Part 66 "A" Licence Limitation

[DaDaDiDit]

I have a Part 66 "A" Licence with Limitation 24 which is "excluding all systems with the exception of LRUs within In Flight Entertainment Systems"can i call myself an Aircraft Engineer or is that stretching things a bit?.

[FMU]

Definitly stretching it a bit. You're an IFE technician!

[DaDaDiDit]

Many thanks FMU,i would appreciate any other comments on this :ok:

[IFixPlanes]

Category A: Line maintenance certifying mechanic.
Category B1: Maintenance certifying technician - mechanical.
Category B2: Maintenance certifying technician - avionic.
Category C: Base maintenance certifying engineer

[DaDaDiDit]

Thank you IFixPlanes,most of the people i work with are "A" Licence,some of them with a lot of experience of fixing aircraft,and there is a few B2 Licence people and a few A & P but everybody says they are Aircraft Engineers,i didnt want to class myself as that if it was the wrong term to use.:ok:

[jmig29]

Small Correction:

Certifying Staff A, B1, B2 and C are all "Ground Engineers". Which is different from what we may call "Civil Engineers". These come from outside the aviation School and may obtain a degree in "C" upon certain requirements, but will never (because he never had to run all the books and practical experience specific to aviation) have the proficiency of a true A, B or C Ground Engineer. On the other hand the Ground Engineer certifying C, is the same as a B, except for a different scope of work (Base maintenance) and he is helped by the so called "B (1 or 2) Support Staff to C" to check all the items on a "C-Check", for example.
"A" certifying staff are not allowed to perform troubleshooting, for example.

Hope this has helped.

[DaDaDiDit]

Thank you jmig,i did not realise they were not allowed to fault find,well at least outwith IFE.

[celtic mech]

Straight from the horses Mouth:

66.A.20 Privileges
(a) Subject to compliance with paragraph (b), the following privileges shall apply:
1. A category A aircraft maintenance licence permits the holder to issue certificates of release to service following
minor scheduled line maintenance and simple defect rectification within the limits of tasks specifically endorsed
on the authorisation. The certification privileges shall be restricted to work that the licence holder has personally
performed in a Part-145 organisation.
2. A category B1 aircraft maintenance licence shall permit the holder to issue certificates of release to service
following maintenance, including aircraft structure, powerplant and mechanical and electrical systems. Replacement
of avionic line replaceable units, requiring simple tests to prove their serviceability, shall also be included in
the privileges. Category B1 shall automatically include the appropriate A subcategory.
3. A category B2 aircraft maintenance licence shall permit the holder to issue certificates of release to service
following maintenance on avionic and electrical systems.
4. A category C aircraft maintenance licence shall permit the holder to issue certificates of release to service
following base maintenance on aircraft. The privileges apply to the aircraft in its entirety in a Part-145 organisation.


In Relation to your Cat A with Limitation 24 which is "excluding all systems with the exception of LRUs within In Flight Entertainment Systems"...you can troubleshoot in as far as something like Replacing a File Server etc( or whatever other LRU) if its known to be the cause of a problem. But you cant do troubleshooting like a B2 can...i.e wiring checks etc to confirm the fault and actually sign a CRS to this extent. Also you would not be allowed to do something like repair wiring etc as this is outside the scope of your licence.

[jmig29]

I think it is widely accepted (I think there is an NPA on this) that this concept falls under the "10-steps" from the begginning of the work up to the completion (includes Testing). Which is not much.

But then again, I may be wrong...

[DaDaDiDit]

Thank you both jmig29 and Celtic Mech,the bottom line seems to be the we are not all Aircraft Engineers whilst working on IFE systems (only),the B2 Engineers are and probably the A & Ps as well.This should start a decent crew room discussion.:)

[DaDaDiDit]

Thank you ASFKAP.The A & Ps are quite touchy on this subject and i have no wish to start WW3,I just wanted enough information to have a meaningful discussion about who has the right to call themself an Aircraft Engineer, and i would like to thank all of you who have contributed,i now have enough information to start a crew room conversation which should prove quite interesting.:ok:

[Dodo56]

If you really want to get them going raise the subject that the title "Engineer" is legally protected in many countries, but not in the UK where anyone down to the bloke who fixes your washing machine can call himself an engineer.

Controversies over the term Engineer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_over_the_term_Engineer)

[DaDaDiDit]

Thanks Dodo56 that was a really good link you posted.I have printed it out to use:ok:

[win_faa]

celtic mech
66.A.20 Privileges
(a) Subject to compliance with paragraph (b), the following privileges shall apply:
1. A category A aircraft maintenance licence permits the holder to issue certificates of release to service following
minor scheduled line maintenance and simple defect rectification within the limits of tasks specifically endorsed
on the authorisation. The certification privileges shall be restricted to work that the licence holder has personally
performed in a Part-145 organisation.

