Britten-Norman Islander Ditching off Bonaire

[pjd_012]

Small plane ditches off Bonaire, pilot missing

BONAIRE--A Britten-Norman Islander plane of Divi Divi Air coming from Curaçao made an emergency landing at sea off Bonaire on Thursday. All nine passengers were rescued, but the Canadian pilot Robert Mansel (32), who used to work for Winair in St. Maarten, is missing and presumed dead.

The aircraft registered as PJ-SUN apparently had lost one of its two propeller engines after taking off from Curaçao, but the pilot decided to fly on to Bonaire. However, he was forced to ditch the plane in the sea just short of the runway of the intended destination, around 10:30am.

The plane continued to float on the water for a while, enabling all nine passengers to escape. They were rescued by the Plaza Beach Resort dive boat and taken to medical emergency personnel who had quickly assembled on shore.

The pilot is believed to have hit his head against the cockpit window during the “landing” and to have lost consciousness. Passengers tried to get him out before the plane sank, but the safety belt mechanism reportedly had stuck.

All the passengers were said to be in good condition.




Copyright ©2008 The Daily Herald St. Maarten

[MyNameIsIs]

Just to correct that article, Rob is actually English and not Canadian.

More articles:
Accident: Divi Divi BN2P near Bonaire on Oct 22nd 2009, engine failure, ditched in the Caribbean (http://avherald.com/h?article=4219e895)
Light commercial aircraft crashes off Bonaire, pilot sinks with aircraft (http://www.sxmislandtime.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8454:light-commercial-aircraft-crashes-off-bonaire-pilot-still-missing&catid=31:general&Itemid=76)


I worked with Rob when he was with Solomon Airlines. We were also housemates.
A wonderful guy and a true friend.

Unfortunately we will never see each other again.
I will miss you mate, miss you lots. May you rest in peace.


In happier times. Cheers mate.
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz199/MyNameIsIsPROON/ROB-1.jpg
RIP
:sad:

[Deeday]

BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8323711.stm) reporting on the story:

'Hero' pilot killed in Caribbean

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46602000/jpg/_46602629_pilot.jpg


A British pilot killed as he saved his nine passengers by ditching his plane into the Caribbean sea has been hailed as a hero.

Robert Mansell, 32, originally from Knowle, West Midlands, had used his skills as a "good pilot" to save lives, said his employers Divi Divi Air.
He was flying between the south Caribbean islands of Curacao and Bonaire on Wednesday when he crashed.
All nine passengers escaped the sinking plane, but the pilot's body is missing.
Captain Mansell was five minutes short of the destination when he was forced to ditch the twin-engine Britten-Norman Islander.
The passengers escaped the sinking aircraft, but he was still strapped into his seat as it disappeared into waters reported to be 150 metres deep.
Colleagues at Divi Divi Air are said to be devastated by his death, describing him as a highly respected and qualified flyer.
Simon Janzen, from the company, said: "He's a hero. All the passengers survived and he is the only one missing. If he wasn't a good pilot, he couldn't have ditched it so everyone could be saved.
"Other pilots wouldn't have known what to do but he landed the aircraft so that everyone could get out safely."
The crash happened after the right engine of the plane failed, and Capt Mansell made a mayday call before ditching, he added.
Tributes on a local news website, the St Maarten Island Time, have described Mr Mansell as a "true hero" for saving the passengers.
Capt Mansell worked for Winair before moving to work for Avion di Divi Divi.
Divi Divi Air, established in 2001 on the island of Curacao, operates up to nine flights a day between Caribbean islands.
Bonaire, which along with Curacao is part of the Netherlands Antilles, lies about 50 miles off the coast of Venezuela.

[Low Flier]

If he wasn't a good pilot, he couldn't have ditched it so everyone could be saved.
"Other pilots wouldn't have known what to do but he landed the aircraft so that everyone could get out safely."
The crash happened after the right engine of the plane failed, and Capt Mansell made a mayday call before ditching, he added.

Hmmm.

Only a good pilot would know what to do when an engine fails in a twin?

[OD100]

"...The aircraft registered as PJ-SUN apparently had lost one of its two propeller engines after taking off from Curaçao, but the pilot decided to fly on to Bonaire...."

What???????

Something more to the story.....

[Avman]

OD100, he was actually closer to Bonaire, which is why he made the RIGHT decision.

[captjns]

May fair weather always prevail, the gentle winds be on his tail, and the sun never set on Captain Mansell's eternal flight into the heavens.

RIP

[vanHorck]

Since when does this twin not fly on one engine? This story is incomplete.... Either the second engine was not OK or the W&B was off limits.
Just a humble PPL MEP

[Michael Birbeck]

Since when does this twin not fly on one engine?

There are multiple reasons why this aircraft might have ultimately gone down, prop not feathering, engine damage or movement that caused additional damage or drag... etc.

Pointless speculating. This chap got the aircraft down and the passengers were saved. Best wait for the report.

[chips101]

I'm not a pilot so please excuse any ignorant thoughts/remarks here. Firstly I understand ditching an aircraft is very difficult, All passengers survived so a job well done. My Question to pilots (especially any 'Islander' experienced pilots).

1/ I understand most twins will fly on 1 engine so why the need to ditch?
Could it be weight/range related?

2/ Is the Islander particularly difficult to ditch? I,m thinking about the fixed
undercarriage!

I know we don't have all the facts of this accident but your thoughts are always interesting.

[chips101]

Michael Birbeck question 1 well and truly answered. Thank you.

[Capot]

As a comment, with probably no relevance to the loss described in this threead, in the very early 1970s a military evaluation of the BN2A in a very hot part of the world concluded that "the aircraft must be regarded as a single engine-aircraft as there are few circumstances in which with a normal load it can sustain level flight on one engine. The best that can be hoped for is a controlled descent and landing." (That's only slightly paraphrased for brevity.)

It was none-the-less brought into service in that hot place both as a civil aircraft operating under the CAA rules of the time for transport operations, and in the military (who operated exactly as above). It was widely accepted among the civil pilots that if an engine quit, the other would overheat at within 5 minutes at or near Max Cruise to maintain level flight thus forcing a descent and, as I recall, this was demonstrated several times, although not in a real emergency.

It was a long time ago, and I stand to be corrected by people who were there also, but that's how I remember it. I still have the military evaluation, but that's in the attic.

[JOSHUA]

Sounds like he did an excellent job when presented with a difficult situation. As most pilots will know, twin props do not exactly climb well when reduced to a single engine, who knows what other factors may have been involved impacting on the aircrafts ability to climb or even maintain altitude, little point in speculating....RIP

[captjns]

There is an inherent risk that one takes when flying a fully loaded Cessna 404 or 402, Piper Chieftan, Islander and alike. If you lose a motor, on one of these underpowered planes then the remaining engine will take you to the scene of the accident.

[Finals19]

I have indeed lost an engine on a PA31 Navajo while in the cruise at FL120. We were empty and happily cruised at VYSE or above but my inclination is that had we been heavy we would have been in a controlled descent at best. That said, the PA31 is turbo charged and is a slightly different beast from the BN2.

[trex450]

I can recall, on a day cooler than in the case of this accident, being only able to maintain a very low altitude at a weight of approximately 100kgs below max during an assymetric training flight. I love the Islander but it is a heavy aircraft to say the least on one engine. While I have no idea about the composition of the pax if they were all adult (the press usually highlight when children are involved) then this aircraft was always going to be heavy with 9 pax and the pilot. Given that the critical engine is the left on the Islander then it is quite probable that something else was a factor as already suggested (prop not feathering or left engine not providing full power). We will wait for the report on that. None the less the guy clearly did a good job getting it down as I never fancied having to ditch it. It went through my mind more than once that as the pilot you are the worst placed occupant in a ditching due to the pitch moment that it would have on contacting the surface and the high instrument panel. RIP

[Jetgate]

Yes a sad day indeed.... Had a lot of fun flying the Islander and Trislander not that long ago. Must say that was the most fun I've ever had and despite flying a number of JAR25 types since don't think it will ever match those beautiful heady days of flying the I & Tri for a tightly knit small outfit off a rock. So I can certainly empathize with the folks at Divi Divi....

A number of us did wonder how useful she would be on one engine with 9 pax and a hold full of bags.... and that's in the mid latitudes. I have spoken to a colleague who did survive a ditching in an Islander in the tropics and it wasn't a pretty story!:ooh:

Actually it wasn't that long ago another Islander ditched around that part of the world.... Scant information available at the very bottom of the Incident Watch page on flightglobal.com

Aviation News and Aviation Jobs from Flightglobal (http://www.flightglobal.com/staticpages/incidentwatch.html)

[G-CPTN]

Is there something unusual about the seatbelt release on this aircraft?
A passenger reported that they were unable to undo the belt.

[MyNameIsIs]

G-CPTN,

The seatbelt is generally like most seatbelts- ie lift the buckle and unclick it goes.
There may be a fixed (to the lap belt part) or removeable shoulder harness which the passengers don't have and they may have struggled with that.
Or they could have for some reason not been able to access the buckle.
But I've never been in that particular aircraft (PJ-SUN) so cannot comment what it had.


There is really no point speculating, we just have to wait for the report.



The Islander and a lot of GA twin pistons, at heavy weights (even below MTOW), will often have trouble maintaining height on one, especially when it is hot outside. Add to that old airframes and engines/props etc and it won't be performing at it's peak.

Ditching the Islander.... not many people would be keen on that. Plenty of other planes out there that would fair a lot better.




"Sittin on the dock of the bay, wastin time.............."

[SDFlyer]

Sorry you lost a true friend.

For all we know, the other engine might not have been producing full power after the failure. We may never know.

He died a long way from the West Midlands, doing what he loved to do.

RIP Robert.

[FlyTCI]

As one who has flown quite a few hours in the Islander (long nose) I can tell you there is no way you will be able to maintain altitude on one engine loaded with pax in the back. When doing flight checks on single engine with just the pilot and examiner we could hardly get it to climb on one engine. Granted this particular Islander had worse performance than others, mostly due to the long nose.

I also had the misfortune of losing an engine (in the Bahamas) on a C401 with only two passengers. The engine seized and the prop would not feather. We were losing 300'/min all the way down from 9000' to MSL. As previously said, believing that second engine will save you in a GA aircraft is only fooling yourself.

Sad story, RIP Caribbean flyer.

[Capot]

While on the subject, adding another engine didn't make much difference. A Trislander suffered an engine failure on take-off at Jersey. What happened was this (AAIB report, my italics, the aircraft was 23 KG over MTOW)..

At this time (about 200', after completing post take-off checks) the pilot observed that the left engine had failed and so he feathered the propeller on that engine and increased to maximum power on the remaining two engines. The pitch of the aircraft was adjusted to maintain a target speed of 80 kt, the recommended speed after the shutdown of an engine. The pilot was unable to climb and he elected to make a landing on a beach which was ahead of the nose of the aircraft.In the discussion of the incident....(my italics)

If the pilot does not react quickly to an engine failure of this type a yaw will develop which will degrade the climb performance. A factor to be considered is that during training a pilot will be anticipating a failure and will normally react more quickly than would be the case during a line flight where there would be a large element of surprise. The southerly wind gave rise to some turbulence which can also degrade performance.A combination of these factors left the pilot in a situation where he had no confidence in the capability of the aircraft to achieve a climb and so he elected for what he felt to be the safest option, which was a precautionary landing on the beach.Good for him, and he deserved a medal. The investigators concluded the extra 23Kg had no significant effect on performance.

Can anyone explain why the CAA allows(ed) these B-N products to be certificated for Public Transport operations?

[frigatebird]

I too have worked with Rob. A keen and capable lad, and a sad loss.

Having had to carry out C.of A. annual performance tests where the aircraft starts a 5 min timed climb on one engine from 3000 ft. under controlled conditions, recording altitude gained and other parameters, I can assure all that there is not much excess performance in tropical conditions. On two engines they are a STOL performer out of short strips, but you had better have a contingency plan if you are to survive if one stops at a critical time or place when you have a full load in warmish temperatures. Of the aircraft I have flown, I have had full and partial engine failures for real in Islanders more than the other types, but luckily they either happened when I was in cruise, or at lighter weights.
They complement Twin Otters in remote operations and short overwater sectors, and are irreplaceable in some operations for providing frequency to smaller ports. That explains why some have been used for 35 years and more and are very high time airframes.

As far as trying to ditch an Islander without casualties, the only one of which I have first hand knowledge, resulted in all 11 (that included infants) on board perishing. Nothing was ever found.
So if Rob had to ditch, he did well to have all the passenger survive.

Vale Rob, I thought you might have gone far, you tried, but now your journey is different.

[Deeday]

It sounds rather ironical, what B-N say on their website (http://www.britten-norman.com/products/bn2b/), promoting the Islander:


Strength and safety
[...]
Twin-engine power for enhanced safety in all types of operation
Exceptional low-speed and single-engine handling
[...]

[MyNameIsIs]

frigatebird, i was trying to get in contact with you yesterday but your PM/email is disabled.
I got the sad news about Rob yesterday from one of the fellas still in HIR.

don't suppose you have an email address you can PM me some time for any future chat??


it's hard to believe Rob has gone...

He was king of the Karaoke on a Friday night at the KingSol.

Raise a glass and remember the good times we shared.

[frigatebird]

mynameis..

I will

[b4thenumbas]

fellas...appears to me u guys are the only ones on this thread that actually knew him...i knew his aswell.we trained toghether in aus and i spoke to him on msn just after he got his atp...i still cant belive hes gone..i know for sure that what ever he chose to do was the for the best, and the facts prove him.

just wanted to share my sorrow with u fellas.ciao roberto,will miss u and will never forget u.

[Timothy]

I have never flown an Islander but I have had engine failures in light twins (C404 and Aztec) at MTOW and simply cannot agree that the second engine "takes you to the accident" in general terms (as I say, it may be true of the Islander but it is definitively not true of most MEPs.)




Of course there are circumstances of double emergency (such as failure to feather, a problem on the other engine and so on) but it is quite wrong to paint a single engine failure in an MEP as a disaster waiting to happen.

Speaking as someone with many decades, and quite a few thousand hours, on MEPs I was as surprised as anyone else about this ditching.

[silverknapper]

Timothy

A good result for you and I am very very pleased it worked out for you. However I would say that it was a brave decision you made flying a heavy mep on one engine past several airports, over a very congested city, to get to your maintenance base. I would have ventured that 'land at the nearest suitable airfield' was never a more appropriate phrase.

But as I say well done

SK

[golfyankeesierra]

Does the islander have shoulder harness?

There is at least one (fatal) accident report that I have read where it said that if the deceased pilot had worn the shoulder harness he probably would have survived.
Guy's remember: if you are going down, strap in, takes only half a second, but could save your live!

[trex450]

yes it does

[Flintstone]

Uncannily silverknapper has mentioned the very point I logged in to comment on, whether or not the second engine was doing any good.

In 1996 an Islander, VH-HIA, made a forced landing on a beach on the Gold Coast in Queensland. The initial report is here, afraid I can't find the final one but I'm sure someone will come up with it.

ASN Aircraft accident Britten-Norman BN-2A-21*Islander VH-HIA Currumbin, QLD (http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19960407-1)

While making no assumptions as to what happened in the Bonaire case I do know a little about the Australian one. One of the engines on VH-HIA had a history of surging and I know this because at that time I worked for the company who maintained it and were trying to track down the cause. Just about every component was changed in trying to cure it but the fault would re-occur. On the night of the accident it happened again, the pilot told me that it was causing such a violent yaw he opted to shut it down only to find that despite his best efforts (and having flown with him I can vouch for his skills) the aircraft would not maintain altitude.

He set about re-starting the offending engine but found himself running out of room so opted to make a forced landing on the beach. There was little light and he could only aim for the luminescence created by the surf breaking (he was over a built-up area with no hope of going elsewhere). All went well until, just a few feet above the sand, a wingtip struck the only rock for miles causing both wings to snap off. The fuselage, complete with passengers, dropped the last few feet into the water and rolled onto it's side. Although initially stunned he came to under water and released himself before, depsite having several broken ribs, dragging several passengers clear. Fortunately this occurred right outside a surf club where the police were having a party and so there was plenty of help on hand. All the passengers survived.

During the subsequent enquiry it was noted that company SOP's for an in-flight restart was 'everything forward', throttle, pitch and mixture and while this worked well on a carburetted engine this company had a mixed fleet which included some aircraft with fuel injected engines which flooded under those settings.

Apologies for the long story and, perhaps, thread drift but I think this case is worth considering.

[frigatebird]

flintstone
Know of at least one 300 hp fuel injected Islander that had to be put into a paddock because of air in the fuel lines after the pilots late decision to change tanks. Also know that while the 260 hp carburettor versions are probably more widely used, they are very prone to carburettor icing in high humidity tropical environments. There was undoubtedly more to consider than is obvious from reading these posts.

[glad rag]

This thread displays what is so good and so bad about pprune.

RIP. Never knew you, but you did your best right at the end.

Salute!

[Timothy]

Silverknapper,

That conversation was done to death at the time, but, in the context of this thread, the point is that the aircraft was behaving perfectly at MTOW to such an extent that I didn't need to panic or make hasty choices (like landing on the nearest runway) but had the leisure to work out the best diversion, taking everything into account.

I believe that it is the duty of the Captain not to follow mantras (like "land at the nearest airfield") but to make a careful judgement on all available information.

[MyNameIsIs]

golfyankeesierra, the shoulder harness in a BN2 only comes over one shoulder.

There is potential for the torso to slip out from only one shoulder harness (no matter what aircraft, some worse than others) depending on a few things such as the direction the decelerating force comes from (more sideways or head on) and whether or not it is correctly fitted.
A harness over both shoulders is much better.

It depends on the belt, but some of the BN2s ive been in have the shoulder belt stiched into (and thus permanently attached to) the lap belt. Other belt systems have a shoulder belt with a clip on the end that can attach to the buckle of the lap belt thus making it removeable for cruising comfort.
I prefer the permantly attached type. With properly working inertia reels.


One thing I have found strange with the Islander is that both the 260hp & 300hp versions are certified to the same MTOW.
I just hope the 260 isnt considered 'underpowered' and that the 300 was a further development and just kept to the same weights.

[Flintstone]

Thanks Ventus. I looked there too without success but assumed I just wasn't doing it properly. Pretty sure the final report was as I described though.

[Rico 25]

When I had a look at the You Tube video-Tribute to PJ-SUN ( which was the aircraft that Robert Manselle was flying at the time) you can clearly see that this Islander had 4 blades fitted to each propeller. Does anyone know why this was done as most Islanders that I've seen have two bladed props??

[LateFinals]

I've been flying on Aurigy trilanders for 15 years to Alderney from Southamptom and have often wondered how they would perform with an engine failure. From memory a couple of years ago an engine failed cruising out above the needles in the cruise and the aircraft returned to Southampton - a complete non-event. But a hot day, failure on take off makes me wonder, although presumably there is no way the plane would have a Public Transport CofA if there was any doubt about single engine performance.

Saturdays Daily Mail - International Edition ( that well known organ of accurate aviation reporting) quotes the father of the pilot as saying that his son apparently regularly complained to him that he had to fly with the plane overloaded with passengers or baggage. Could that really happen, would a pilot allow commercial pressure from "management" to affect W & B safety envelopes & decision making ?

LF

[captjns]

Hope this article provides comfort to those who knew Captain Mansell.

'Hero' Pilot Robert Mansell Dies After Saving Passengers (http://news.aol.com/article/hero-pilot-robert-mansell-dies-after/735596?icid=main|hp-laptop|dl2|link2|http%3A%2F%2Fnews.aol.com%2Farticle%2Fhero-pilot-robert-mansell-dies-after%2F735596)

[Finn47]

Ventus 45, if you do a search for all crashes in the ATSB online database for that year (1996), you will find the same as I did: only accidents involving fatalities are available online (25 in total) with one exception, an accident to a larger aircraft (a Dash-8). That must be why you can´t find what you were looking for.

[Deeday]

This is the quoted YouTube video, by boneriano2007:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/p3bbfkQgK40&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/p3bbfkQgK40&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[MyNameIsIs]

I don't know anything about the 4-blade mods to Islanders. Certainly interesting.

The new ones come out with 3 blades it seems.


LateFinals, the unfortunate reality is that in GA the commercial pressure is such that "if you don't do it, you wont have a job with us any more".

True that it is down to the PIC to not go, however it is also up to the operator to not put such pressure on their crews.
If the operator has ground staff working for them (ie not the pilot doing the check-ins), then the potential for a few kilos shaved off each passenger and even 'forgotten' bag weights every now and then is significant. I've experienced it many times. Still do. Always will.

As a side note, you could be legal yet still be overweight when it comes to using standard passenger weights. I'm glad we don't use them where i am because our average adult male passenger is probably a good 20kg heavier than what the australian authority quotes as standard. We even get a large proportion of adolescents that top the 'normal' adult male average!

[ravan]

Frigatebird, mynameis and BenRimini, the word of Rob's accident got through to FTA in Brisbane(where Rob did some training) yesterday and those of us who had the pleasure of working and socialising with him are gutted.

The world has lost a good one. Rest well Rob.

[RatherBeFlying]

I was paying for fuel at Wings Field, PA many, many years ago when they were operating a Trilander shuttle to PHL.

I overheard the check-in staff asking the pax for personal weight:ok:

[learjet50]

Re Robert Mansell (RIP)

He appears to be a Hero and did an excellent job considering the circumstances.

My old company use to operate three BN2A Aircraft 2 in the UK and 1 in the Sudan (operating Sole use contract)

All 3 were 260 HP engined and although I am not a Pilot I do know the Crews use to call them the Streamlined Brick.

Our 3 A/C GAXXH s/n 144 GBNEA s/n 206 and GAZGU s/n 677 I seem to remember were modified to MTOW 2994 Kilos by a mod to the leading Edge between the Engine and the fuselage they also had the extended Baggage Mod in the back which meant you could carry even more bags, I cannot remember how this effected the C of G on 1 Engine

I also think with a full Pax load and a resonable amount of Baggage we could carry approx 60 IG of fuel which would take your approx 1 H 20 mins so I Cannot Imagine PJ SUN would have had a Weight Problem as it did not have De Icing which ours did again I dont know
Could I please verify the following points re the Threads

They refer to the particular A/C as a Long Nosed Islander.

I dont think it was. I admit it had a pointed nose which was the same size as the original but just pointed to streamline it I Assume.I know the Defender has a long nose (A Tri landers I assume)

I Think the 4 Bladed Prop was a mod brought out by the USA anthough I dont think it was certified by the UK (Not sure)

I also noticed I Think on the U Tube Tribute to Rob that who ever was flying PJ SUN was not wearing his Diaganol Seat Belt which was a point asked in one of the Threads.

On the BN" s we operated the front passenger has to Exit the Aircarft via the Pilots door after he disembarked Again Maybe I am wrong

Anyhow we can debate all night it wont Bring a Hero Back to us

Rob a True Hero R I P he died a Hero and I hope there will be something to Remember him in the future and not let hime be forgotten.


I only hope something good will come out in the Accident report which will prevent another young Hero being taken from us so Young,

[ecureilx]

Firstly, condolences to the pilot in this. Maybe he could not squeeze himself out of the quite narrow door ?


I was paying for fuel at Wings Field, PA many, many years ago when they were operating a Trilander shuttle to PHL. I overheard the check-in staff asking the pax for personal weight
Sorry for barging in, when I flew on a couple of BN2 in Philippines, they didn't just ask the passenger's weight, they made sure the passenger stood on the weighing scale, loudly screaming "BODY WEIGHT PLEASE" (and that did make some embarrassing moments for some of the female natives who insisted that they were 50 plus kg, and turned out to be 60 plus kg when weighed) .. and when the 8th and last passenger walked in, the check in crew gave the option to the last passenger - "either you fly or the bags fly, but not both" even though the bags were just 15 KG.

Later, when I asked the pilot, he said that his company has a few policies - 1) twin pilot operation, 2) never exceed the max weight, even by a KG, and keep the weight much below the max weight.

The reason he said was as highlighted by the others - at full load, the BN tends to loose altitude, and since they do about 30 to 40 minutes sectors over water, heading to far away islands, being below weight helps to stretch the performance, in case of engine failure, instead of letting the working engine just take the plane to the 'scene of the crash'. :ok: :ok:

And the other operators of BN2 in that area all had the same mentality, and refusing to load up 'urgent' cargo, destined for the islands, and even refusing the offer of money when on another instance a passenger wanted to fly urgently and pilot refused due to the weight of previously loaded cargo meant they had to keep one seat empty :ok:

And once, I saw a gaggle of 4 BN2s in the rural airport I was flying out of.

Fly safe - always.

[MyNameIsIs]

Went thru an Islander manual earlier.

En-route S/E performance, 3500ft ISA+15 at MTOW (2994kg) you are getting roughly a -1.5% gradient...........

It was a very rough look and might not be 100% accurate, but it gives you an indication of just how this piston may perform.

[Double Zero]

As I'm sure you are aware, fast jet crew usually carry at least one knife, on anr arm or shin so as to be hopefully withein reach even if the aircrew has suffered injury to an arm or leg.

While people recoil in horror at the idea of knives on passenger aircraft nowadays, a simple answer is available, from Halfords ( UK car parts stores ) of all places !

'Escape hammers' are readily available, and though lightweight, have ointed ends so as to break windscreens - not so useful on aircraft - and a masked safety knife blade designed specifically to cut trapped harnesses.

I cannot imagine any way the blade part could be used as a weapon, but I always carry one in my car ( and ensure friends have them too ) - I have tried being upside down in a car at night off an unlit country road with the sound of pouring petrol, and was shall we say keen to get out ) !

When one thinks about it, a heavy side impact on a car may well cause the seats to move together, rendering the release catches out of reach.

Such a safety knife would enable cutting an aircraft harness free; of course the things come with a simple mounting, and their position and purpose must be obvious to everyone, even after the turmoil of an accident.

Why isn't such a thing standard kit ?

When flying just before 9/11 in fairly dodgy Cessna's, the best I could do was to ensure I always had a Swiss Army or similar type knife, and a mini-torch, but I doubt this would be popular as SLF !

[Capot]

I thought I saw a post that suggested that the problem may not have been the seatbelt but the front of the aircraft collapsing rearwards to trap the pilot, but I can't find it now. It's a possibility, perhaps as well as a failed harness catch.

This happened when a Skyvan was ditched near Abu Dhabi, and only the pilot's considerable strength and the fact that he was a keen SCUBA diver saved him when the nose pitched down well below the water level. The panel was, in his words "in my lap" and escaping was very difficult.

I suspect that many smaller twins are not designed to protect the pilot(s) when they hit the sea, even if the speed is at the stall, and the nose would simply crumple, pushing the panel backwards. Is that the case?

[cessnapuppy]

I have tried being upside down in a car at night off an unlit country road with the sound of pouring petrol, and was shall we say keen to get out )

Did the very same thing in a rental car, only it was (luckily) broad daylight. I was upside down like you, the windshield a matted glass welcome mat in my lap. (no airbag deployment, btw)

I had bought one of those cutter things but it was nowhere to be found, neither was my cellphone, which had been in the cupholder. Exactly as you've described, debris and **** had made the release latches unreachable, luckily I was able to contort and squirm upside down till I was free.

The smell of gas was everywhere, and I was glad I wasnt a smoker.


I've since made a velcro pouch which I keep the tool and a cell phone. and have it affixed to the seat belt itself. The cell is permanently wired to the car cigarette lighter to keep it charged and never leaves the car.
(if you have a cell in the US , even if its 'off contract' it can still be used to dial 911)

It was particularly sobering for me as I thought I was prepared and as it turns out, not quite enough. I've seen enough wind-tossed planes like that after hurricanes and seen the front end-crumple damage you talk about. Cramped as these cockpits already are..... :(
My heart goes out to his family.

[IslandPilot]

Firstly my condolences to Robert's family. They were interviewed on Sky News this morning and apparently his remains and the aircraft have not yet been recovered. I flew 260hp Islanders for over 25 years and even in near ISA conditions single engine performance is almost non-existant. On a few occasions we had to carry out SE performance checks for issue of C of A with the aircraft ballasted to within 10% of MTOW, which nessessitated a full feather of the critical engine at 500' amsl and a 5min climb to measure performance. If lucky you might get 100 fpm in still air but this required playing around with the recommended IAS to establish optimum ROC. At ISA+15 it would definitely be a drift down situation.

I agree with all the comments made by MyNameIsIs, it is essential to weigh all pax freight and baggage to prevent overloads, but unfortunately commercial pressures are always there. It is very easy to put the C of G beyond the aft limit without accurate W&B info, which will adversly effect controllability with an engine out.

[Little cloud]

An update on 'progress' of the investigation here:

Robert Mansell Family's Plea For Body Of British Hero Pilot 'Killed' In Caribbean Island Of Bonaire | World News | Sky News (http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Robert-Mansell-Familys-Plea-For-Body-Of-British-Hero-Pilot-Killed-In-Caribbean-Island-Of-Bonaire/Article/200911115429685?lpos=World_News_Second_World_News_Article_Te aser_Region_2&lid=ARTICLE_15429685_Robert_Mansell_Familys_Plea_For_Body_Of _British_Hero_Pilot_Killed_In_Caribbean_Island_Of_Bonaire)

From reading the various news reports I assume there are no practical reasons why the aircraft and hopefully the pilot's body can't be recovered. After all G-BOMG was recovered in it's entirety from the seabed west of Campbeltown in a much less benevolent climate.