Maun 2009/10 season

[atispilot]

Consider all the other options.

If you have some money to spend try get a Kind Air or 1900 rating.

I went to Sefofani in Bots and Namibia when they were taking and still
got screwed around. Then landed myself a decent E120 job for being diligent paying at least 5 times more up on contract.

Look most guys say its worth going and getting the experience but I think it just wasted extra money I could have put toward the turbine ratings which paid off big time at the end anyways.

Good luck!:ok:

[lilflyboy262]

Its safe. Botswana is the only country in africa that has never had a civil war. Only worries you have is that you need to keep your fly closed, or it wrapped up as HIV is very prevalent here.
You have about as much chance as anybody else in getting a job here. You just need to show up and prove why you are better than everyone else and why you should get hired over them.

Age doesnt matter, although the normal age does seem to be around 20.

Bush flying is a great way to get your hours up, gaurenteed that you will have at least 1500hrs more than what you came here with before you leave, and with a few hundred hours on turbine with the caravan.
Fantasic place to really learn how to land a plane, making command decisions etc etc.

@Atis. Your first mistake was going to Sefo.

[Rico 25]

I have to agree with Atis and Lilflyboy about Sefofane.

I have heard through other pilots around Maun that anyone recruited by them needs to watch their backside at all times. Basically they watch you like a hawk and then wait for you to screw something up. They then haul you into the office, put the blame on you then fire you and make out that everything is your fault when they were intending to get rid of you anyways! Some of the management are a nasty piece of work-I would suggest new guys to ask for advice from other pilots first when looking for a flying job.

[morgan32]

One that have never been asked I think ..

Any problem about weight ? I' m kind of a big pilot, does anybody knows if it could be a problem for hiring in Maun

Thanks

[lilflyboy262]

Weights not that much of a issue. There is a few big boned pilots around here.
Heaviest would be around 100kg.

[morgan32]

Ok that's just me then ...

See you in december

[CCUaviator]

Some one asked in this forum I remember that why ain't any Indian pilots working in Maun. I have the reason now.. They dont give a visa for more than a month, and even then for a month they are asking me what am gonna see there for 30 days.. :*
Am still after it and even if its for 15 days am going to come down as I have nothing else to do, though I know my chances are almost nil in that time. :ugh:

Cheers

[morgan32]

Maybe you will be able to extend it when you get there ....

[CCUaviator]

Even am hoping for that Morgan.. Keeping my fingers crossed....:oh:

[Csanad007]

Just get there and then try to sort out things on the ground, last time I was there some guys stayed for 6 months with tourist visas, always extending them...

[CCUaviator]

Thanks Csanad,
Thanks for the info bro. This makes me even more motivated now.. Thanks again...a big thanks.:E

Cheers:ok:

[soakingpilot]

What types of equipment have guys had on the ground in Maun?

I am looking at getting a new tent and sleeping bag as I dont own them and have tons of choices. I know its hot hot right now so I guess people are just using cheap synthetic sleeping bag and tents with a raincover and base. Any tips advice on equipment to bring

Synthetic vs Down Sleeping bags?

Thanks all.

[CCUaviator]

get a tent that will allow some air to get inside.. that is very imp I think...

[CBR]

Hello all,

Does anyone know if there would be a problem with immigration if only getting a single (non return) flight from Jo burg to maun with no proof of onward travel?

CBR

[soakingpilot]

A follow up to my previous post is how wet exactly is the season between Novemer to Feb ish in Maun. I can see online the amount of rainfall but has anyone found it oppressive and getting their stuff soaked constantly or whats going on.

Thanks.

[Jim-J]

CBR - check out IATA website with regards to Personalized passports, Visa & health travel documents...... May help?

IATA - Personalised Passport, Visa & Health travel documentation advice (http://www.iatatravelcentre.com)

Chow

[lilflyboy262]

Soaking. For the rainfall.... To simulate it, put the garden hose on your tent for a while.
I suggest that you get one that has a bit of a step between the floor and where the tent door zips over as flooding does occur regularly. Be smart and dont put your tent up at the bottom of a slope. If you do have to put it on a slope, put it so the door is facing downhill (water wont flow into the tent but you can face a bit of a problem if it starts to flood back up the slope.)
You will have things get damp. You will end up with sand all through your tent. You will end up with ants through your tent. But you get used to it!


