New Jetstar Engineering Base.

[chockchucker]

Whilst I applaud Jetstar for looking to bring work on-shore and create local jobs, I do wonder where all the qualified LAME's are going to come from?.. Good news for the local industry though and should swing the pendulum of supply and demand well and truly back in favour of the LAME's when negotiating EBA's (you would hope)



Jetstar in three-way talks on bases



Steve Creedy, Aviation writer | October 12, 2009
Article from: The Australian

JETSTAR is in advanced talks with three state governments about establishing a second Australian heavy-maintenance base and a new engineering-training centre.

The low-cost Qantas offshoot has an existing Airbus A320 maintenance facility in Newcastle, NSW, but needs a second base to cope with its aggressive growth. It has also not ruled out taking work from other airlines.

The carrier is keen to establish the engineering academy to provide a pipeline of skilled labour for its Australian operations, but says it could also act as a training centre for engineers across its Asian brands.

The airline hopes to have the new heavy-maintenance facility established by next year and estimates it would initially create about 100 skilled jobs. But it says there is the potential, when the training academy is included, for this to grow to 300.

The facility would look at both narrow- and wide-body aircraft maintenance, as well as doing work for the Singapore-based Jetstar Asia fleet, and executives say it has attracted strong interest from the three governments.

"We're far down the track in terms of evaluation of options but we've got a broad set of options and they include all the major centres on the east coast," Jetstar chief executive Bruce Buchanan said. "We're looking at Sydney, Melbourne and the Gold Coast for the three primary options."

Mr Buchanan said the new facilities were likely to be set up in a staged approach. He said the positioning of the training academy and maintenance base were not necessarily directly linked.

"But we're definitely keen to get the two decisions ticked off," he said. "We could have the heavy-maintenance facility somewhere and a training academy in another city. So they're not directly linked, but we see a need for the two of them and the two will be quite complementary towards each other if we can get both of them up and running."

Like other Australian carriers, Jetstar is facing an ageing labour force of licensed aircraft-maintenance engineers (LAMEs) who sign off on heavy-maintenance work and are closely involved in the airline's line maintenance.

It takes time to train a LAME because they first have to complete an apprenticeship and work for some time as an aircraft maintenance engineer (AME).

Jetstar needs its heavy-maintenance facilities to funnel through AMEs to the next level and will use the training academy as a pipeline to provide replacements.
Story

[Gobetter]

Cancer.

Once it takes hold, it spread's like wildfire.

[qf 1]

how about that big empty hanger 245 maybe set up and apprentice school in alexandria, a tech training over near the engine line and maybe employee some LAME's to train apprentices for the hands on work,dead set Qantas have some real deadsh*ts running the place.oh maybe get K C to run the whole show now he is back from his stint at City Rail.

[Managers Perspective]

Yeah, and we will call it "Purvinas Park".

Because I doubt you would get one out on time.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

Maybe the reference should be confined to the ALAEA. Of all the heavy maintenance facilities in Australia, there is one that is 100% union, Qantas Tulla. They carry out 737 C and D checks in a quicker time than any maintenance facility in the world.

[qf 1]

i could imagine what the on time performance would be if they had people like you running it managers perspective.it's knuckle heads like you that shut down Sydney Heavy to save a quick buck,then realized what you had in on time performance and quality .yet it was sitting under your noses the WHOLE TIME..

[Going Boeing]

Guys, don't feed the troll.

MP is a wannabe airline CEO but with his total lack of business nous, his airline would go under very quickly.

[Ngineer]

MP is a wannabe airline CEO but with his total lack of business nous, his airline would go under very quickly.

Sounds like he would be perfect for the job then. The only requirement for such a role is a snout, not knowledge or experience!

[Torqueman]

And again it's all about Sydney.

Get over it guys!

You guys had the cheek to complain about the Ansett guys going on and on.........

[ampclamp]

One post mentioned sydney and lets face it the empty hangars are a bit of a waste.The rest was slanging off.
I dont really care where jetstar do their stuff by the way as long as its done here in oz.
Anywhere but Sydney actually.
Not enough parking spots now.

[Managers Perspective]

Of all the heavy maintenance facilities in Australia, there is one that is 100% union, Qantas Tulla. They carry out 737 C and D checks in a quicker time than any maintenance facility in the world.

Now there's a massive statement.

Measured by who, how, and against what?

"quicker time than any maintenance facility in the world"

WOW!

[rammel]

I think the statement about MEL Heavy has been acknowledged by Boeing.

[Torqueman]

What about the cost of those checks in MEL?

I'll bet they don't come cheap.

How long does it take them to turn around a 737 freighter?

I heard they set a record on that one too (not for shortest time).

[ampclamp]

Hey mangers perspective you guys run the show dont you ,so who is responsible if its so so bad, lol.

qantas has the most bloated self serving middle management , maint control and associated hangers on I have seen in over 30 years in the industry.Sadly some of the empires are run and preserved by ex engineers with delusions of management grandeur.

