View Full Version : Air nz to go with airbus

2nd Nov 2009, 23:11
Air nz have decided to go with the A320 to replace the 737's, ordering 14, and optioning another 11,

Air NZ unveils billion dollar Airbus buy up - Business - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10607025)

Flight Detent
3rd Nov 2009, 01:34
Does that count the one they lost off the beach in France recently...

The one doing the end-of-lease check flight!

Whatever happenned there...I don't recall hearing anything!

...and their buying More!

they must be REALLY cheap right now..


max rate
3rd Nov 2009, 01:58
Does that count the one they lost off the beach in France recently

Boy, that was sensitive....d1ckhead. And it's they're, not their

3rd Nov 2009, 02:18
"FD" as your profile indicates you are ex mil, you, for one, should know better..............:rolleyes:

3rd Nov 2009, 02:51
FD shame on you. Have some goddam respect man. :=

The report should be out in December I believe.

This decision has taken some by surprise, as many swore black and blue it was the 800's. Oh well, money talks...

Artificial Horizon
3rd Nov 2009, 03:35
No doubt ANZ have scored a big discount here to get the airbus'. It makes sense though, as it is just not sensible to have a short/medium haul fleet of more than one type. Only option here was to either go all airbus or all boeing. Interesting though as when Jetstar started domestic ops in NZ with the A320 the post was full of negative comments saying that the A320 just doesn't work as a shorthaul aircraft, especially on thin routes like in NZ and that ANZ would only ever run the boeing because of this fact!!

As for the comment about the crashed A320, what a rediculous thing to say. If you really want to know 'what happened' there then I seriously suggest a bit of research, all the information is out in the open. I think you will find the loss had not a lot to do with aircraft issues and more to do with airmanship choices made on the day. Bloody insenitive and not at all relevant:ugh:

Ndicho Moja
3rd Nov 2009, 03:50
Flight Detent,


Route Guide
3rd Nov 2009, 04:44
In 12 years of perusing this forum, I feel obliged to post only my third post. The motivation is the FD post above. I can't believe that any 'professionally minded pilot' could post a reply that shows such a complete lack of sensitivity.

The accident report will be likely published late this year. Even a light read through the available information would indicate, to any pilot whom had the slightest idea on how an accident occurs, that this tragic accident has all the hallmarks of a 'classic aircraft accident'.

James Reason strikes again!

RIP the ZK OJL crew.

4th Nov 2009, 01:38
Go easy on poor FD. He is ex military. He can't help it.

max rate
4th Nov 2009, 02:00
Well, that explains his spelling then.

The Green Goblin
4th Nov 2009, 03:12
Are they getting the containerised bus?

I remember some comments from ANZ when jitstar launched into the NZ market about the 'slow' turn arounds on the short haul routes with the containers.....

4th Nov 2009, 06:20
Are they getting the containerised bus

By the sounds of it yes.

NZ mentioned today might use the new a320 on International while the old ones will be transferred to domestic.

4th Nov 2009, 06:39
They could stick the old machines on domestic as they will be relatively low cycles, however it means they will need to remove the old interior and put in new domestic spec seats galleys etc. The cost of this may be worth it in the long run especially if the work coincides nicely with the old ones needing checks. The issue though may be the lack of brake cooling in the older machines, plus they were looking at HUDs in the new ones to help with RNP AR approaches as well as other little things.
Either way some of the new aircraft will end up on the domestic service as they getting 14 new and there are currently only 12 doing the internationals.

Going Boeing
4th Nov 2009, 09:59
WELLINGTON, Nov 3, 2009 (AFP) - Air New Zealand said Tuesday it will buy 14 new Airbus A320 aircraft to replace its domestic fleet of 15 Boeing 737-300 planes.

The airline said the 14 aircraft had a list price of more than one billion US dollars but added it had secured a discount to reflect market conditions.

"This is a very good time to buy aircraft," said Air New Zealand's short haul general manager Bruce Parton.

"The industry is at the bottom of a deep cycle, so demand for aircraft is limited, creating favourable conditions for buyers with strong balance sheets like Air New Zealand," Parton said.

As part of the agreement, Air New Zealand also has purchase rights for a further 11 aircraft.

Subject to details of the final contract, the first A320 aircraft is expected to be delivered in January 2011, with the fleet to be progressively introduced up to 2016.

Air New Zealand currently uses 12 A320 aircraft on short haul international routes and using the same aircraft on domestic routes would result in cost savings for the airline.

"Thanks to its fuel efficiency, the A320 will enable Air New Zealand to increase capacity on the domestic market while reducing carbon emissions," Parton said.

The current 737 fleet is configured with 133 seats, with the larger domestic A320 aircraft to likely have around 171 seats.