As for the tickets issue. Well its up to you really. You can say you are intending on getting upto Kasane and travelling across the border by road. But some times depending on the customs agent and how they are feeling that day, they may or may not believe you.
You can do it without a return ticket, but thats a risk you have to take. Just be ready with the funds available to buy a ticket.

Just remember, they arent totally stupid. They know what goes on at this time of the year and young guys travelling alone asking for a 90 day visa with no return ticket does end up begging the question.

[soakingpilot]

hey to someone who may know do we need a police clearance certificate still in bots and nam? Coming from the USA

Thanks.

[lilflyboy262]

I didnt need one, but got one anyway just in case.

[Csanad007]

It is funny because I did not need one either, but my collegue just got his work permit rejected because he did not supply a police clearence. TIA: he's been flying in Nam for more then a year and until now he had no such problems. So the best thing is to be prepared to any bureaucratic crap. Have stamps all over and have certified copies of everything as well as police clearence!

[ppragman]

Still wanna go to africa, still can't figure out how to get there.

[Whiteknight68]

Hi,

Try Tanzania if you have experience on a Caravan. A friend of mine is there and really happy about his job. They require Africa experience but you could try it.

:ok:

[Csanad007]

just like averybody else, hop on a plane get here, do a couple of rounds and you might end up with a job. Not to mention that is quite a fantastic experience even if you don't end up with a job...

[ppragman]

@Csand007 Gotta get money for that, but that's the plan, I needed Caravan Experience, I'm getting that now, next is money.

@Whiteknight

Yeah, I'd like to, but I don't have the money to go over there right now without a promise of a job. So, until I can save up some moolah, and do another year or so here, I'll be sittin' tight.

[Csanad007]

You don't really need Van experience. I do not know about your hours, sorry am lazy to read back, not to mention the expensive internet here in Nam... But if you can go along with starting on a C206 or 210 then there's not too much of thinking. At least it worked for me, and quite a couple of other guys.

[Kelvin757]

One of our client, a new private charter operator in Uganda is looking for C210 type rated pilots to work on contract. you need to have at least 500TT and a type rating. (4 positions for FO only).

Dash-8 contract Captain job available in Africa. At least 300 PIC on type.( 1 positions)

PM me for more details

. I also got few more jobs that will be available in Africa, Indonesia and Middle east. PM me if interested. Note: We wont consider pilots with less than 500TT.

[lilflyboy262]

Pay? Hours per year? Chance of upgrading into?

Also, do you need 2 crew for the C210?

@ppragman. Don't waste your time on the caravan hours, but if you insist, just get a basic type rating on it. You won't be allowed to go straight onto the van as you usually need to be in the company for a year, and you will be stepping all over the seniority rank.

[Kelvin757]

@lilflyboy262

Actually our client asked for First officers but you will quickly fly as pilot in command in no time.( I would say after getting 100 hrs on type). The operator got 2 captains, the FOs would be flying along with these captains till they get few experience.

Salary will be around 700 Euros a month, Accommodation, Transport and meal allowance inclusive.6 month contract (Renewable). You will be doing a lot of flying, So a lot of hours!

Only 2 position left now. ( I got a pilot through Pprune!!!!!)

[AutopilotEngage]

G'day Fella's

Around 2 weeks until I arrive in Maun. Just looking for any info at all about what the situation is looking like this year? Are many pilots looking to leave/have left? Have any of the companies hired as yet? I notice an addition to Mack Air's staff page of one fella in September. Did any other companies hire anyone early like that? Just any info would be appreciated.

Any last minute things I should make sure to pack? (The kind of stuff most people forget? Beer money is sorted! Don't worry I've read all of the other threads) Would you guys recommend bringing a stack of paper Resume's? (I would imagine a border official wouldn't be too happy finding these though)

Look forward to seeing you all at the Audi :ok:

[lilflyboy262]

@Kelvin, I just find it strange that you will have 2 crew operating on a six seat aircraft.
Hot and high altitudes and short strips will usually end up with 5 people total on board.
Smells fishy to only have 3 pax on board.

@ Autopilot.
Yes bring paper resume. Mack Air just hired 1 more but he was a good friend of the chief pilot.