[chockchucker]

Torqueman,


they come $11 per man hour cheaper than JHAS (QF's figures not mine) and XMR's turn time was dictated by management and extensive sheetie work including keel beam change (among the many things the folk at JHAS or CHC do not seem to be geared up for).


All reports suggest that AAE are more than happy with the product. So much so that the other three freighters are coming to Tulla. :ok:

[NOT QF LAME]

I have sat and watched this forum for some time now but can no longer stay silent to the Cr**p that is peddalled pretending to be unionism.

What we have is the group pretending to support LAMES in the industry slagging off other facilities Avalon (lowly Forstaff workers) and John Holland (Ex Ansett so they must be not as good as theworld experts).

The union fees paid by members who do not work for Qantas are the same as those for qantas.

ALAEA Fed sec you support more than QF LAMES!!

Of course when the truth cmes out all you really support is your desire to feather your nest and perpetuate the 1970's practices of a bloated and overpaid group of primadonnas.
How is the campaign for election to federal politics going, you have as much credibility as Greg Combet and Jullia Gillard.


Rant over

[ampclamp]

which posts that are attributable to the alaea slag the other lame's and bases?
Pls provide the links I'd like to see them.

Having read etorque pretty much every month I see representation on many fronts.
QF gets a lot of space on these boards because of sheer numbers in the industry , most of whom whinge about the place not put others down.

[NOT QF LAME]

Ref post #5 a blatant reference to how much better QF Mel is because it is 100% union

also post #14 it sounds like someone in QF management (MB) has been feeding Sh*t to his staff and they are lapping it up and asking for more.

XMO 4CF check TAT 72 Days at JHAS including Keel beam changes QF Management and LAME active disruption and low priority for Engineering responses.

XMR TAT 85days at the worlds best Qantas 737 facility.

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You people should be fighting to keep work in Australia wether it is done in a QF facility or not.

[600ft-lb]

XMO 4CF check TAT 72 Days at JHAS including Keel beam changes QF Management and LAME active disruption and low priority for Engineering responses.

XMR TAT 85days at the worlds best Qantas 737 facility.
What is the point in quoting the turn times of 2 particular aircraft, both of which would considered to be clapped out (hence the reason they're consigned to freighter duties).

Now quote the statistics from the facility of all aircraft that enter and leave that facility over a year and get back to us for some relevance.

What the ALAEA FED SEC was alluding to, in my opinion, is a unionised workforce isn't what the previous howard government drummed into the Australian psyche, that being outdated, expensive, inflexible etc. In fact in this case its quite the opposite. People who don't work for Qantas like to bag it because their workers have conditions outsiders do not. How popular is the hours per year thing at John Holland, especially now that there has been a few peaks and troughs ?

And for some extra relevance, go and have a look at the EBA's for Qantas LAME's, the money is not that good relative to other airlines, even JHAS or virgin unless you've been at Qantas for 30 years with 10 types. Most of the guys haven't though. The points system was pushed for by management in the first place, so you can't blame the union for that!

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. You people should be fighting to keep work in Australia wether it is done in a QF facility or not.

The aircraft in the HM facilities atm are on a planned slow turn time due to the global financial crisis. This is the alternative to Qantas parking aircraft up against the fence. 72 or 85 days does not even come close to a realistic time for the 737 c checks.

By May 2008 the Qf HM facility operating one line had reduced the c check turn time to 19 days. Around the same time they celebrated 52 aircraft in succession being completed on schedule.

Don't assume the ALAEA aren't fighting to get work in Australia. We were over the moon to see the Embraer work being assigned to JH.

The QF Mel facility has proved itself to be the benchmark for many reasons. It has an extremely high ratio of LAMEs to AMEs because our union has fought over a long period of time to get training for our members and the younger kids as they come out of their time. The facility does not have a high staff turnover because they get fair wages and stable conditions.

If JH treats its staff with respect, trains to an appropriate level and employs some half decent managers I'm sure they could also pump them out in 19 days. At this stage it appears that they are more intent on spending their days ensuring that the AMWU and ALAEA can't get on to the base. A co-operative relationship will be beneficial for all parties.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

After now reading the earlier post I have no problem putting a few things on the record to dispel some of the rubbish that a number of managers like you are starting to spread.

Of course when the truth cmes out all you really support is your desire to feather your nest and perpetuate the 1970's practices of a bloated and overpaid group of primadonnas.


I took a 30k per annum pay cut to work as a full time Secretary of our union. I love my job because I get to work with Engineers all over Australia to help them with the various issues that arise in their workplaces. I don't work shift work but I think I have to do more work at night now than I ever did.

How is the campaign for election to federal politics going, you have as much credibility as Greg Combet and Jullia Gillard.

I have never been a member of any political party. I find politics completely boring and would rather be a truck driver. Keep this post and give it to the papers - let them know that I have voted Greens, Liberal, Labor and One Nation. I am not seeking credibility in your eyes, I just want to assure our members that their current Secretary wants nothing more than to stay put.

I'm tipping that you aren't a Qf LAME - I will have a punt and say a Virgin manager. Ex Emirates to boot and extremely angry about our last notice.

