Jobs in Saudi Arabia

[cyrus]

Fancy loads of tax free money in a country where the sun always shines? You can sell your soul to British Waste o Space and do just that in Saudi Arabia – but be careful. The Company might be the same one that built the jets you have enjoyed flying or working on for years in an organisation that looked after you well but they are not to be trusted to the same extent you once trusted the military. They have a contract with a police state and they seem unable or unwilling at the moment to exercise any influence on behalf of their workforce.

So, if you need the dosh, read your contract carefully before you sign it. Watch out particularly for job descriptions that sound a bit like General Duties and phrases like “as determined by the Company”. Do not under any circumstances trust the Company to interpret anything fairly or in your favour and insist on a full job description that you are happy with. If you are new to employment contracts, run yours by a solicitor before you sign it. Remember that you will be working directly for the Saudi Air Farce and they will screw you around if your job description allows them to – they will try even if it doesn’t!

You also need to be aware that, once in Saudi, you will be a virtual prisoner and will only be permitted an exit visa if the Saudi Air Farce and the Company agree to give you one. Weekend visits to Bahrain, Jordan or Dubai will only be possible infrequently and with plenty of notice. The Company will hold your passport and even a compassionate exit will take some time to arrange.

If you think you can try the job and bail out if you don’t like it, remember that you will have to pay tax on your salary if you have not completed a full tax year abroad (April to April)– so May is a very bad month to start!

[BEagle]

So life as a mercenary has its downside then? Those who think that there's "Money for Nothing" might well learn a lot from your post!

Personally I prefer the freedom, pubs, rain, bacon sandwiches, lack of Ramadan and lack of public executions in the UK to having 'all the gold you can eat' in the Kingdom. Even if we are shafted by non-pensionable flying pay on which many of us pay 40% tax, plus having to fly clapped-out old wrecks for HMFC!

Anyone who wants to trust BWoS mercenary scheme - BEWARE!!

[Ghostflyer]

Hey Beagle, come to Dubai and join Emirates. You'll have to trade Ramadan for the rain but that just means you won't be able to drink booze at lunchtime, unless you are in your house or your mates house for a month. That shouldn't be too much heartache as long as you remember to stop at the offy.

As for pubs, there are more of those than you can shake a stick at but the ones in Dubai have babes in, not some knackered old farmer whining about foot and mouth. So you'll be able to drink beer, stare at babes and eat bacon sandwhiches that don't send you loopy. You will miss out on the discussions about whether or not the last 18 months rain has anything to do with global warming or whether or not the weather in the Uk is just crap.

Also no executions, no tax and lots of shiny new aircraft. And horror of all horrors they have even taken an F-111 mate from Oz and a brit FJ pilot straight from the military.

Your choice, live in a rainy country with loads of tax or live in a sunny place, sometimes a tad too sunny but beats rain, and visit the rainy place twice a month to see just how dull the grass really is on the other side of the fence.

[BEagle]

Yes - have to agree that Dubai is a much pleasanter place for a Brit than the Kingdom! Had a great week there in 1989 when we tanked the first GR5 Harrier out to the Dubai Air Show. Everything you say is right on the money! And the Emirates cabin crew we met were really top ladies!!

If you're flying for Emirates, say 'Hi' to "D'Rekly" when he turns up!!

[This message has been edited by BEagle (edited 29 May 2001).]

[cyrus]

A response to this thread from a 172 instructor in Riyadh has been deleted. Is this an example of censorship in response to an external request or is it just a quirk of the system. Anyone out there able to offer an opinion?

[WibbleOne]

Cyrus and BEagle

You can have cake etc etc. I am one of those mercenaries, and yes fully agree with your first post. However, you do not have to give up the Queen's shilling. Be a secondee.

[L J R]

Do secondee's pay tax, what is their wage compared to BAE, do thet get 'free' family care [housing, school etc...] Do they get similar leave entitlements/restrictions etc. to their 'civvie' mates.


Just asking...

[Blue Stuff]

Hey BEagle.

I fly clapped-out old wrecks in HMFC ... Harrogate Model Flying Club. :)

Sorry ...

[BEagle]

Sorry mate - I'd better start calling us "HM'sFC" then!

[Mactor]

L J R:

I returned from a tour in Saudi as a secondee just over a year ago. You pay and conditions are exactly the same as a BAe company man; ie no tax, free accommodation, same leave entitlement etc. The best bit as a secondee is having the RAF "safety net". ie if it all goes wrong you can come back to the RAF instead of being unemployed v quickly.

I enjoyed my 2 & 1/2 years & saved a shed load of money, but it's not everyones cup of tea.

[WibbleOne]

LJR

Salaam Alaykam

Concur with Mactor, however, you still get treated as described by Cyrus. You need to grow elephant skin and drop your hi RAF standards, and when they get you down, stare lovingly at your paycheck. By the way it's not good out here for the other half unless you have some small sprogs to keep them occupied!!.