[aviatormohit]

@kevin757
My name is Mohit Verma. I'm an Indian National.
my experience: 1300 TT, 230 Multi, 885 Dual Given
FAA CPL, CFI, CFII, MEI, AGI, IGI, Gold Seal
looking forward to some bush flying experience.
do u think i can land up with a job there?

[morgan32]

That's it

Flight ticket are bought for my friend and I (not refundable !)

Arriving to maun the 13 of december direct to Audi camp.

Can't wait to arrive

Cheers!! :)

[matc]

Flight ticket are bought for my friend and I

I hope your friend is not a pilot looking for a job too. You're creating yourself unnecessary competition...I thought about bringing a jobless fellow pilot with me but then I realized it would be a stupid idea...

[morgan32]

Yes he is a pilot looking for a job,

we already have a job in france but we both want to experience a bit of change

It is not a competition for us but a way to have a lot of fun together.

Your coming too ?

[Gust12]

I just found this on another forum, I'm also planning to go find work... Just hope this permit issue won't be a problem.

From Avcom :
guys,

i came to maun on 14 august this year and was fortunate enough to find work within a week.
that was the easy part, trust me!

permits, PERMITS, permits! therein lies the problem.

it took 3 months of beaurocratic red tape to get my permit, and my wife just found out that hers was declined.
this means that my salary wont be enough to cover our living expenses for the both of us, but i'm going off on a tangent now.
along with my wife who got declined, 3 other pilots who were offered jobs at the same company as me also got their permits declined, even though their applications were sent in at the exact time as mine. so i guess, i was extremely fortunate.

in short, there are lots of jobs in maun right now. people are leaving left right and centre, but the problem is this;
the botswana government is adament that no more expats will get flying jobs (and other jobs)untill all the local pilots have been employed first.
how many local pilots are there?
well, the CAAB, under instruction of the botswna government, has handed a 4 page list of unemployed local pilots to all the charter companies in maun at a meeting last week.

if you were in maun right now you'd ask where all these pilots are, and why are the charter companies reluctant to employ locals?
the answer - the newly qualified botswana pilots are sitting at home in gaberone (or wherever else). they are not prepared to do legwork and come up here like the many eager pilots from all around the wolrd who have taken the leap of faith to travel to a foreign country halfway around the world and against all odds to find work. they expect the charter companies to contact them.
in addition to that they expect to be given airline jobs with zero experience on their behalf. maun doesnt appeal to them, it's dusty, hot, hard work, 6 days a week.

i guess this is symptomatic of the whole of africa to sit and wait for the top job to come to you, and if it doesnt, create legislation to force people to do business with you.
that may be how you do business in africa, but the people who come to the delta are tourists from the 1st world who pay top dollar for that privelage, who expect 1st world service, and 1st world business practices.
the charter companies generally also have a 1st world outlook on the way they do business, and therefore they cannot employ people who have a notoriety for always being late (just look at air botswana), who have a poor safety record, or who expect to be contacted by prospective employers while they sit at home and play playstation.

it's a sad sad situation.
there are people who want to do the work but are refused permits, and there are people who dont want to do the work, but who will be given it.

so, i'm sorry to burst the bubbles of all the aspiring pilots out there, but maun right now is a total waste of time as you wont get a work and residency permit even if you have the best qualifications money can buy (not that jobs are allocated on merit anyway as someone mentioned before).

[Potential]

I've heard from someone currently in Maun that already there are around 30 pilots in town looking for work. That is a lot of people for not many jobs! There could easily be over 50 by the end of December, so it could become very difficult to stand out from my crowd, especially as a latecomer. Maybe it's best to wait for another year...:{

[Chewy99]

Wow..that sounds great. Kinda feels like I just got socked in the gutt.:rolleyes:
Have been going like gangbusters to get everything sorted out in time for this season but kinda sounds grimmmm.

[darkroomsource]

@ Potential
Who's the someone? Are they actually in Maun? having read through the past 10 years worth of posts about Maun, I wouldn't be surprised if there were 30 pilots there, but then I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't either (ie. it might just be a rumor).

According to one person who's on-line there, the "list" of pilots that are unemployed locals, that's supposedly 4-pages long, is actually 4-pilots long. But maybe it is best to wait for another year.

I'm committed, based on actions taken, to the end of January, so I'll be there pounding the dust, and when I get there I'll let you know how many pilots there are looking for work.

