ATR-72 Off runway Bombay

[LHRops]

Just seen reported a ATR-72 has gone off the end of the runway at Bombay, its seem that it landed long in wet weather.

Also the aircraft is lying on its wing no other info at this time

Hopefully everyone is OK

[White Knight]

ATR off the end??? My - that isn't just a long landing - that's landing at the very end:\ Both runways are long in BOM and even in the wet an ATR72 pulls up quickly once you back the props!!

[swish266]

RW14, 13 knots tailwind...
:}

[Tinwacker]

Kingfisher ATR-72 with 38 pax all safe has just been reported.

Aircraft landed in rain and low vis this evening, nose gear deep in mud and left wing down.
Too early to say whether the gear collapsed or because of the skid into the mud.

[22/04]

Having visited BOM (as pax) mny times in the last copule of years I wonder why the airport continues to operate on 27 and 14 in significant tail winds- watched a 737 take off on 14 with 10kts tailwind last time.

Rarely is 09 used and even more rarely 32 - I don't think I've ever seen a 32 departure.

[Adolf88]

RW14/32 closed for repair since October.
Used RW09 twice within the last two weeks.

[kotakota]

So , if 14 closed , how did ATR go off end then ?
I am going there later tonight , is the place closed ?
Talking about tailwinds , ATC there are very clever at giving us tailwinds of 9 knots , which is never the case when you touchdown . Good idea to use max flaps and autobrake at all times .

[sec 3]

Getting rid of all the expat pilots huh ? More of the same kind of things to come:}

[peterporker]

Careful.........Nobody knows for sure that it wasn't an expat flying......very likely was an expat as most ATR capts at KFA are still expats.......

[mikebravo787]

lets wait for the actual reports..due to major works r/w 14/32 is closed for three months..runway intersection is closed on tuesdays..so the r/w 27/09 is only very short if usable for tuesday from 12-1800 hrs local time..
on tuesdays.. mumbai..27 is a very short runway..no ILS.. due WIP. only 5700 feet long... wet runway conditions.. tailwinds...
lucky all pax are safe..

[Boeing7xx]

VT-KAC... still waiting to be taken out. The intermittent rains are not helping either... The lady appears to be a write off.

[leftseatview]

Not sure if tailwind was a factor in this case,but VABB has a serious OCD(Obsessive Compulsive Disorder)about 27,even with tailwinds approching(and sometimes exceeding)10kts.
For some unfathomable reason 09 never seems to enter the picture in their scheme of things.(many years ago someone landed at JUHU when 09 had no ILS)
They have a grand 10 year improvement plan.....but not a single rapid exit planned for 09.
Sometimes it just takes one moron,to prevent progress in the right direction.
Airlines operating out of VABB need to dig further and insist on better operational control at the ATC

[zudhir]

Mumbai: A Kingfisher Airlines ATR-72 aircraft skidded off the runway Tuesday evening while landing at the Mumbai airport, officials said. The airlines has ordered a probe into the incident.
http://stbjp.msn.com/i/28/139EBA6BF12B161D2B97ED5273F058.jpg



The aircraft carried 42 passengers and four crew members, and there are no casualties, a spokesman for the airlines said Tuesday evening.
Pending the inquiry into the incident which happened around 4.30 p.m., the airlines has de-rostered the pilots of the aircraft, the spokesman added.
The Bhavnagar-Mumbai flight IT-4124, landed at Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport where visibility was low due to rains and cloudy skies since early Tuesday morning.
On Tuesdays, only half the main runway is used and only smaller aircraft are allowed to operate between 12 noon and 6 p.m. to facilitate maintenance and repair of the runway, as announced last month by the airport authorities.
A spokesman for Kingfisher Airlines said the cause of the incident is not yet known. But he denied that a fire broke out in the aircraft due to the skidding.
On account of the incident, a few flights scheduled for departure Tuesday evening were delayed.
Source: Indo-Asian News Service

[zudhir]

Obviously the picture is incorrect.

[White Knight]

I know the ATR72 very well - and 5700' wet runway with a tailwind is still not an issue!! Maybe there's more to this such as tech problems too??

[PEI_3721]

When will we learn (prejudging the outcome of any investigation).
Many overrun accidents involve wet runways and tailwinds – several reports on the subject.

See http://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/874.ppt - “You can always say No”; and if VABB ATC say otherwise; then there is a safety lesson for everyone.

[jumpdrive]

Textspeak deleted.

[IndAir967]

I know the ATR72 very well - and 5700' wet runway with a tailwind is still not an issue!! Maybe there's more to this such as tech problems too??


Exactly..
what were the winds like ?
Low Altitude wind shear may be ... leading to correction and subsequent hydroplanning.. ??
I am currently unable to think of an tech failure that will actually make that bird skid of the runway..
1. I only hope the crew come out clean from it.. (who ever they may be)
2. I only hope the bird can go back up there again..
Bonne Landings:ok:

[Capt Apache]

This is a classic case pointing to the hazard of Rubber deposits.Mind you Air India broke a few lights minutes b4 ATR landed.Poor Pilots.Expats... Indians... Whatever

[concordino]

Here is a photo as appeared on planepictures.net.

Photo Kingfisher Airlines Aerospatiale ATR-72 VT-KAC (http://www.planepictures.net/netshow.php?id=891250)

Hope everyone pulls through this . VABB runways are far from being exemplary in good weather let alone in the prevailing conditions at the time.
:(

[airman13]

think it happened because of lack of procedures and techniques.many atr pilots,regardless of 42 or 72,do not apply the right landing procedure to reduce pls at flight idle when reaching 20 feet,so they are maintaining pls at 20-15% being at 20 feet and the result is a long flare,which becomes a very long flare if tail wind exists.they were successfully landings with tail wind up to 20 kts on 1800m wet rwys.....

[AviatorVette]

DGCA derosters six pilots of three airlines, one ATC - dnaindia.com (http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_dgca-derosters-six-pilots-of-three-airlines-one-atc_1310235)

[mikebravo787]

i dont work for kf but found this in the press release..

Press Statement

Mumbai, November 11, 2009
Following a spate of inaccurate and speculative reports that have appeared in the media and which continue to be flashed on various TV channels, we would like to clarify the facutal position and set the record straight with regard to the incident involving one of our ATR aircraft at Mumbai airport yesterday evening.

1. Considering the fact that the investigation is still on, we would normally not have issued such a detailed statement at this early stage but the wild speculation and rumour-mongering being reported on seriously by the media has constrained us to issue this clarification. It is therefore clarified that the iteration of this sequence of events and listing out of facts is in no way meant to be viewed as pointing blame in any direction or towards any agency or authority in any manner whatsoever and that we will respectfully abide by the final findings of the enquiry.
2. Some media reports have speculated that the pilot / cockpit crew ran away from the aircraft following the incident. We categorically deny this as false and mischievous. The cockpit crew and the cabin crew all remained present till all guests had safely exited from the aircraft and performed their duties as required of them in the given situation.
3. We learnt from media reports in sections of the press this morning that, barely minutes before our aircraft touched down, an aircraft of another airline had a landing that was not normal and took out two runway lights (according to media reports). The commander of our flight did not receive any notification advising or alerting our aircraft of any special conditions prevailing on the runway at that time and which may have potentially led to the eventful landing of another aircraft barely minutes before our aircraft touched down as otherwise the commander may have elected to request for a go around and/or diversion to an alternate airfield.
4. There have been some speculative and unconfirmed reports which suggest that ‘Kingfisher Airlines may have disregarded guidelines or flouted norms’ and so on. Kingfisher Airlines places guest safety and comfort above everything else. We categorically deny all such reports as untrue and aimed at maligning our reputation. For the record, we would like to highlight the following material points which will amply demonstrate that we are in full compliance with guidelines with regard to Tuesday closures at Mumbai Airport.
5. Beginning Friday November 6, 2009 on various occasions Kingfisher Airlines and other airline operators at Mumbai Airport brought up concerns regarding the Tuesday closures and on at least 5 different occasions since then, all airlines were in dialogue with MIAL to discuss and address various concerns.
6. On Monday November 9, 2009 following a verbal notification received by Kingfisher Airlines (at around 6.30pm) from the authorities that a “G’ class NOTAM had been issued, we proactively located the notification, studied the guidelines specified therein for operation of “C” class aircraft (Boeing and Airbus) and our Flight Operations department issued a circular to all pilots and concerned stakeholders specifying the precautions to be taken for Tuesday shortened runway operations at Mumbai Airport. With the issue of this circular within hours of being made aware of the “G’ class NOTAM, Kingfisher Airlines complied with the requirements specified with regard to operations of “C” class Airbus aircraft. Hence, there is no question of Kingfisher Airlines having violated any guidelines or flouted any norms.
7. On Tuesday November 10, 2009 , Kingfisher Airlines proactively delayed a number of flights (which had not yet departed from their city of origin) including those flights that were ready for departure from Mumbai Airport.
8. In light of the above, we would like to emphasize that:
a. Kingfisher Airlines took immediate and proactive steps to comply with the guidelines issued by the DGCA late in the evening of Monday November 9, 2009 with regard to flight operations of Airbus type of aircraft on the shortened runway on Tuesday.
b. The pilot of the aircraft involved in the unfortunate incident yesterday landed after receiving due clearance from the ATC at Mumbai Airport, given that the airport operator had chosen to keep the airport open.
9. Given that a full-fledged investigation is underway by our flight safety department and given that we are working and cooperating closely with the DGCA on their parallel investigation, we would urge editorial teams not to succumb to sensationalist information from phantom based sources and we will be happy to clarify any such malicious rumours and/or speculation that may surface.

Prakash Mirpuri
Vice President - Corporate Communications
The UB Group
Hoechst House, 5th Floor
Nariman Point
Mumbai 400 021
[email protected] (http://us.mc550.mail.yahoo.com/mc/[email protected])

[mikebravo787]

WTF.......obviously the scapegoat is the pilot..

atc= cares nothing...maintenance is by MIAL.. the airport developer..victim is the pilot...why is the atc not blamed for allowing/ clearing the aircraft to land.. if it was a regulators (DGCA's) restrictions of no landings of A320s.. of the other carriers Goair and IC....(not this atr..).. the pilots are derostered...WTF... why is the atc not accountable..

just a thought.. why not have this work on a sundays....10 to 16 in the day.. or maybe same time.. 12-18 in the afternoon..like on tuesdays..rain...or no rain.. less flights on sundays.. =less disruptions=less delays=less fuel wastage= less pollution=less inconvenience....

the r/w 27... just before the exit taxiway N-8 and also just before and after exit N-7 is very slippery ..this is the new touchdown zone..due to rubber deposits.. in the rains it can be deadly.. as proven yesterday..
also there is water logging near exit N-9 and exit N-10 and also N-9 n' N-10 are not quick exit taxiways..

...less than three years back there was a hull loss
...sahara airlines wrote off a B737, VT-SID ...in similar weather..the aircraft had to be written off..as it ran out of the runway at the same spot..
the other reasons were..also probably..due to tailwinds.. gusty and higher approach speeds and late touchdown..in similar gusty and slippery..n' ..wet weather..conditions..

guys operating into mumbai..
use all possible safe flying techniques..all stops even if the runway is fully available ..when the runway is wet.. whichever be the runway.. wet...plzzzzzzz
happy landings always..god bless....
p.s. i am presently not and did never fly for kingfisher or sahara airlines..

[mikebravo787]

hi friends,
sincerely wish that the derostered pilots are re-rostered..all the best guys..
happy landings and that too on the shortened 27 on tuesday...till it lasts and then on sundays if it happens..
dreams come true..

[mikebravo787]

YouTube - Kingfisher airlines falls off from runway while landing in Mumbai, no casualties reported (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GghNYv9Wn3U&feature=player_embedded)

[STN Ramp Rat]

seems that the investigation is complete and its all the pilots fault:ugh:

6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai (http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=6+pilots+de-rostered+after+plane-skid+in+Mumbai&artid=K3m6rKhXoEw=)

[sec 3]

Pretty colourful post mike bravo, don't need a coffee to wake me up now:sad:

[weido_salt]

Anyone know the nationality of the Captain?

Before you all string me up and ask what difference it makes, whether it was a local or expat. The facts are, if it was an expat he/she will be out on their ear. If it was a local, then they will try and find an expat that signed him/her off on a check, and fire the expat.

[Aeronotix]

The great witch hunt and blame game has started. After every accident/incident the same rigmarole takes place of how to apportion blame and met out punishment. All those involved in this exercise comprise those who have self interests in their positions and organizations, like the Civil Aviation Ministry, DGCA, Airlines, Unions etc.

The larger picture of aviation safety is always ignored. Time and again pilot bodies in India have requested for the setting up of an Independent Safety Authority, comprising retired aviation experts like pilots, engineers, atcs, etc who understand aviation operational systems or the lack of them, have no self interest, and can pro-actively prevent such disasters from re-occurring with non penal safety reporting of incidents by pilots and other personnel involved with flight operations. A Reprisal Free reporting system would work wonders towards an accident free environment.

The sooner these thick headed babus realize the macro picture the better it will be for flight safety and aviation in India.

Aeronotix.

[av8r76]

Rigmarole

That one word says it all.

[mikebravo787]

STN Ramp Rat (http://www.pprune.org/members/35016-stn-ramp-rat)-the rat on the ramp
someone thinks he knows-all says derostering is equal to blame = end of enquiry

seems that the investigation is complete and its all the pilots fault:ugh:
6 pilots de-rostered after plane-skid in Mumbai (http://www.expressbuzz.com/edition/story.aspx?Title=6+pilots+de-rostered+after+plane-skid+in+Mumbai&artid=K3m6rKhXoEw=)

who says so-that derostering of a pilot is the end of the blame game.

if a pilot is involved in any incident if he continues flying the enquiry cannot progress. the pilots involved will be needed to be available for the enquiry so derostering will help to finish the enquiry at the earliest. if found guilty then obviously there will be corrective training or other means of apportioning blame will happen. and in my post above i have mentioned...WTF- why pilots were derostered. 23 landings and 17 takeoffs had taken place during the wet runway-shortened R/W 27-A was in use on the said date.

why only the 6 pilots were derostered (2 of them GO-Air are back up and flying). 2 officers from the regulator, DGCA observers were sitting in the ATC observing the operations on that day. have they also been suspended? if not why not? why only blame the pilots.

[Super VC-10]

DGCA final report is out.

http://dgca.nic.in/accident/reports/incident/VT-%20KAC.pdf