all over the place!

[Capt Scribble]

I too found that I could control the flight deck visits without the help of a government edict. On long flights it was a delight to speak to some of our pax, if they became tedious it was a pretty simple matter to become 'busy' and say goodbye. Requests were always vetted by the crew and overall, I never had any bad experiences in years. Sadly, now we are cowed by terror of any and everyone.

[411A]

However, given that all FDs are now crewed by only two pilots... I'd rather not have any visitors at all.

NOW, all two pilots only?
Hardly...:rolleyes:

[Georgeablelovehowindia]

"Such visits by passengers are not encouraged, but many readers may have made them, and the pattern of the occasion does not vary greatly. There is a rather confusing contrast between the light inside and outside the flight deck, a bewildering display of dials and gauges. Two or more crew members engage the visitor in disjointed conversation, switching on some of the more interesting displays like the radar. The pilots seem to have some desultory radio contact with the ground, and from time to time a hand may be lazily extended to adjust a throttle lever, or correct the automatic pilot. It is an atmosphere of bored disinterestedness, and after the inevitable effort has been made by the passenger to locate which of the many dials is the clock, he returns to the cabin very ready to believe what he has heard about the boring aspects of the pilot's life. Such visits are, especially to people with little imagination, disappointing." (Captain Lincoln Lee: Three Dimensioned Darkness - The World of the Airline Pilot.)

Captain Lee, a BOAC Comet captain, wrote that in 1962. Sums it up very well, eh? However, when the rules prevent people with a genuine interest in being there - air traffic controllers, or the general secretary of BALPA who had to ride the flightdeck of a KLM 777 to appreciate the job that we do - surely it's time for a bit of common sense from the D.of T. Not that I'm holding my breath!

[ExSp33db1rd]

I agree that the cockpit / Flight Deck is no place for Disneyland jolly's, it was my 'office'. How many of those who are bemoaning the loss of their pleasures will tomorrow force their way past the bank teller, with a cheery wave of their hand, saying that they are just going to watch the Manager working in his office ? They'd be thrown out on their ear if they tried it, at the very least.

Nevertheless I did allow visits on occasions, but would often ask the cabin crew for details, approx age, sex, sobriety and to go back and ask why the visit was being requested ? That kept most of them away.

I was once asked to sign a birthday card cobbled up by the cabin crew for a lady passenger. I refused until I had seen her and asked that she be invited to the Flight deck. We will have been married 22 years in April !

.........We saw thousands of people murdered

Yes, 9/11 was a terrible event, ( some might say so was 11 Sept. 1934 - my birthday !! ) but I knew of many more thousands being murdered in London, Bristol, Liverpool, Coventry etc.during 1940 and 1941, but many fellow countrymen of Bravesbaseball ( # 26 ) didn't give a stuff, or even know - until their precious Pearl Harbour was attacked - and Thank God it was, or I could now be speaking German if even still alive, but the geneflucting and hand-wringing and security crap demanded by the present descendants of those same citizens in response to that tragedy, is out of all proportion, and so experienced and professional airline crew are now forbiddden to let even their own family sit in their 'office' should they choose, or take a pair of nail-clippers in their jacket pocket.

Truly the Lunatics are Running the Asylum.

My congratulations to all my ex-colleagues, and their successors, who have restrained themselves whilst still putting up with the airport security nonsense - I'd be in jail for assault by now, and may well still be, as the lady whose birthday card I signed is American - and I still have to visit !! and keeping my cool is increasingly difficult.

[ChristiaanJ]

One of the last Air France Concorde round-the-bays (2003).... and cockpit visits for everyone.

Less than a minute a head, but even that was enough to scan the panels, note the AFCS modes, and generally see the same bits and bobs I had helped develop and test thirty years earlier still doing the job they were designed for.

I was lucky to be among the first, so we were still on the return part of the flight... the rear cabin had to wait until after landing.

I'm glad to this day, that their rules allowed it...

Merci les gars pour une minute inoubliable !

CJ

[411A]

FD visits.

Yes, allowed by our management, with stipulations.
No children under the age of 15...I will have no snot-nosed ankle biters on my FD, thank you (and, make no mistake, it is my flight deck whilst I'm in charge of the flight, IE: Commander), and intelligent questions are answered to the best of our ability...whilst keeping a straight face, that is....:}
Technical questions are referred to our Flight Engineer, the technical store-house of knowledge...that NO flight should be without.
NB.
To those crews that don't have that professional Flight Engineer...your loss is our gain.
Thank you.:ok:

PS.
Forgot to mention, our type is...L1011.
Yes, and we still make a profit with the 'ole girl.

[ExSp33db1rd]

To those crews that don't have that professional Flight Engineer...your loss is our gain.



Absolutely.

[TrafficPilot]

I think it is such a pity that flight deck visits are banned on UK airlines.

When I was a PPL student in '99 I was flying back from Sao Paolo to Gatwick aboard a BA 744. Once I estimated that we had reached TOC I quietly asked one of the CC whether it would be possible to see the flight deck. A few minutes later she returned and ushered me upstairs and into the cockpit!

There I spent most of the remainder of the flight being taught how to use the FMC, TCAS and weather radar. It was a beautiful evening at FL370 over the South Atlantic and it felt quite surreal watching the aircraft progress on the nav display with a fellow BA 74 ahead on the way to Heathrow appearing on TCAS - we could also see his nav lights in the distance through the darkness. A wonderful experience.

[Sassy91]

i was allowed to visit the flight deck and talk with the pilots for at least 2 hours while in cruise. but then again i do have work for that airline (non flying) and have an airline id, plus im half way into my pilot training.
was an amazing experience.