-Andy

[Chewy99]

Heres hoping it's not as bad as it sounds. Just have to let it ride a week or two and see if the same reports are coming back???
I can handle the 30-50 pilots looking for work but the permit thing is terrible news.

[Kash360]

How many gents are in town looking for work, round 2, lets do this, see you at the Bon

[Potential]

My information that there are around 30 people in town comes direct from 3 separate people who are on the ground in Maun now.

Are you going back this year Kash? I read your thread with great interest last time round.

[darkroomsource]

Thanks Potential!
Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised either way, I've heard that some years in the past there's been as many as 60. And with all the talk here about it, and the circumstances, economy, etc., I can see where there might be more this year than last.

I'm not too worried about how many people are there right now, I'm still planning on getting there the end of January. However, I have dreamed of flying in Africa for longer than some of you have been alive, I think (first started thinking about it in 1981), been preparing for it since I got my PPL in 1991, but life happens, kids, work, etc. etc. etc. Finally the kids are all out of the house, and I am able to follow my dream. (Like any of you actually really want to hear this - but I'm leading up to something, so stick with me)

So for me, this is an adventure that will be the culmination of many years of reading, thinking, and dreaming. And if I get a job flying, well, all the better.

Meanwhile, for the rest of you, I think you should seriously consider whether or not you want to commit to the money, and the time, and the hard work that will be required to do this before you come down and reduce my chances :O (I couldn't find a "tongue-in-cheek" smiley)

See you there!

PS. don't forget your cans of hairspray.
And apparently you might want to bring a machete for the black mambas in the toilets.

[aviator_88]

hahahahahahaah, I actually thought that I was the only one insane enough to take a leap of faith and go down there on my own...now I know that I'm not the only one and I'm glad.

I'm pretty new here (just found out about PPRuNe few weeks ago :ugh:) but I read every dam post about going to Maun and my eyes heart like hell right now...I actually wanted to come in November this year but my parents took all the funds they gave me as soon as they heard that my super plan B is to go in Africa for few months (it's pretty hard to explain to someone what does it feel like wanting to fly and not being able to do it)...now I'm waiter for the next 12 months saving money to go there...but I WILL GO THERE. The way I see it there are two possible situations:

1.)
-you spend 3 months in Maun or any other town,
-you get to know a lot of new people of which most of them are low hour CPL like you
-you all have a great time drinking, laughing and simply enjoying Africa
-you go for job hunting
-you get a job you want SOOO MUCH

2.)
-same as above but you don't get a job
-at least you can say that you tried
-you had a great experience
-you have a lot of new friends who may be in situation of helping you finding a job
-you spend some money which you don't like anyway because if you like money you wouldn't be flying airplanes...


I'm just glad that there are so many of you with this awesome genetic disorder that creates indescribable desire to fly. :ok::ok:

[Boeingdream]

Hey Guys and Girls

So after a long time of thinking about it I have finally booked my ticket to Maun. :uhoh:

I will be arriving on the first of Feb. I understand that time of the year is less than ideal but I could not go earlier due to finances and I really don't want to wait until the next hiring season. So now I have 6 weeks to buy some camping gear get all my documents in order and freak out about what feels like the craziest thing I have ever done. I am leaving a well paid job as a expat in Malaysia (not aviation related) to pursue my dream career.
I think I am a little better off than most guys going to Maun in regards to hours but not by much, I have 640TT and 500pic, MECIR (not current) and instructor rating. I plan on staying up to 3 months but I believe if I use all these 3 months up I cannot return to Maun for another 12 month period. Can anyone confirm this?

[Chewy99]

Hello everyone,
I've been keeping an eye on posts coming in for the last couple weeks but without going over all of the possible threads can anyone tell me if the permit situation in Maun has changed at all?
I apologize in advance if someone has posted an update about it.:ugh:
Thanks

[Gust12]

I spoke to a mate of mine yesterday who is up there looking for work. He says there were 2 pilots who got their permit applications denied last week.... I was planning to go up in Jan but I think it will be a waste of time to go if they haven't sorted out the permit issue. :sad:

[lilflyboy262]

Same story as last year. Its just another hoop you have to jump through.

[Chewy99]

Hey Gust12,
Thanks for that update. Im in the same boat as you. Have my heart set on jumping the pond asap but wish I could hear something positive about the permit situation before shelling out $1200 on a flight....might have to take the chance and go for it anyways. Thanks again and let me know if you hear of any changes as it would be much appreciated.
Matt

[Rico 25]

Hi lads,

I got a message from a young pilot who is looking to fly in the bush, however, he has a bit of a problem with his licence. He tells me that he has a JAR Multi-engine CPL but not the Single-engine version and I have sent a couple of emails off to people but none has bothered to reply with my questions. What concerns me is that even if this guy can convert his licence then he still lacks the single engine experience??

Regards

Rico 25

[Propellerpilot]

That question has already been answered - because people always open new threads, we have to answer everything multiple times. http://www.pprune.org/african-aviation/411973-namibia-bots-malawi-q-2010-11-a-6.html

If you have studied Air Law for your ATP you should know that you can only validate that what is in you original license and only as long as that license is current and for a maximum of one year - so no SEP IS a problem.

A lot of you guys going down to Africa will not get in - so it is only worth going if you can afford to speculate and treat the whole thing like a vacation scenario if the job search turns out negative. That is also why a lot of people drop the idea and never actually ever turn up anyway. The aviation community down there is tiny.

[lilflyboy262]

Its funny how people aren't listening to the guys who have been there and been through it all. Yes, they did reject pilots applications for visa's last year, and we are going through the same problem this year. It will get sorted as it did last year, its just the typical chest beating that goes on here. It will go right to the top (president) again if they have to. A few of the operators here are on first name basis with the president. As propellerpilot said, a lot of pilots wont get in here. But as I kept saying, 19 got hired in the last hiring season. And all of them were the ones that stuck it out for the 3 months. I think there will be less positions this time around though.

[darkroomsource]

I don't quite understand many of the things I'm reading here.

It seems, and mayby I'm reading more into some of these posts than is really there, that many people are planning to, or have gone to Maun because they think it's easier to get a job there than at home.

Well, I haven't been there, haven't tried it, so I don't know, but from what I've read over the years, it's not quite like that.

About thirty years ago I fell in love with the idea of flying in Africa, of seeing the big five from the air, of going in and out of small dirt airstrips, of meeting people from completely different cultures, of seeing the Kalahari, the Okavango Delta, the Dunes of Namibia. And for those thirty years I've dreamed about it, read about it and studied it. It hasn't been all-consuming, but I don't think I've gone more than two weeks in the past thirty years without thinking about flying in Africa.

So I'm off on the adventure of a lifetime, three months starting the end of January, exploring southern Africa, meeting people from various cultures, meeting pilots, hopefully catching a ride here and there. I have a commercial pilots license, so I'd love the opportunity to fly for hire down there, but I know that's not in any way an easy job. From what I've read it will be the hardest job I've ever done. Getting up at 4am and working 14 hours in a day (hopefully not every day), getting only one day off a week - if I'm lucky, kissing up to tourists, lugging their baggage, dealing with their barf bags, eating strange food, meeting new, and sometimes uninviting people, getting diarhea a few times, sleeping in a tent, showering with bugs the size of a computer mouse, finding black mambas and other poisonous snakes in the toilet, and maybe making some new friends and meeting pilots from around the world, dealing with 45C heat (114F), torrential downpours, and oh, did I mention diahrhea?

I am not under the illusion that I'll arrive in Africa and be offered a job flying an air-conditioned twin flying 3 hour legs, with coffee and doughnuts served by a sexy blonde. I know that some operators (most) have legs of between 10 and 45 minutes, and turnaround times of 10 minutes (that's the TOTAL time allowed on the ground to unload the passengers and baggage, and then load the new passengers and baggage) and there's no baggage handler 'ceppin' the pilot, and it's 45C while this is happening.

What I'm going for is the adventure of a lifetime, and if, by some freaky circumstance, I should be offered the opportunity to work for an operator there, you better believe I'd jump at the chance to work my backside off to have the chance to explore Africa by air.

So, if you're in for an adventure, I'll see you there.

[Farrell]

I've been mulling over getting a 210 rating and going to Maun for a season - with a twist.

Thanks to the kind folks in the tax-free sand-pit, I have enough funds to see the season as vacation time, and would be willing to fly for free.

Would that be in my favour?

(I do get the feeling that I am opening a can of worms here)

Farrell

[lilflyboy262]

Don't ever offer to fly for free. You shoot every other pilot in the foot whos worked hard to get there and is the cancer that is bringing the pay scale down for everyone else.

Besides. Why the hell would you work for free when you get paid? They are more than happy to pay the other pilots they have hired?

[cavortingcheetah]

Vacation time in the Okavango is an interesting thought, especially if the trade is to fly for free and take a companion with one. It could be fun.
It might raise standards in the swamps if a few experienced guys flew the routes for a season as a gratis holiday job. It's the sort of inverse of the younger guys demanding that all the fun jobs should be for pilots on the way up. It's terrifying really, all these posts that come in wondering whether, with five hours on a 206 or one on a 210, they'll get a job winging innocents over crocodile infested water? A few old buzzards with loads of time on 210s and 206s from the old days flying for the sheer joy of it is exactly what the operators need. Think also of the benefit to passenger relations. Maturity, grace and professional elegance rather than a desire to shag anything without stubble and a lust for the next hang over.
There's a 210 somewhere on the instructor rating and there's an old faded bright green Botswana ATPL so conversions might be realtively easy to arrange.

[Propellerpilot]

@Farrel - 210 is not really for Maun though - Bots is a 206 or Van country.

Operators do not want the guys to fly for free because there is no commitment that way - you have more power over people that you pay - there is a contract between the parties and because they pay you, they can tell you what to do and you can't just leave the next day because you feel like it or because you found another job back home. If you offer to fly for free they will just laugh at you and tell you to go home - I have seen that happen to a couple of guys, so don't even try that. Dependency is intended :mad:

I love the cheetah's post because if you have been there you can spot the wonderful irony and there is a point. Classic!

[Csanad007]

Sorry bru but I could beat the :mad: out of someone offering to fly for free...

[cavortingcheetah]

It's far from an offer to fly for free which is of course a totally reprehensible thing to do unless one's very life depended on doing so.
This though would be flying which allowed the young and up and coming observer of aviation excellence to benefit from the philanthropic experience and expertise of long accomplished and not yet dead aviators. It would in fact be an extension of the learning curve for those of limited hours and scary stories, not including yourself of course, who sashay across to Africa to experiment upon the bodies of unsuspecting tourists who would never, in a trillion zillion years, climb in to a commercial airliner with someone of such limited experience at the controls.

[Omni Range Zero]

Cavorting, pardon me, but methinks you sound desparate.

Besides, wouldn't said pax be worried about the not-so-youngster (or his side-kick) having a heart attack or an attack of the vapours, especially when it comes down to the parties at the dock! :}

[darkroomsource]

Besides, wouldn't said pax be worried about the not-so-youngster (or his side-kick) having a heart attack or an attack of the vapours, especially when it comes down to the parties at the dock! http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/badteeth.gif
If that's the case, then why would they feel comfortable travelling by KLM or Delta or United to get there in the first place?

[cavortingcheetah]

It's probably just as well that BMI don't operate into Maun.

[soakingpilot]

Farrell, send me a PM on why you would work for free and then maybe we can have that conversation in person.

[nyathi]

You come to Maun and offer to fly for free, people will just laugh at you! :ugh:

[morgan32]

Hi everyone,

Just a mail to sum up the actual situation in Maun.

We are now 25 pilots hanging around for jobs with between 200 and 900 hours

The estimated job opportunities are 5 or 6

Moreover, we have 9 local pilot, that might be given prioriti

Good news though Moremi air hired just one.

I don't say don't come, I just say that the situation is not as optimistic as I thought while reading this thread.

Good day.

Cheers

[matc]

Hey Morgan ! What's up french guy ! Who got hired at Moremi Air ?

[Farrell]

Told you this would open a can of worms. :E

Outside of the death threats etc.....

This is the reality of what this industry has become.
It's not exactly flying for free. It's flying for experience. Hours.
And if I have the money to afford to do something like that, then what is stopping me, and what gives you the right to judge me just because your financial situation does not allow you to do the same?

These comments about me single-handedly destroying the industry is no argument - industries evolve for better or for worse.

(For the record, it's not what I'm going to do....for now, but the option is being discussed at length with a lot of young pilots here in the ME with more money than sense who would be more than happy to do what I suggested in order to clock up a few hundred hours, buy a TR and join Air Arabia or what-not.)

Good luck with the upcoming season!

Farrell

[Propellerpilot]

Farrell - you have not understood what has already been said: operators will pay you to get by and that will not change - nobody wants to let the pilots fly for free - if so it would have already been practiced. If you or anybody else thinks they are clever by making the offer, I can promise you that you will not be respected and they will tell you to go fly free somewhere else and get lost, because it shows plain ignorance.

Somebody that flies for free does not have any obligations and practically can not be trusted or relied on being tasked - there is no contract being fulfilled.

Another thing is, that a commercial operator has to pay a commercial pilot in their service for legal and insurance purposes required by Part 135. A pilot flying for free, has no legal protection and no commercial rights - it is as if flying under Part 91 with a PPL. Ever thought about that ?

For those reasons - nobody will be flying completely for free.

[cavortingcheetah]

Pilot Prostitution.

The trend started with pilots entering into bonding arrangements for basic type ratings with airlines some twenty years ago. In the last twenty years, as aircraft technology standards have increased pilot standards have decreased? Has the quality of the trainee candidate become reduced from an intelligent self improver to a son of a sheikh? Does anyone really think that Airbus makes flying computers to provide fun for the pilots? It's to ensure that pilots with diminishing standards of ability and training can fly the Airbus without crashing too many of them. Perhaps Boeing are holding back the Dream Liner lest they too fall too deep into that trap. Do you know why Tornado Navigators are taught how to land the aircraft before being sent on detail to faraway places? Airlines are substituting type ratings for aptitude and experience as qualifications for entry while the aircraft coming off the production lines are designed and constructed according to customer requirements for automation to cope with these inabilities. The next stage will be even more highly sophisticated aircraft, operated by one computer programmer or pilot in old parlance, which can be controlled from a central command ground based facility in the event of such an unlikely occurrence as on board operator incapacitation. This is logical evolution and it's just following the path laid out so far. It won't affect the guys trying for the jobs today. It's only impact will be on the next generation of people who want to push buttons in aircraft. A lot of those may be the children of those who fly today. They will be the ones who are prejudiced by what is happening with 'pay to fly' today, just as those today are affected by the 'bond to fly' of yesterday.

[kotakota]

oi Farrell !
Now look what you have done ! Its all very well you winding me up at Turbos place but now you have gone and upset the Africa Korps !
Apologise now , and bring me some sausages sometime.

[cavortingcheetah]

This member of the Afriqa corps is not at all upset, pork sausages or beef, rosemary and thyme. Chomp and be damned! to paraphrase some well known publicationally persecuted Pom. It is a pleasure to read the posts of a pilot who writes as wittily as the Cooler King. He's quite right of course. It is a free market out there and those who have not had the opportunity or initiative to make their fortunes elsewhere before pouring it, revolta like, into aviation training are objects of sympathy rather than examples of ineptitude. I think he understands exactly what ticks in China Town. The only reason operators won't let you fly for free is because you could then tell them to wiggle their fundament when called out too many times for an early stand by. I have heard that British Midland, a little airline to which I have referred in an earlier post, charges for the type rating and includes 500 hours of right hand seat flying in the charge. You might be paid a token salary while flying like this but that's only to satisfy labour laws and to make the deal sweet as a Kosher kiss. Of course and strictly speaking, that's not flying for free. The real problem lies in the basic quality of the pilots who will fling such Moolah at airlines and who will themselves, in a year or two, be captains on fast jets, please nominate a slow jet for amusement's sake, and who will be then flying
with others of the ilk as they are now.These days I pick the airlines on which I'll fly and that decision really has very little to do with laying the cabin crew after dinner on arrival.
What, pray tell, is the difference in terms of flying for free and hitching a ride up to Maun and burning one's bum off in a squatter tent camp for three months until someone deigns to give you a job. You are using your savings to achieve the end result which is a flying job. It's the same thing ain't it now in reality? But then so, by extension, is borrowing a load of money to pay for your training and then spending the next five years repaying it to the bank after you get your first flying position. It's all flying for free, just like the most satisfying but not necessarily the most educational, sex.
Happy New Year to the Julians and Gregorians.

[Farrell]

Tah daaaah!