Lets say in line maintenance, three different tasks are to be performed on one particular aircraft e.g. B747-400, one task involves replacement of windscreen wiper blades, another task involves replacement of wheel assemblies, and another task involves replacement of ovens. Each of these task was performed by three different persons holding the CAT A privileges with appropriate task training and authorisation. The question is, who among the three CAT A holders would issue the aircraft CRS? Hope somebody could shed light on this matter

[Tinwacker]

who among the three CAT A holders would issue the aircraft CRS? Hope somebody could shed light on this matter

Going on a limb and saying None as CAT 'A' can only sign for his/her own work.

TW

[IFixPlanes]

Hi win_faa, you quote the answer already:


... The certification privileges shall be restricted to work that the licence holder has personally performed in a Part-145 organisation.

So you need a CAT B or CAT C to give a CRS at this situation.

[Blacksheep]

In UK you are an Engineer if you are registered with the Engineering Council as either a Chartered Engineer or an Incorporated Engineer. You can also be registered as a Technician. In which category an individual may be registered depends upon training, qualifications, experience and position held.

An A License holder will almost certainly not be an Engineer.

I'm still an Aircraft Engineer, even though I no longer hold any licenses at all. At one stage in my career I was a UK CAA LAME and Hangar Foreman, responsible for supervisory oversight of heavy maintenance on complex aircraft, which would today be a 'C' Licensed position -but that was twenty years ago; I've moved on a bit since then.

[win_faa]

66.A.20 Privileges
(a) Subject to compliance with paragraph (b), the following privileges shall apply:
1. A category A aircraft maintenance licence permits the holder to issue certificates of release to service following
minor scheduled line maintenance and simple defect rectification within the limits of tasks specifically endorsed
on the authorisation. The certification privileges shall be restricted to work that the licence holder has personally
performed in a Part-145 organisation.

In my understanding of the regulation above, a CAT A can issue an "Aircraft" Certificate of Release to Service i.e sign the aircraft tech log after performing task like replacement of windscreen wiper blades on a B747-400 as long as the person has been trained for such task and he is authorised for such task without the need of getting type rated on the aircraft. Please correct me if im wrong.

[IFixPlanes]

But the CAT A can only release his own work. So in your above written scenario (Post #16) with 2 or more CAT A have done work on one A/C, you need a CAT B1.

[win_faa]

^^ thank you for the enlightening :ok:

[jmig29]

I don't think Cat "C" certifying staff are allowed to issue an CRS on Line Maintenance environment...:confused:

On the other hand an "A" Cat can CRS for an Transit Inspection (IF no defaults or snags in the logbook were found), but not for a daily or weekly check / inspection.

[win_faa]

Yes that's right, a CAT C can only issue a CRS following base maintenance.

Another question here, Lets say a B747-400 is on a line maintenance. One task needs to be performed by a B1 and another tasks needs to be performed by a B2, both are type rated and authorised for the aircraft, who among them issues the "aircraft" CRS? :confused:

[spannersatcx]

On the other hand an "A" Cat can CRS for an Transit Inspection (IF no defaults or snags in the logbook were found), but not for a daily or weekly check / inspection.

They can sign for a daily.

Another question here, Lets say a B747-400 is on a line maintenance. One task needs to be performed by a B1 and another tasks needs to be performed by a B2, both are type rated and authorised for the aircraft, who among them issues the "aircraft" CRS?

Either.

[kingstonboy]

First post everyone so be gentle, so in essence am i to beleive that an `A` licence guy can only release an aircraft if ,and this is the crux, they and they alone have worked the aircraft ? ie no other signatures in the book,books ? if so can someone please supply any relevant details ,as my company surely do not operate A licence working in this way !

[jmig29]

Cat C can NOT sign for a daily or weekly. They can however sign for A-Checks, which can also be performed by Line Maint personnel. In other words, depending on the company's structure, you can have a certain amount of B1, B2 staff certifying the several tasks from the A-Check, and in the end you may or not need to have a C cat signing off the Check. As long as the individual tasks were independently written in the LB, you don't need a C to certify.

On the other hand, you may have those individual tasks grouped in a package (internal protocol) and then you DO need a C cat cert. staff to sign off the A-Check.

But I think daily and weekly checks are out of the C scope.

As for the A cat, he can sign off is own work, as long as it does not involve troubleshooting (tasks involving less than 10 steps may not qualify for T/S scope)

:ok: