Qantas to employ 100 apprentice engineers.

[limelight]

From today's Flightglobal

Qantas employing 100 apprentice engineers (http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/10/07/333157/qantas-employing-100-apprentice-engineers.html)

The 92%figure quoted is interesting.

[Ken Borough]

Let's hope that these young people get to complete their apprenticeships, unlike many that have preceeded them, and that they go on to enjoy long and successful careers!

[OlAME]

KB , only one class in the last 20 years did not graduate 1997 , thank you Mr Toomey. Good news , for the AME's . They stuck , not like their lame mates. Bludgers

[Ngineer]

and that they go on to enjoy long and successful careers!

Wish this was the case. But unfortunately they will end up stuck at an AME level, with little propect of ever becoming a LAME unless they wish to move far away from home. These poor young lads are being trained in a highly specialised field, with no recognised qualifications outside of the indusrty, in what has basically become a dead end job. And that's just the start, lets hope none of them tick the "Avionics" box!!:rolleyes:

[plasticmerc]

cheap labour!!!
thats how you keep your expenses down.

Good luck to the chosen ones, i wish you all the best!

[ROH111]

Good to see some movement with respect to recruitment! Goodness, how quickly we lose sight of what could have happened with retrenchments only 4-6 months ago.

Bigger picture peoples.

[Wod]

I know I have been wound up, but really!!

These poor young lads are being trained in a highly specialised field,

I'm the employer, what field would I train them in??

cheap labour!!!
thats how you keep your expenses down.


Apprentices cost money, they don't represent cheap labour. The investment is in their potential. Maybe a year 4 is a breakeven proposition from an employer point of view.

And not all QF apprentices, at the end of their apprenticeships, are employed by QF. But aviation benefits.

Applies to all major employers in all mainstream industries.

[evolved]

What % of these apprentices can expect to get a licence out of QF?

[Ngineer]

Apprentices cost money, they don't represent cheap labour.

Subsidised by the gov. (And alot cheaper than an AME/LAME). And not guaranteed employment after completion.

Watching an AME complete an engineering apprenticeship these days is obviously a little bit off field to how you would percieve it to be WOD. Or maybe you might speak to a few of those who have recently completed theirs.

[Beeroclock]

Been there done that would never work for them again..Alot of mates went back only to be again layed off!! Im sure they will get plenty of people apply but i certainly wouldnt recommend it..
Ps the only box to tick is Avionics for those that apply...:rolleyes:

[Ngineer]

What % of these apprentices can expect to get a licence out of QF?


Under current management, most likely zero.

[Wod]

Sorry guys, but I still don't get your point.

Should QF simply stop the apprenticeship scheme and rely on someone else to produce appropriately qualified staff to meet its requirements?

It would certainly save QF a motza in the short term, and as an employer of choice (no sarcasm intended) they could probably poach qualified AME/LAME from around the smaller outfits and the military whenever needed..

Is that your proposal?

[Mr.Buzzy]

What a sooky pack of girls half of you lot are!

The apprenticeship scheme is terrific! The QF apprenticeship scheme in particular is an amazing opportunity for a school leaver (or anyone else these days) to learn skills, learn the industry, be with great people and to get paid at the same time!!!!!!!

What are the alternatives? Paying money to attend some half arsed uni. aviation management course? Become an educated idiot?

Good luck to those applying for next years QF apprenticeship. Try really hard, it is well worth it! You'll come out after 4 years with skills to fix aeroplanes, the confidence to tackle jobs around your house and looking beyond your trade; a basis on which to build your chosen aviation career!

Good luck people!!!

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzz:ok:

[Ngineer]

What are the alternatives? Paying money to attend some half arsed uni. aviation management course?

Maybe an engineering cadetship with Energy Australia, or an electrical or building trade. There are plenty of options for school leavers.

I am simply stating the facts from experience. I have even seen an apprentice who had another job as a manager for KFC! Guess which job paid more, and guess where his commitments, therefore, were. There are a few AME's out there working part time jobs to make ends meet because they are being paid less than cleaners!

Last year we saw heaps of AME's walk out the door due to no career path. The reason behind this has yet to be addressed.

Mr Buzzy, I may have agreed with your comments 12 years ago, but not now. Infact I doubt that many in Engineering would.

[qf 1]

i had a great apprenticeship a HDH Bankstown,and ended up at the Rat due to there being no on else to work for really in Sydney on airframes, that paid a half descent wage.once i got there i found the wages to be terrible,but ha i got my 747 license in a short time only to be shown the door in 2006 with 450 others,i now manage a liquor store with a much brighter future than aircraft maintenance engineers in Australia.sad really because i really did love the game,but i have a family to feed.....

[BigGun]

An apprentice who lives more than 60odd Km from home gets living away from home allowance and circa 03 was around $80 per week tax free.

Others living more than 65Km from TAFE also get traveling allowance too.

From a class of 15 we had 4 End up wanting jobs at the end of there time.

Expect to see at least half of that 50 to apply or less wanting job with the current state of engineering.

[woollcott]

Unfortunately, its to little, to late. There is already a shortage of engineers, and none of these apprentices will graduate until 2014...
They should of had some foresight and employed 5-6 years ago.
QF also lost the plot when they closed down the Melb apprentice school (after 40+ years) and tendered it out to Kangan Tafe

HR must also take some flak for employing 52 year old 1st year apprentices!!!!! what exactly were they thinking???

[arbite]

He's 58 actually.. 62 when he becomes qualified so they'll get 3 years out of him before he retires. :ugh:

The only good thing about these apprenticeships are that the kangan tafe courses run in parallel with Aviation Australia, so that all the training done at tafe actually goes towards the casa basics.

Also from that article; "He says Qantas needs to have more engineers so it can handle more aircraft maintenance work."

Well in melbourne there's a very large percentage of ame/lame that are over 50. So in the next 10 years, qantas better start training up some more ame's otherwise there'll be an even larger shortage then there currently is. Actually it probably doesn't matter, maintenance will go offshore anyway :rolleyes:

[poacher2gamekeeper]

They are promised a trade, not a lifelong job, me thinks. You need to work hard for that don't you? ....unless there is such a thing as an apprentice LAME. Oh! I forgot...there is, a sh^tload of them been around for 20+ years just pushing areoplanes around the tarmac. :rolleyes:

What about apprentice ground handlers? Now there's a career going places.

P2G

[whissper]

To arbite

The Aviation Australia exams do not count towards CASA Basics. I should know as I have done AA course and I would have resit all the CASA exams if I wanted a CASA license (and part of me does but $$$) as the CAO 100.66 / Part 66 license is only going to be use to organisations like Qantas, Jetstar, Virgin and maybe Tiger. For the vast bulk of MROs in Australia the existing system seems to be ok.

[arbite]

Well this thread is about Qantas apprenticeships. So if you do an apprenticeship with Qantas, and hence do the AA package, then yes once it gets approved it does go towards it.

[Gas Bags]

Remember that there is a whole world of aviation out there besides one company called Qantas. These apprentices can learn their trade, study, get their hours up and pick up a license. If QF choose not to recognise that licence then they can go and work for another company and dare I say it earn more money than QF would pay them anyway.

[Arnold E]

can go and work for another company and dare I say it earn more money than QF would pay them anyway.
Care to enlighten us as to where that might be????

[Gas Bags]

Arnold,

Just off the top of my head..VirginTech. If a young engineer picks up a 737-800 licence at Qantas and the company does not wish to recognise said license that person can take said license down the road to VT and earn over 100,000 pa as a base rate. I think that is more than QF will pay that person if they did recognise said license.

Then there is National Jet, Jetstar, MAS, ST Aero, Dragon Air....should I go on?

Like I said, aviation does exist outside of the red rat.

GB

[rmm]

If a young engineer picks up a 737-800 licence at Qantas and the company does not wish to recognise said license that person can take said license down the road to VT and earn over 100,000 pa as a base rate

Try telling that to some of the unrecognized AME's at VT

[another superlame]

Nice sentiment about taking your QF 737NG licence to VT, but in reality it aint gunna happen. Gas bag you live in a dreamworld when it comes to VT and licencing.

[empire4]

Sadly i have to agree with alot of people that getting into aviation is not the most finacial position you could want to be in. I was a QF apprentice which i think was a very good start to being a LAME. Not the best place to stay, and def only pays well after many years, licences and scewing over those who will follow you.

for the potential Apprentices; i say this. Some guys in QF are great teachers, others will harrass and victimise you. Unfortunetly, due to the marketing power machine at QF you will probably watch the females be trained, awarded apprentice of the year....blah blah blah whilst having half your knowledge and determination. I know guys who went 20 years not getting trained, then i know guys who got a course a few months out of their time, (their old man worked up stairs).

you can always go pay for a course, $6K-$10K for the course, time off 6-12 weeks, etc. then you have to get the SOE. Next when you try get a LAME job you will be up against the immigrants that the govn. has decided are needed to keep the wages low. by the way, these guys all have 4+++ licences and on paper all look very good. WE all know that their skill and knowledge is less, however new airlines/MRO's just want you to sign the card.

Ask around how many AME's left QF in the last 10 years. alot.

have i missed anything....

[IAW]

empire4, the guys who get training quickly don't always have daddy upstairs looking after them. A mate of mine was in QF engineering at the right place and right time - quite a few LAMEs were retiring and accepting VRs. So they started training more guys up and he was one of them. Thats the same as how I got my type course - when the industry is booming there is faster career progression.

[empire4]

IAW, sorry mate. wasn't meant to be pointed that everyone has a dad upstairs, just seen alot of connected guys that jump the more capable guys. There are guys that do get trained on merit.

[Gas Bags]

Dear QF Super Lame,

Sorry about the late reply, I have been tied up for a few days. I dont believe that I live in a dreamworld regarding VT (although I admit I do not work for them or for VB). I happened to see their recently posted adverts looking for 737NG rated LAME's in various bases around Australia. Sorry if this made me assume that they may have LAME positions available. Entirely my mistake and sorry again for any inconveniance this assumption may have caused you, or for anybody out there with a 737-800 licence who may be interested in a job, and possibly higher pay. My bad!

P.S. Good luck to all successful apprentices at QF, make the most of what is unquestionably some of the worlds best training at QF, and please try not to get caught up in the dreamworld that QF Superlame is trapped in. It is a big world out there.

All the best,

GB.

[Orangputi]

Hey guys just my two cents worth,

I agree totally about the degredation of conditions/ pay and lack of respect from corporate fat cats who only care about this years bonus at the expense of a once great airline (we know who that was he should be locked away with the rest of the criminals!).

Having said that a Qantas Apprenticeship is a great opportunity for any young guy/gal. It is a good grounding and it doesnt mean you have to stay at Qantas or in the industry, but it teaches more than technical skills it also teaches you life skills. I know so many people that have finished their respective apprenticeships and gone on to great jobs, often nothing to do with Aviation.

I think doing the QF apprenticeship was the making of many people including myself.

Just my views dont shoot me all at once.

[Gas Bags]

White Man,

Somebody making sense....Good to see.

For people who desire to stay and work an entire career at a legacy carrier it is indeed a marvellous opportunity.

For others that dont end up working an entire career at a legacy carrier it is still a marvellous opportunity.

GB.