Near-miss as Saudia plane deviates from its flight path

[c46r]

I love the comment from the Saudi Captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Near-miss as Saudia plane deviates from its flight path - dnaindia.com (http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_near-miss-as-saudia-plane-deviates-from-its-flight-path_1314440)

[Paradise Lost]

Loved it! The Saudia Cap'n didn't specify how many pax disturbed the trim on his 747, causing him to "have" to climb 200', but my guess is that 2 of them were queuing for the "bathroom" at the SAME time!

[ManaAdaSystem]

A 200 ft is not even a reportable deviation. I don't know the exact envelope of the TCAS system, but I doubt if 800 ft separation will trigger a RA.

Sounds strange to me.

[arba]

level busted for sure ! but in Euro Control is 300FT , right ?

[ron83]

pax movement:E yeah right

[Captain Oryx]

A 200 ft is not even a reportable deviation. I don't know the exact envelope of the TCAS system, but I doubt if 800 ft separation will trigger a RA.

Sounds strange to me.

Ahh, but as we all know, RATE of closure could also trigger a RA.

Methinks there is more to the story than is being reported. Hmmm!:confused:

[hetfield]

Too many Djinns in the 747.

[Perrin]

I flew as flight mechanic with Saudia in the 80's. Thats the reason I have white hair now!!!!!! I remember the many flights but the ones into Sanna were :ooh:exciting to say the least. Oh the greed of money it makes you do some silly things.
Keep them up boys :ok:

[mutt]

Bloody Europeans, you just cant trust them to do anything!

Mutt

[Nippon1]

SV 801 was being operated by Air Atlanta.......all Dhaka flts for Saudia are operated by AAI using B747-300s

[Skybeds]

passenger movement yea right! whats next? too many fat a pax in the airplane

[leewan]

This must be in the nomination for "The best excuse of the year award.":)
Here's another if the authorities don't buy that:
Could have been two fat pax taking a big dump at the aft lavatory at the same time.

[Xeque]

Prayertime?

[413X3]

being engaged on your laptops is still my favorite excuse

[KENNEDY TOWER]

As the Irish say I think this Capt. is "AWAY WITH THE FAIRIES" to give this as an explanation is quite one for the books "RIPLEYS".:rolleyes:

[Bus429]

While probably not the issue in this occurrence, I can recall an accident in which passenger movement may have caused - or was suspected causal in the chain to the crash - the aircraft to crash; Indian Airlines lost a Caravelle in about 1976 at Mumbai. Engine fire just after take-off; understandable panic in cabin and it is thought many passengers rushed forward as the aircraft approached after turnback; nosed in on the airport. All sadly lost.

[merlinxx]

Just the "Fish Heads" again:E

[soddim]

I have never met a Saudi pilot who would admit to making a mistake. It was always 'Allah's will' or a westerner who did it.

[Intruder]

A 200 ft is not even a reportable deviation.
Our FHB says max 200' altimeter error is allowed in RVSM airspace. However, Appendix G to FAR Part 91 also says a report must be made of any altitude-keeping error or altitude deviation of 300' or more...

[Nashers]

in the cruise i would expect the autopilot is on and the crew would not be hand flying it.

if there is a mistake, they have set the autopilot wrong in the first place or someone has VERY fat fingers and turned the knob by mistake.

centre of gravity....:ugh:

[411A]

I have never met a Saudi pilot who would admit to making a mistake.

Oh, I have, several in fact.
They were new young First Officers on the L1011, and they occasionally could not get the hang of landing with DLC operating...and of course it always did.

I remember one comment in particular...'F***, I did it again, dammit'

Of course, the airplane went WHAM onto the runway...good thing Lockheed bolted the wings on really tight at Palmdale.

After about two hundred hours or so, however, these same First Officers could grease the TriStar on....properly.

I spent a long time at SV, and watched plenty of admitted mistakes by the younger crowd...what they admitted to when they became Commanders I have no idea....and quite possibly a different story.

[Jetjock330]

A 200 ft is not even a reportable deviation

The 200 ft would not set off an RA, but the rate of climb within this 200ft would well trigger an RA (rate of closure calculation, giving a predicted resolve-resolution).

If SV was exceeding say 1500ft a minute rate of climb towards other traffic, for a few seconds from his flight level and in this time gain 200 ft, he would trigger an RA due to the rate of closure. (it's not the 200 ft giving the RA but the rate of closure). They stopped what ever triggered it within 200ft from the flight level!

I am sure the FDR will be unloaded and the truth be told!

[wee one]

I am sure the FDR will be unloaded and the truth be told!

Dont hold your breath with the fish heads or the saudis

[Phantom Driver]

SV 801 was being operated by Air Atlanta.......all Dhaka flts for Saudia are operated by AAI using B747-300s


Amidst all the "anti Saudia pilots" feeding frenzy, noone has seen fit to comment on this statement by poster # 11. Well, anyone care to shed any further (informed) light before we continue along the usual path.....?