[cravenmoorehead]

Cyrus,

I have the honour of sailing in the same ship of fools as Saudi Satan. Basically what you said is correct. Can't risk "upsetting the customer" now, can we?

Greed is good...........

[cyrus]

I hear that BWoS have just fired the only manager at Dhahran who was prepared to stand up for the workforce when the customer was 'out of order' and that was at the direction of the customer. Guess it is a Saudi-run company now - why bother to pay the ex-pat managers?

[billie]

Hey Cyrus,
don't you just love the way this company does business!

Beats me why you don't leave and get a life!

[Brunel]

billie

I thought cyrus had already left.

If you can't stand the heat......

[Sid and Coke]

I worked as a crewchief at DHA until recently, no bacon, no pubs, no drinking where were you ? I had a great time whilst i was there, sure there where a few little incidents but you get that anywhere. All the shops are open from 0900 - 2130, NO street crime, you can park your car in the middle of town leave all your shopping on the back seat in full view with the doors unlocked and it will still be there when you get back try doing that i some of our towns. there was only 1 chop in Kho whilst i was there (3.5 years) and when my trainee told me what the guy had done he deserved it. I dont know when it will be but i'll certainly be going back.

------------------
With Ice Please

[L J R]

I've been told by BAe that Tabuk has Two SQNs of Hawks - One teaching Air to Air and One teaching Air To Ground. Is this a fact, or rumour by BAe.

Does RSAF 'Stream' its FJ to be studs.


..... Just asking.

[Captain Sand Dune]

LJR,

Yep, Tabuk currently hosts 2 Hawk squadrons. One does conversions, the other lead-in fighter training.
RSAF pilot cadets are trained at Riyadh, and do about 12 hours "screening" on a C-172 before completing the rest of the course on the PC-9 to "wings" standard. Thereis no "streaming" as such during this course.

[Captain Sand Dune]

LJR,

Forgot to mention.....think v.carefully if you want this job. It's based in Tabuk, and although I have not been there I understand the place is a $%^&ing dump. A lot of the current Hawk drivers are apparently less than impressed.
Any Tabuk based Hawk drivers may care to elborate.

[BEagle]

Utterly awful place! Where weird BWoS types sit around counting their money whilst drinking a filthy concoction of Kaliber, Jeddah Gin.....and gravy browning.

[newswatcher]

Warning, article from today's DT:

"HUNDREDS of British expatriate workers are stranded in Saudi Arabia because their exit visas have been frozen as a result of a row between a Saudi prince and the defence contractor, BAE Systems, relatives said last night.

The ban has infuriated Britons in Dhahran, where they are working on the aerospace company's £50 billion Al-Yamamah contract to supply Tornado jets and other defence equipment. It comes at a time when many expatriates are preparing to return home for the summer holidays or meet relatives in nearby Bahrain.

Even cases of compassionate leave have been blocked, said relatives. It is unclear how many people have been affected, as some of the Britons are on short one-off contracts and have been able to leave, while others have multiple re-entry visas.

British consular staff in Dhahran last night were holding an emergency meeting with senior officials from BAE Systems to resolve the dispute. Senior officials at the Foreign Office tried to limit the damage, saying the row was "no big deal". One said: "There is no blanket ban. People are going on holiday. It's business as usual."

The brother of one British expatriate said the news of the travel ban emerged earlier this week. He said: "There are two rumours circulating among BAE staff as to the source of the dispute. One is that BAE didn't take the prince to the Paris Air Show, the other that they wouldn't give him a new computer.

"Whatever the source of the disagreement, the freedom of movement of expat workers is being seriously infringed on the whim of the prince." The management of BAE Systems has put up a notice telling workers: "Due to circumstances beyond our control, no visas are being issued until further notice."

A spokesman for the company said: "My understanding is that the problem is bureaucratic rather than anything else. At this time of year there is an unusually large number of people seeking exit visas and it takes time to process them." He denied reports that a senior manager at Dhahran had been forced to resign because of the row."

[Big Dog's]

No, I think the senior manager has been sacked because of the row. Prince had to buy his own computer and his travel to the Paris Airshow wasn't booked with his preferred company...........personally...glad I left DHA.

Good luck to all of you stuck there while this is going on!!

[billie]

Glad to hear you got a life, Cyrus.

Understand princey who demanded the only good BwoS manager be fired already had loads of computers out of the project. So, he fires the chap who is incorruptible, refuses to sign the blokes visas and what does the Company do about it? Wonder who paid for the Paris Airshow visit??

Anyone got a Pentium 4 with gold plating and sand filter?

[Captain Sand Dune]

Double H,

Was the sim instructor sacked for being a "naughty boy", or in the interests of "Saudisation"? Happened to a recently-arrived sim instructor at Riyadh a short time ago. He was replaced an indigeneous type with NO instructional background!