Air New Zealand said it had been evaluating options to replace the 737-300s for the past eight months.

More than 6,400 Airbus A320 aircraft have been sold to over 300 customers and operators worldwide, the airline said.

by Laurent Lozano (c) 2009 AFP

4th Nov 2009, 12:17
are airnz considering A319's for some of the skinnier domestic routes and A321 for crossing the dutch???

Yousef Breckenheimer
4th Nov 2009, 19:47
Yarn doing the rounds is that all new hires will be SOs. If that's the case then I think a few applicants will drop off the list of potential new hires.

distracted cockroach
4th Nov 2009, 22:21
It'll be an interesting time to see how they handle the crew thing....I agree all new hires will likely end up as S/Os, but there will be a lot of current S/Os who end up on A320 F/O bypass pay if the current 737 drivers just swap types.
Could be a real catfight when a whole bunch of A320 F/O jobs are advertised and current domie F/Os are outbid....does that mean they drop back to being S/Os with associated major lifestyle upheavals? Maybe the new entry level payscales will be based on A320 money? (yeah, right!)
Likewise with captains....what if current 737 captains are outbid by (for example) over 60s? Bye-bye command, hello long haul?
I hope it is handled with some sensitivity....but more likely to be an utter shambles with the usual backstabbing/grab what you can regardless of others that is so typical of pilots in general.
I'll be watching to see what happens when the first new positions are advertised!

4th Nov 2009, 23:32
I think no matter how they run the changeover a certain group will be disadvantaged, that's just a fact of life in this situation. The most likely method will be positions on pure seniority. They could pay a large number bypass to keep the current domestic pilots on the new type but that would most likely outweigh the cost of double training ie, training a 737 F/o to S/o and an S/o to A320 F/o as opposed to just a 737 F/o to A320 F/o.
When the 737 departs all new hires will have to be S/Os as that will be the lowest pay scale and the only entry level position.

5th Nov 2009, 00:46
In the ideal world the position of S/O could be phased out and just have 2 F/Os.:ok: Entry level becomes A320 F/O
Unfortunately that is NEVER going to happen.:ugh:
While the first frame is arriving relatively soon, the fleet is being introduced over the next 5 or 6 years so I cant see too many being displaced. There just might not be too much new hiring....:bored:

5th Nov 2009, 04:26
And the money on what factory the equipment is going to come from? China :yuk: or France:}? :hmm:

5th Nov 2009, 05:44
Perhaps the 'buy it now' price for the minibus had something to do with the corrosion now being experienced int he current 320 wings, do to having been left out in the open at the UK site, without (I believe) any protection?

I'll also add my vote to the FD's a d*ck-head count.

5th Nov 2009, 22:32
Air New Zealand's multimillion-dollar silver lining

Air New Zealand couldn't resist a little gloating when announcing the commitment to buy and lease 14 Airbus A320s to replace its Boeing aircraft on domestic routes.
Although it is not releasing details of the deal, the airline said it had got $1.4 billion worth of aircraft at bargain prices, buying at the bottom of the cycle for airlines and plane makers.
UBS analyst Jason Bloom is picking Air New Zealand got a discount of between 40 and 50 per cent on each plane it is buying. Off the peg, they sell for just on $100 million, including cabin fitout.
"You can make significant amounts of money if you negotiate at the right time, which they've done."
The three-year delay for the long-haul Boeing 787 Dreamliner also played into the airline's hands, Bloom says, allowing it to play Airbus off against its rival which is in a slightly weakened position.
The deal will see capex take off at Air New Zealand which has new Boeing 777-300s arriving next year. The airline expects capex to rise from $200 million this year to more than $600 million by 2012, and those figures exclude the A320s.

Bloom says they will add around another $50 million a year. Other carriers who committed to the A380 super jumbo have been spending heavily. "Air New Zealand has essentially had that [capex] holiday - they've been quite fortunate with the timing of the financial crisis."

7th Nov 2009, 07:25
Likewise with captains....what if current 737 captains are outbid by (for example) over 60s? Bye-bye command, hello long haul?

Air NZ has always had a pilot seniority system. The most senior applicant gets the vacancy. That is what is so great. It allows a pilot to have choice as to their life style. Pilots who get a higher rank by this system should'nt complain if they are out bid by a more senior pilot at their next assumed promotion so what is the problem?.
To those aspiring applicants - Air NZ is'nt compulsory, you don't have to join. If you don't like what's being offered then join another airline!!

9th Nov 2009, 03:05
So what does all this mean for potential recruitment next year? With 50ish on 'yes letters' and a whole heap of stagnation in the Links, will this plus the introduction of the 777-300's get the ball rolling a bit? Or will those of LWOP return and keep the brakes on for a bit longer?