[listentome]

If JH treats its staff with respect, trains to an appropriate level and employs some half decent managers


Could you clarify this statement, seems a bit odd to bring these three things into this discussion.....

[chockchucker]

Not QF LAME.


F.Y.I. it was the AAE board that directed that, following their experience with XMO at JHAS, the remaining freighters be maintained at QF Tulla.


Like it or not, JHAS just aren't geared up properly to do major maintenance on ageing aircraft. Hence, even they have scaled back their heavy maint. ambitions to a single line only (full of new-ish Virgin Embraers just now). With the remaining lines being mostly Jetstar and Tiger A checks and Tiger line maintenance as well as some strategic and Virgin NG work. Nothing stopping JHAS from gearing right up. Only it would take some further Capital investment. Perhaps there is the stumbling block?


What does make ones blood boil is when, after signing a contract to maintain the strategic A330's, JHAS come calling to QF to "borrow" parts to troubleshoot defects (A330 apu defect was the last one I heard of). They then look bemused when they are rightly told, in my opinion, that it's their contract and it's up to them to support it with all the equipment and parts necessary. Can't have your cake and eat it too by undercutting your competitors and then expect them to come and bail you out of the poo by borrowing their spare parts for free!


Meanwhile, the trail of the new Jetstar heavy maint base seems to have gone cold. Especially for a facility that is to be up and running by February. Anybody heard anything more?

[SRM]

Chockchucker,

I think the hiring of tooling and parts works both ways, recently QF wanted to hire the JHAS hanger to do some work on a 747.

SRM

[600ft-lb]

An otherwise empty hangar is one thing.

A rotable that could leave a QF plane AOG somewhere because its on a Strategic aircraft is another.

[SeldomFixit]

If your pooling and spares people gave away an item that exposed you to that extent, they should be replaced. Simple really. An IATA carrier is obligated to supply any other IATA carrier.

[Twitter n Bisted]

Simple really. An IATA carrier is obligated to supply any other IATA carrier.

Very true but you need to be a member of IATA first :ok:

[Ngineer]

Whilst I applaud Jetstar for looking to bring work on-shore and create local jobs, I do wonder where all the qualified LAME's are going to come from?..

I wonder if any of the employees will be of the 457 visa type?

[Torqueman]

ALAEA Fed Sec,

in regards to your comment on JHAS management.......

who cares if you don't get along with them.

Your duty is to represent the members there, not be pals with management. Just because you are fighting with management, doesn't mean you should neglect the members there who help pay your wages.

So what was it you were saying again about jobs for Aussie workers?

Oh I forgot, It's jobs for Qantas workers!

Where is the work going???????

I bet it's not staying in Australia.

[ALAEA Fed Sec]

If JH treats its staff with respect, trains to an appropriate level and employs some half decent managers I'm sure they could also pump them out in 19 days. At this stage it appears that they are more intent on spending their days ensuring that the AMWU and ALAEA can't get on to the base. A co-operative relationship will be beneficial for all parties.

This is what I said. Some of the Managers at JH spend more time preventing ALAEA access to the site preventing a co-operative relationship. We do represent our members at JH against all the obstacles placed in front of us by the managers. This year we have had more meetings with JH members than we have had with the Qantas members. The JH meetings have all been offsite at the Melbourne Airport Club.

Peddle your stories elsewhere bloke.

[OlAME]

Stop whingeingFed Sec and start doing yor job , it is not laid on for you at JHA . All the hard work was done at QF years ago , before the ALAEA existed .Your turn now but your are doing what all LAME's do whinge.

[ampclamp]

I reckon he is.He secured a better pay rise than anyone else has since working the airline game, so in that regard he's doing just fine by me.And thanks for the chance to tell you so:cool:

[blow.n.gasket]

Pretty easy picking out the Management stooges ,isn't it!:ok:

[Ngineer]

I reckon he is.He secured a better pay rise than anyone else has since working the airline game,


And not just for LAMEs, but for all other workers at QF who scored similar conditions from our efforts. :ok:

[empire4]

To ALAEA Fed Sec,

As a current LAME who has worked for a few companies in OZ i applaud you and your efforts. I know i speak for alot of LAME's when i say we r proud that you are in front of us and what you are trying to achieve. please don't listen to the BS that some wankers leave on here. cheers mate.

[OlAME]

if its so good what is all the wailing about . Oh , i should know , its in the LAME DNA . Watch you guys don't
kill the golden goose .

[qf 1]

theres one goose here oiame and it ain't the fed sec......

[Torqueman]

Don't worry about the management stooges>

Just listen to the dribble coming from the Qantas stooges.

Gee can we have some more back slapping..?

I think I'm going to vomit.

Reading some of the praise is worse than watching a chick flick.

What about answering the question.....where is the Jetstar work going to go?

Overseas I bet....

Let's have another campaign where we shut the gate after the horse has bolted. We all know how well the work gets done overseas.

[Engineer_aus]

So now all you ladies have had your winge, how about talk about the topic. The next Jetstar base. Perhaps Adelaide or Perth would be a good un tapped spot with plenty of land around. However it will most likely end up at Brisbane where the RAAF A330 tanker program is.