If it wasn't for the money.............

[Captain Sand Dune]

Double H,

Was the sim instructor sacked for being a "naughty boy", or in the interests of "Saudisation"? Happened to a recently-arrived sim instructor at Riyadh a short time ago. He was replaced an indigeneous type with NO instructional background!

If it wasn't for the money.............

[Captain Sand Dune]

Double H,

Was the sim instructor sacked for being a "naughty boy", or in the interests of "Saudisation"? Happened to a recently-arrived sim instructor at Riyadh a short time ago. He was replaced an indigeneous type with NO instructional background!

If it wasn't for the money.............

[Captain Sand Dune]

Double H,

Was the sim instructor sacked for being a "naughty boy", or in the interests of "Saudisation"? Happened to a recently-arrived sim instructor at Riyadh a short time ago. He was replaced an indigeneous type with NO instructional background!

If it wasn't for the money.............

[Thud_and_Blunder]

..That's one way to increase your post count, I suppose...

[Captain Sand Dune]

T & B,

Yeah......sorry about that!! Must have the shakes from too much "filthy concoction of Kaliber, Jeddah Gin.....and gravy browning".

Double H,

Pointing out the truth is VERY naughty!!

[Gainesy]

Double H,
Does "wasta" mean "clout"?

[Thud_and_Blunder]

Gainesy,

Get yer knees brown! - as they used to say in the pre-Islamically correct days of yore.

Too right - wasta implies all shades of influence, be it family, wealth, "holiness" or whatever.

[Gainesy]

T&B,
Ta, presumed it did but then it could have been a shortened version of Wastaspace :)

[billie]

A couple of points for the aircrew still left in Saudi.

Firstly, someone in BwoS has sold you out to the customer by telling him that you will do any task within your ability as part of the contract – that might explain why he screws you around but it probably contradicts the job title in your letter of offer. I never saw a job title ‘Universally employable aviation operative’ when I was there and I bet no one has got one now. You might ask the Company to define what duties your job title entails and I’ll speculate that they get a bit evasive.

Secondly, is there a collective reason why the customer has recently demanded the dismissal of a simulator instructor in Dhahran, a senior engineer in Riyadh, a senior manager in Dhahran, a senior simulator instructor in Khamis and has grounded two instructors in Tabuk for well over two months to date for no reason? Answers on company notepaper please.

Finally, a note on the computer saga.

Understand several employees were prevented from removing their personal laptops from place of work for this week end. Apparently they had the dedication to use their own laptops at work because the only computer the customer would provide from the countless millions invested in Al Yamamah was a clapped out 386 and even that had to be given a private hard drive in order to store anything worthwhile. Maybe there is a more worthwhile destination for the gold plated Pentium 4.

[cyrus]

Hey, Billie, yes I have a life!

Ref the laptops, maybe they impounded them to keep the boys off pprune!

[Captain Sand Dune]

Billie,

Quite right!! Contract IPs basically run the show because the indigeneous types are too lazy/stupid etc to do it.
All "exec" positions (fltcdr, schedulers, staneval etc) are run by white boys, and even if one of those positions is filled by a Saudi, he will have a contractor assistant - so guess who does ALL the work!!
It's a perfect set up from their point of view I guess - if something goes wrong, blame the white boy!
When was the senior engineer in Riyadh dismissed?
---------------------------------------------

"Mohammed, you're as good as a Chinese fighter pilot!"

[billie]

CSD

The week before last, I hear.

For 'interrupting during a meeting'.

Land of free speech?

[Roller Merlin]

Yes - go for the money but be careful, and expect things not to go as advertised. Corruption is very much alive at the top levels in Saudi and BAe as anyone who has worked there can tell. Yet for all the cash and huge amounts of oil flowing to the UK and big salaries paid by BAe, the RSAF continues to be ripped off badly, and pitiful and pathetic examples are legendary.

Photocopier held together by stickytape, QFIs accused of stealing toner from said machine, all hell broke lose for using blue ink instead of black, maint release always done in pencil to escape blame if minor mismatch occurred, buying own material to get work jobs done, catering for the whims of individual locals who have permanent bipolar disorder, having to tell your mates they are about to be sacked because the local bosses are so spineless, etc...

And the comment about puting the flack jackets on is so right!

A pity the houseofsaud wbsite disappeared...but try www.angloarabia.com/ (http://www.angloarabia.com/)
or www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,288254,00.html (http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,288254,00.html)

[billie]

Quiet week - nobody fired?

Understand UPs now limited to >200kts <30 deg pitch - what is unusual about the rest of the envelope!

Still, if it keeps the contractors from getting the blame!!

Keep drinking the Jeddah.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Heard that a senior engineering type at Riyadh quit suddenly. Seems his parents won about 4 million pounds in the lotto!! Talk about a fantasy come true.
Good luck to him!!!!