Culture and safety

[Mr Optimistic]

Didn't know where to post this so apologies if in wrong place. Just watched an interview with an author called Malcolm Gladwell. In his book Outliers he says this

What's the most surprising pattern you uncovered in the book? It's probably the chapter nearly the end of Outliers where I talk about plane crashes. How good a pilot is, it turns out, has a lot to do with where that pilot is from—that is, the culture he or she was raised in. I was actually stunned by how strong the connection is between culture and crashes, and it's something that I would never have dreamed was true, in a million years.
Anyone recommend this as a read ?

[Huck]

Yes, definitely.

The entire book is fascinating. How circumstance shapes supposed talent.

The crash he studies is the KAL Guam 747 CFIT accident. The captain ignored the oblique hints the copilot and F/E were giving him.

I remember at one point they went IMC on approach. The F/O obviously wanted to turn on the radar, but didn't have the guts, so he said the Korean version of "Radar has been very useful to us in the past."

When the tide turned at KAL and they brought in a Delta guy to fix flight ops the first thing he did was require English to be spoken in the cockpits - a much more "democratic" language.....

[alf5071h]

I cannot comment on ‘Outliers’, but if the style and message is similar to Gladwell's previous book ‘Blink’ then I would have reservations.
Blink appears to be written either intentionally or otherwise, with a bias towards Gladwell’s cultural objectives.
Alternatively, the book ‘Think’ presents an interesting rebuttal of ‘Blink’ whilst considering the more fundamental, underlying aspects of behavior.
I suspect that similar books on the theory of culture in aviation would be of greater value – avoiding any bias from specific accident scenarios. For this reason, I would not recommend ‘Culture at Work in Aviation and Medicine’ (Helmreich & Merritt) either; although I do find the research papers on culture by the eminent authors are of value.

Building on the three cultures of aviation. (http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/HelmreichLAB/Publications/pubfiles/Pub236.pdf)

Dominant and minority culture obligations. (http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/HelmreichLAB/publications/636.doc)

[turbocharged]

Can I just endorse what alf said. Gladwell is a great communicator but it is clear, at times, that he hasn't always studied his subject in depth. His discussion of the policeman shooting a criminal in Blink is a good example of a lack of understanding of the effects of stress on performance.

The 'culture' debate in aviation is still rooted in the work of Hofstede. The book by Helmreich and co simply replicates the approach without asking if the initial concept is sound.

So, take it all with a pinch of salt

[Essexmush]

It's a great book, a 'must' read. I've been telling others about that Chapter "The Ethnic Theory of Plane Crashes" Book published by Penguin. ISBN 978-1-846-14121-8 :ok:

[DERG]

The book matches my personal experience. I could write a 1000 words on this subject. In conclusion the best communication skills for me are in NYC.:ok:

[Jetlegs]

Worth the read as long as you don´t put your own common sense on hold.

[Centaurus]

The moment religious culture influences operational decisions, the risk of an accident must surely increase.

[turbocharged]

The USA has one of the highest levels of regular church attendance and 44% of Americans believe the book of Genesis over Darwinian explanations of evolution. What conclusions should we draw from that in terms of safety?

[Rwy in Sight]

Should also be taken in consideration (for the case of the USA at least) the character of the religion. If a religion encourages people to act for themselves it may have a positive impact on the safety for people that are, lets say, more religious.

On the other hand if a religion promotes the idea that if "God wants" then people will stop thinking and re-acting to the problem and "trust God" to sort it out. In this case there is a problem.

Not sure if it is possible for an airline in a country with little safety culture can have a good record on safety critical industries.

Rwy in Sight

[4Greens]

Check out " Attitude or Latitude - Australian aviation safety" by Graham Braithwaite for some definitive answers.

[Romeo India Xray]

I have not read the books in question, but I can concur that there is an apparent link between culture and flight safety (in my experience). I was raised in the British culture with regard to flight safety before moving out to the Eastern fringes of the continent. Since being out here I have worked heavily in assessment of flight crew performance and CRM.

General attitudes here are cavalier in their approach to safety. You find the vast majority of road users are on some kind of suicide mission. This attitude is then not necessarily left in the car when the flight crew get to the airport. It is supported by a (now thankfully ageing) structure of certain examiners who regard the ability to fly "on the edge" as a demonstration of superior flying ability and as thus, something to be praised. Unsurprisingly, some members of these crews (C172 up to B737) then take comfort in these supportive attitudes to their flying and thus take them into the air - SOP is a general guideline, published procedures are for the benefit of the authority only etc. You simply don't find that in the UK. Back in the UK, I have seen many microlight pilots with a more professional attitude to their flying than many CPLs here.

In conclusion. Yes, it is a cultural thing.

RIX

[Burr Styers]

Hi Rix,

Whilst I think it is now more widely accepted, that different cultures do have a different take on "Safety" and their attitude towards it,Are you able to substantiate that in any objective way ?

I know this is a very difficult area, trying to put the abstract (culture and attitudes) into the tangible (numbers), as the next step of human nature will be to analyse it, and make tables/leagues/listings etc, and what that could lead to, is probably a whole other discussion.

The other side of this coin is,...... is there something that you think we (Uk/EU land) could learn from the culture that prevails where you are ?

Just Curious

BS

[wileydog3]

Gladwell walks down many of the same paths as in Blink and The Tipping Point. Well written but mostly useful for conversation at parties and nothing new for students of CRM and cultures.

For example each airline has its own culture and it can vary considerably. It is just just the country of origin but the attitude within that specific culture. Kern addresses this in his books and also in his latest, Blue Threats.

For example, there was a 'commuter' line in the US (before they were 'regionals') and part of their culture was they made it in regardless of the wx. Others would miss but not this carrier. A few arrived with tree branches in the gear and the can-do culture continued until they wadded one up killing a bunch of pax.

A lot of the culture is simply what is acceptable. In a recent aviation magazine the writer noted the cost of WWII measured in losses (manpower and airplanes). If I remember correctly the US was losing 10 airplanes a day along with crews and that was just stateside and just in training. More than 300 airplanes lost EACH MONTH. Obviously not something one could tolerate for even a year now but then.. it was an acceptable cost for that culture.

Also, Gladwell brings his political and social biases with him. As others have said, a nice read but no great revelations and certainly not profound.

[Pro1966]

Further on from RIX,

Previously I had come across some poor CRM/Human Factors within the industry in Africa but generally not in training. But now have witnessed first hand very poor practices in line training, to the point that safety of flights were been put to the test! and the attitude, well thats how we do it here!

The thought process here seems to be that the more hours make you a safe pilot, that's all very well and good but if you have the wrong attitude along with poor training of the trainers the hours are wasted.

[Tee Emm]

There is one major regional LLC airline overseas to the NW of Australia (have to word this carefully because it is true) that directs its crews not to log any flying over the statutory 110 hours a month - which is why 140 hours a month is common practice. A pilot who takes a sick day is docked salary.

[gobbledock]

There is one major regional LLC airline overseas to the NW of Australia (have to word this carefully because it is true) that directs its crews not to log any flying over the statutory 110 hours a month - which is why 140 hours a month is common practice. A pilot who takes a sick day is docked salary.

Aagh yes my friend,I know exactly who that operator is. I cant believe they are still doing that after all this time. Seems like some things never change :ugh:

[The Dominican]

I know exactly who that operator is. I cant believe they are still doing that after all this time. Seems like some things never change

If pilots keep doing it, Why would they change?

[Pro1966]

How you are brought up will generally effect your attitude to safety. If you start at infant school within a safety enviroment and this is continued within school, I believe you will in general take that into your future life.