[mutt]

TF-AME operated by Air Atlanta on ACMI lease to Saudia.... Therefore nothing to do with any SAUDI pilot!

Photos: Boeing 747-312 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net/photo/Saudi-Arabian-Airlines/Boeing-747-312/1554988/L/&sid=99d41205071f1278cdabad949d51349b)

Don't you just hate it when the facts get released :):)

Mutt

[Desert Diner]

I thought the "fish heads" were already mentioned a few times in the thread

[RoyHudd]

Quite right Mutt. The Saudis are great pilots.

Err.....Gulf War 1 cast a few niggling doubts though....never mind.

[5milesbaby]

Just throwing a bit more into the mix.

The "Saudia" aircraft was at FL340 so could actually be anywhere between FL338 and FL342 as ICAO states that an aircraft is at its level as long as it is within 200ft of that level. The GulfAir could therefore also be at FL348 so although there is full level separation between the 2 craft, actually there may only be 600ft.

I'm guessing that the report has typical media poetic license and the figures they state are just a layman's basic description and actual distances weren't released. If the aircraft did start with only 800ft or even the minimum 600ft and a climb was conducted then it wouldn't be too surprising that TCAS got involved.

Be interesting to see what an official report will say - if one is done and released........ :}

[Farrell]

TF-AME operated by Air Atlanta on ACMI lease to Saudia.... Therefore nothing to do with any SAUDI pilot!

Photos: Boeing 747-312 Aircraft Pictures | Airliners.net

Don't you just hate it when the facts get release

And that comment should be a sticky at the top of every other "incident" thread to come on here in future.

Farrell

[proxus]

Yepp this can happen when you use crews to the likes of Farrell, Desert Diner, wee one, merlinxx etc. which are basically now ex-Atlanta drivers sitting by their computers blaming "fish heads" for everything that has gone wrong in their lifes.

Why were you guys even let into the company in the first place?

[DOVES]

As usual I have to share the opinion of 411A:
The Saudi's pilots are among the best in the world. Their training has originated from many different cultures. We too gave them something of ours.
100 feet tolerance is what I demand from my 'stick and rudder' ATPL course students...

Fly safely
DOVES

[sitigeltfel]

Could it be that this guy went for a stroll round the cabin?

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/sitigeltfel/Fatpax.jpg

[poina]

I trained many Saudi's and expats on A-300 and MD-11, both seats, and most Saudi's would be excellent in any airline in the world. Much easier than the expats to train and remember their language is in completely different characters read right to left. Try that if you're so hot.

[Sable Knight]

As many people have mentioned the flight was not operatted by "locals", but by Air Atlanta crew.

So why the Saudi bashing?

Typical expat trash out of Europe who think they are better than others!

[mutt]

IT WAS AIR ATLANTA............

Although i did giggle today when i heard a female voice call a Saudia callsign.. :)

Mutt............

[Mr HF]

May so be it! Pls have some mercy with the bankrupte island in the northernhemisphere... Ya see iceheads are leaving the country for better greener pasture to Norway,They take any job aviable,specially the job the Polish left.You see icelanders are in the same level as former Rusia immigrants.lituanians,Iclanders,same,same.Cheap labor.The island is in very bad shape.The IMF loan is not helping up much.The application to enter EU would probably be rejected,by the British,that hate them!They are threated bad in Europe and Norway just because some high gamling criminals in iceland destroy the decent living possibilities in the rock.
Now Saudia is late with there payment to AAI so they cant pay salaries on time!well thats what they say anyway...

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The application to enter EU would probably be rejected,by the British,that hate them!
Can't see a problem, provided they give us our money back first.

[sunny11410]

Obviously, there must be few laid off ex Air Atlanta contracted B742 pilots / FE's in this forum. At least this would explain to me the bashing style of some users here.....

I know some details out of the raised ASR and I can tell you that you are bark up on the wrong tree since something happened prior the "overshoot" of 300' over the assigned FL340 which at least gives an explanation why this manouver unfortunately happened.
BTW, it wasn't TF-AME but ATJ.

Concerning the bashing of "Icelandics":
Wasn't aware that a flight crew with US & UK members are called "fishheads".:D

[Freightops]

I must say I like you very much and love flying with you.
If Icelanders are at the bottom of the EU food chain.
Where does that put the contractors who work for the Icelanders?
I must say I like the contractors Ive flown with so far.
I know you have a big mouth. But you are just like a little dog who always barks up the wrong tree.
For some of you it seems to me you still miss AAI.
Yes Mutt we still have some girls flying on SV. The first to fly on SV was a lovely spanish copilot on the -400 who is married to a classic captian.
She is now flying with Aircargo Germany.
We will have to see if Icelanders want to join EU after all. It seems to me that the nation will reject it after all. It is only the Social Democrats who have wet dreams about joining. However the Icelandic Currency is useless and the only reason they look at EU is to get a stronger currency.