Cavortingcheetah has summed that up well.
The more naive among you should take heed.
It's only going to get worse.

kotakota......
bring my hard-earned sausages to your house?
what.....so that you can use them for another Christmas barbecue that you won't invite me to? :suspect: :(

[kingpost]

darkroomsource

That has to be the best post I have read on this forum (the one about your decision and the fact the it's no easier to get a job in Maun as it is at home) - you've got the goods to make it work, well done - it shows maturity.

Other posts lack basic commonsense, how the hell can someone with no commonsense operate an aircraft. It's all about your attitude.

Guys, if you want a job in the flying game forget what this one or that one says about visas or licenses, if you want a job those issues will be the least of your problems - see it as a challenge, that's what Africa's all about.

Aviation worldwide is turning, when the airlines expand they create a suction from the commuter airlines, which then in turn, need to recruit from GA. If you have a license now you're sitting in a very good position to enjoy a flying career - this period in aviation can be referred to as the glass being half FULL! As for 2008, the as a drought and someone broke the glass!!

Good luck to you all and never give up.

[matc]

Guys, this is a thread about Maun...let's get back on topic please. If you wanna talk about other issues, please open a new thread.

[cavortingcheetah]

Hello matc, aren't you in Maun now? How's the vacation going or have you managed to find work? It seems as though you're ideally placed to make some positive input to this thread? Would you fly for free if some chief pilot came around the camps in Maun offering a bed and one square meal in exchange for a day's work? Common sense might dictate that you'd take the charity offered but your attitude might prevent you from doing so. If you once turned such an opportunity down then you'd never get another chance which would mean that you hadn't used common sense in refusing the offer in the first place.
The Maun 2009/2010 season is now dead so perhaps it's time for some interested party to open a Maun 2010/2011 thread?

[mutt]

So what is the difference between someone flying for free in a C206 and someone who has paid to fly a B737/A320?

Mutt

[Council Van]

Are there any Dornier 228 or BN2T Islander operators in that part of the world?

[ragdragger]

Anybody who walks into someone else's place of employment and tells their boss that they would be happy to do their job for free, or for less wages, benefits etc, is an ass#$le. I don't think that anyone really believes that because some companies require pilots to pay for training or type ratings they are justified in trying to undercut everyone who is already working.

[Farrell]

The naivety of the past few posts is just stunning.

You still don't get the whole point of the post.

[ragdragger]

Maybe I am naive, but this all this talk about 'the way the industry is moving' and the 'free market' sounds like self indulgent waffling to me. I dont pretend to know or care what direction the industry is moving, I just know that if you walked into our office and told the ops manager that you would like to do my job for no pay I would think you were a dick. But I'm clearly not as intellectual as you are so it helps me to just think of things in the simplest terms. Apologies.

[Csanad007]

Well, as Farrel si the Cooler King he'll easily get a no-paying job with Fridge Air in Maun the day he arrives! Good luck :)

[cavortingcheetah]

Are there any Dornier 228 or BN2T Islander operators in that part of the world?

Here's another volunteer.

Dornier 228 on JAA licence, training captain, with 1,500 hours 228 command European operations, mostly winter.
BN2 Islander on ICAO licence with short field bush, high veldt and coastal experience throughout Africa.

Quite happy to make a special plan for valued clients training your crews on either of the above aircraft. Special discounts afforded to clients operating the DO 228. Reason for offering services at cut throat price? The sheer thrill of adventure and the love of training the delusional.

Have been to Maun often and have adopted plant in the desert for weekend abuse. Available from mid February in South Africa. Can speak German, Spanish, French and know how to swear in Afrikaans. Also an adept in the mysteries of the Imperfect Subjunctive.

[Farrell]

Hehehehheh!

[niner-alpha]

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread about Maun since 2008...now might be a good time to write a word or two. The thread is very informative, you covered pretty much everything, so I only have one question right now...is the situation getting any better when it comes to work permits in Botswana?
Hopefully I will get there in jan or feb 2012...I hope I will be able to save enough money for the trip by then (and there is one thing I am sure of - I won't be flying for free).
I will keep reading the blog, and maybe sometime in a year or two some of us will meet in Maun.
To those who are in Bots or Namibia right now, I wish you the best of luck :)

[kingpost]

matc

These posts are about Maun, someone like darkroomsource has the attitude to be successful in Maun.