9th Nov 2009, 05:37
Those on LWOP are minimal. Maybe a dozen or so. There is fat in most, if not all, ranks. With 14 A320's replacing 15 B733's over next 6 years and 5 B773's replacing about 6(effective operating) B744's over next 2.5 years and efficiencies with less fleet types I would think it will be a while before anyone is taken on. Retirements are an unknown but also minimal.

18th Jun 2013, 03:16
Air NZ unveils new A320 at Paris Airshow

10:15 AM Tuesday Jun 18, 2013


The new A320s feature 2.4 metre high curved wing tip devices known as sharklets.

Air New Zealand has rolled out the first of its brand new Airbus A320 aircraft - which feature impressive curved wing tips - at the Paris Air Show overnight.
The national carrier is the launch customer for the A320s and has purchased ten of them to join its fleet between now and 2015.
Designed to increase fuel efficiency and reduce CO2 emissions, the new planes are built with 2.4 metre-high wing tip devices known as 'sharklets'.
David Morgan, chief flight operations and safety officer, said the A320 was at the core of the airline's domestic fleet.
The airline was committed to moving all domestic flying to the aircraft type to take advantage of the fuel efficiency gains on offer, he said.
"In a seat to seat comparison, the sharklet-equipped A320 will burn 18 per cent less fuel per passenger compared with our Boeing 737-300 jets, which are scheduled to be phased out of our fleet over the next couple of years," Morgan said.

The sharklet-equipped aircraft would save 250 tonnes of carbon per year compared with the usual A320, Morgan said.
Morgan said Air New Zealand was proud to have its aircraft selected to be part of the Airbus display at the Paris Air Show.
The prestigious event, now in its 50th year, brings together industry players from across the globe to showcase the latest technological developments in the field.
To see a video of the sharklet

18th Jun 2013, 05:13
Would have thought they could have used the new design.

Air NZ unveils 'distinctive' new look - Business - NZ Herald News (http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=10889820)

Jack Ranga
18th Jun 2013, 08:15
ANZ launch customer? Thought I just saw a jetstar A320 down near John Hollands with the shark things.

18th Jun 2013, 09:06
I believe AirAsia was the launch for sharklets few months ago. There are at least another dozen airlines in addition.

Looks like more of a desperate PR stunt.

Route Guide
18th Jun 2013, 09:25
I believe Air New Zealand was the first airline to order A320s with Sharklets, so by virtue of this became the launch customer.

Hence the recognition as such by Airbus and the reason the a/c was at Le Bourget. Of course other airlines subsequently ordered a/c with the Sharklets and converted their positions on the production line to Sharklet a/c.

I hope this clears up the misconception and explains why there are already Sharklet equipped a/c out on line ahead of the 'launch customer' receiving their first a/c.

18th Jun 2013, 09:39
Oh yeah that makes sense.....PR machine in action there. The first to pay for it and get one is the launch customer in my mind.

18th Jun 2013, 10:19

So,AirNZ is the launch customer and AirAsia is the first operator.Got it.

18th Jun 2013, 22:36
Jeeze....winglets have only been on 73NG for the last 12 years.
They're nothing new.

Can't believe Airbus have only just worked that out! :}

18th Jun 2013, 23:21
Has Boeing trademarked the word winglets? Just wondering why Airbus calls them sharklets...surely a bit insensitive considering where AF447 ended up...

18th Jun 2013, 23:30
Shame Boeing can't update the rest of the air-o-plane, "Catch me Wilbur Catch me" -

19th Jun 2013, 08:47
Airbus tried and failed to make their own blended winglets for the A320 last decade.

Eventually a few years ago they went to Seattle with their tail between their legs and Aviation Partners (the ones who make the 737NG blended winglets) sorted them out.

I guess that's why they look very similar to the 737NG blended winglets.

As for the "sharklets" name... I guess the PR department is desperate to make them sound like new technology... after all, no other airliner has "sharklets"!

19th Jun 2013, 14:37
Not exactly

Airbus sues Boeing partner over winglet patent | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/02/airbus-wingtip-idUSN1E7B10U220111202)

20th Jun 2013, 07:55
Airbus tried and failed to make their own blended winglets for the A320 last decade.

Eventually a few years ago they went to Seattle with their tail between their legs and Aviation Partners (the ones who make the 737NG blended winglets) sorted them out.

I guess that's why they look very similar to the 737NG blended winglets.

As for the "sharklets" name... I guess the PR department is desperate to make them sound like new technology... after all, no other airliner has "sharklets"!

Ha Ha.....that's really funny. Do you live with Alice in Wonderland or with the Tinman in Oz?

Google it for the real story......