Cabin Crew Walking Around During The Landing

[lambert]

Had an interesting experience on landing in Toulouse last night - the cabin crew were blissfully unaware untill after the flare that we were about to land. They quickly started clawing their way to their seats at the rear of the aircraft as soon as they felt the gear contact the runway!

How does the cockpit crew ensure that this doesn't happen?

[EpsilonVaz]

10 minutes to landing PA: "Cabin crew prepare the cabin for landing".

First item on landing checklist: "Cabin ...secure" (that means that have secured the cabin, strapped themselves in and called you).

So pretty much just effective company SOPs.

[p51guy]

I was on a Mexicana DC10 hour and a half flight once and descending into Miami noticed we were below 10,000 ft. and the flight attendants still had their carts in the isle, everyone had all their plates and glasses on the tray and they weren't picking up. I told the FA we would land in about 8 minutes. She ran to the interphone and called the cockpit. They were still in the aisles with plates and glasses on trays when we landed. Once they touched down there was not much point in going to their jump seat.

[p51guy]

I have never heard of a procedure if people are standing on approach and landing. I think it is up to the captain what to do. I was below 1,000 ft one day and the FA called saying a pax was in the lav. I said ok and landed using light braking. It seemed like the safest thing to do. We don't need a procedure for everything. One day we knew we had a big chunk of ice on the fuselage when the lav servicing door wasn't latched properly. We were landing at SLC in the winter so it was still on the fuselage when we parked. We would have a very thick manual if we had procedures for every possible event.

[DA50driver]

Are you saying that the PIC must actually be able to make some decisions on his own without consulting the company via phone/email/fax/radio for the bean-counters guidance?

I am horrified that a professional pilot may have such independent thoughts. This is not in accordance with the CRM concept, and must be changed immediately. How can management control the masses if they start thinking and making decisions? Follow the SOP religiously, even if it takes you into a hole without smoke. The smoke will be added later if determined to be needed and cost effective.

[SeenItAll]

Was on a CO DC10 about 15 years ago from EWR to SFO. Captain didn't announce "Cabin crew be seated for takeoff" until plane was turning onto the runway and about 2 seconds before the throttles were advanced.

Crew had to struggle up the aisles to their seats in front -- fighting both the acceleration of the plane and the incline created as the fuselage tilted up. Only about half made it. The rest just had to grab onto passenger seats to remain standing.

Either Captain just forgot to give adequate warning for the announcement, or it was that very rare case (especially at EWR) of there being absolutely no taxiing delays or conga line of planes waiting to take off.

[Otto Throttle]

It's not neccessarily all about having all crew strapped into their crew seats for their own welfare, but a requirement that crew are at their assigned crew stations in the event that an emergency evacuation is required. It's going to be pretty difficult to initiate it safely from the centre of your average narrowbody cabin.

It's nothing to do with SOPs and more to do with legal requirements. But work away as you see fit commanders. :ok:

[winstonsmith]

Tolouse? Was it BA you flew with?

Crew should been advised, regardless of airline (?), to be seated after the cabin has been secured and the CSD or PSR has given this notification to the flight crew.

Still, there are some crew who can't be bothered to take their seat when advised. It's pretty much the same when the CSD or PSR does the PA for crew to be seated for take off and not listening. Instead they are chatting away in the galley, until they get the signal in the cabin that the aircraft is turning out on the runway, and having to run to their seat. Very professional!

[Clandestino]

I would like to add that in some airlines the procedure is to go-around when the 'cabin secure' has not been received, while in others the procedure is to land anyway as they say a go-around is a more 'brutal' manoeuvre than a normal landing...
Fly safe!

1) Not in mine. Unless "Cabin ready for landing" has been received, approach can not be commenced. You can not go-around from arrival, only from approach.

2) Go-around is absolutely non-brutal maneuver. Anyone claiming otherwise is talking nonsense, intentionally or not.

I was below 1,000 ft one day and the FA called saying a pax was in the lav. I said ok and landed using light braking. It seemed like the safest thing to do.

Anyone taking a walk around or going into toilet during approach and landing on my aeroplane is a) doing it against the crew's advice b) recklessly endangering oneself c) violating local air law. Only special consideration given to said person is assuring that (s)he doesn't fly with my company ever again.

It's not neccessarily all about having all crew strapped into their crew seats for their own welfare, but a requirement that crew are at their assigned crew stations in the event that an emergency evacuation is required. It's going to be pretty difficult to initiate it safely from the centre of your average narrowbody cabin.

It's nothing to do with SOPs and more to do with legal requirements. But work away as you see fit commanders

Was this supposed to be funny? As in: attempt to violate first Newton's law are punishable with severe blunt force trauma?

[lowcostdolly]

Winstonsmith- spot on about some crew who can't be bothered to take their seats when appropriate. As a Pu I get sick of having to deal with this on a frequent basis at my outfit. Our SOP's are non negotiable on this and the cabin secure checks but some can't seem to grasp the importance of this.

Ottothrottle - it's everything to do with SOP's. All companies have different SOP's to ensure the CC are where they should be on landing, the cabin and galley are properly secured and the F/D so advised.

A few weeks ago I was on a flight as a pax seated near the rear galley on a well known charter carrier. The "cabin and galley secure" had been passed as I heard this.

At this point there were trolleys and boxes out in the galley as the crew were sealing the bars and crew food was still in the process of being consumed on the run. The galley was hardly secure.

"Seats for landing" was given by the flight crew at which point I heard "oh Sh:mad:t" from one of the FA's as she legged it to her seat at 3 doors. The other two were left throwing bottles of crew water,food and computers into atlas boxes. They were strapping in as the wheels hit the runway.

I don't know what the SOP's are in this company but the cabin (if they include the galley in this) was not secure when the check was passed and the rear FA's were not strapped in on approach. The F/D would have thourght all was well I'm sure.

Some CC seem oblivious to their role and responsibilities at this point in flight. I don't know what the answer is to this.

[Otto Throttle]

You've missed the point. The CC are not seated for take off and landing because your company SOP says so. They're seated for take off and landing because the law says so. Your SOPs are a reflection of what you are legally required to do as an absolute minimum.

But what do I know. :rolleyes:

[Clandestino]

Some CC seem oblivious to their role and responsibilities at this point in flight. I don't know what the answer is to this.

It's because world is getting stupider every second. Look no further than this thread for the proof.

For a :mad:'s sake! That everyone should be securely strapped for approach and landing was made law because some aerospace professionals were to ignorant to fully grasp the relevance of inertia and were also too unimaginative to realize that the person tumbling through the cabin and breaking various appendages in the process due to sudden deceleration (wheel collapse, rwy excursion or heavy landing can cause that) might as well be one of them!

[Old Smokey]

A well established and observed set of SOPs should do the trick. In our operation, the CC receive 2 instructions, both of which MUST be acknowledged, i.e.

Top of Descent - "Cabin Crew prepare for arrival" (Acknowledged)

At 5000 ft AGL - "Cabin Crew to landing stations (Acknowledged).

If there's no acknowledgement, call the CC directly to confirm the instruction and their status, if they are not yet prepared for landing, DO NOT LAND!

I recently had a passenger go to the loo during approach, with one of the cabin crew on their feet trying to get him to return to his seat. The only solution - GO AROUND (and charge the sod for his $5000 cr@p).:}

Regards,

Old Smokey

[stilton]

That would have been the Second Officer's job 'Seen it all' to make the take off & landing announcements that is.


At the time many of these S/O's (on the Flight Engineer's panel) particularly on the widebodies were retired Captains able to continue in this seat until age 70 !


Some of them were sharp, others..

[JW411]

I believe they were known as "ROPES" (Retired Old Pilot - Engineer's Station).

[Caudillo]

Must be doing massive go-arounds if it costs $5000 a pop, that's what, 8 tons worth more or less? Wow. And all those confirmations, how about we get some sort of signed disclaimer while we're at it? Only solution, just to make double sure.