Air India pilots, crew slug it out at 30,000 ft

[fromSIN]

From the Times of India:

NEW DELHI: The Maharaja witnessed his first in-flight Mughal-e-Azam at 30,000 feet above sea level on Saturday, as two members of the cabin
crew—one male and one female—slugged it out with the pilot and co-pilot.

Endangering the lives of 106 passengers and grossly violating safety norms, the airline staffers came to blows in the cockpit and galley of the Indian Airlines Airbus A-320 as the aircraft cruised over Pakistan en route to Delhi via Lucknow from Sharjah.

The cabin-vs-cockpit tiff originated on the ground in Sharjah itself and then turned into a full-blown fight once IC 884 took off soon after midnight.

The cabin crew alleged that pilots harassed a 24-year-old female colleague who later filed a molestation complaint against them with the cops after the flight landed in Delhi.

The pilots, on the other hand, accused a male flight purser of misconduct that seriously compromised flight safety, and said the accusation of molestation aimed to protect the complainant's purser friend—who has a commercial pilot licence (CPL)—from facing action.

No party denied that blows and abuses were exchanged as bewildered passengers looked on. Sources said that the female cabin crew member and the co-pilot sustained bruises.

Confirming the in-flight fight, Air India said it had ordered an inquiry and had grounded the staff members involved. The Directorate General of Civil Aviation has also ordered a probe.

There were unconfirmed reports that at one stage the cockpit was unmanned, as the crew was busy fighting outside. Things allegedly degenerated to the point where the captain threatened to divert the plane to Karachi, likening the situation, sources said, to a "hijack".

In Sharjah, the cabin crew went to meet Captain Ranbir Arora and co-pilot Aditya Chopra for the pre-flight briefing. Both sides give different versions of what happened after this.

The cabin crew lobby said that after the initial tension on the ground in Sharjah, when the woman crew member went into the cockpit, one of the pilots held her hand and then pushed her out of the cockpit.

"She hit the cockpit door with such force that she started bleeding. When Amit Khanna, the purser, saw her in this condition, he went to the cockpit to ask what was happening. At this point, the pilots got abusive and started a fight with him," said a representative of the IA cabin crew, who added that the actual fight took place on the Lucknow-Delhi segment.

Pilot sources claimed that despite his CPL, Khanna could not get a pilot's job due to the downturn.

"The airhostess had announced flying time from Sharjah to Lucknow as per the schedule, and not the actual one that the commander gives. After taking off, the pilot scolded the airhostess and then called Amit to the cockpit," said a source.

Khanna, the source added, entered the cockpit angrily and that's when the fight started. "He became abusive, and tempers ran high in the cockpit. Given the highly unsafe situation there, the commander said he would divert to Karachi, to which Amit retorted, 'Jahan le jaana hai, le jaao, is aircraft ko main bhi uda loonga (take it wherever you want to, I can also fly)'," a pilot representative said, adding that the fight occurred over Pakistan, while the plan was flying from Sharjah to Lucknow. The woman crew member, the source explained, got bruised when she entered the cockpit in the melee.

The cockpit was cleared, with pilots pushing out Amit and then locking the door. After that, the plane landed in Lucknow at around 4.30 am. "Amit then apologized to the pilots, and they took off for Delhi so that the flight wasn't delayed. He later got the woman crew member to level charges of molestation to avoid action for making a hostile entry into the cockpit," said a source speaking on behalf of the pilots.

The police are investigating the woman's complaint and have registered a case against the pilot and co-pilot. "There are several eyewitnesses and we are recording their statements," said joint CP (operations) Satyendra Garg. The police had the victim examined at Safdarjung Hospital, where her bruises were confirmed. A case was registered, among others, under Section 354 for outraging the modesty of a woman.

The DGCA is fuming at the gross violation of safety norms on IC 884. "The airline didn't even inform us of this incident in time. We're going to summon the crew members on Monday. This incident is shocking and we may need to take exemplary action," said a senior official.

[smiling monkey]

A great plot for a bollywood movie. If only it wasn't so real!

[cactusbusdrvr]

Nice....It will be interesting to see how the witnesses testify. Sounds like the pilots were just getting the purser out of the flightdeck but why bother to have him come up in the first place.

Would have been interesting if there had been an expat flightcrew.

[weido_salt]

If it was an expat pilot involved he/she would have been fired in an instant without recourse. Rightly so too.

If it is Indian flight crew, well what can be done? They will all go out on strike, if AI dared disapline them.

[ManaAdaSystem]

This particular situation would not have happened with an expat crew.
I've flown with Indians, both flight deck and cabin crew. I've found them to be some of the best in the industry, but also some of the worst.
Indians tend to be very aggressive in general, the ones from Delhi in particular. Put the right mix in an aircraft and this is the result.

I nearly had a riot on board my Delhi flight, simply because Delhi was closed (fog) and we had to divert. I almost got attacked by some of the pax after landing in BOM.

It's not only in India, but more likely to happen there than anywhere else, IMHO.

Oh and, there is China as well...

[GlueBall]

Where I work, cabin crew entry is controlled; which is to say that a pilot must electronically unlock the door or electronically deny entry after the correct entry code was pushed. Neither the purser nor any cabin crew could just barge into the cockpit without invitation. :ooh:

[Teg Bahadur]

The guys at the pointy end must have learned from the malaysian indian pariah aka lato g-stringh! Ruckus ala Dickens bar. What a disgrace!

[ManaAdaSystem]

Where I work, we don't deny our cabin crew entry into the cockpit.

[Cirrus_Clouds]

Totally unprofessional, I'm shocked reading this. Do these crews know of something called stress management and resolution conflict? ...obviously not.

People like this quite simply don't deserve to be crew, when endangering passengers and the a/c.

Lets hope they get what they deserve! :=

[Speed Freak]

cabin crew entry is controlled. the article says the airhostess was pushed against the door when the purser barged into the cockpit. now suppose cabin crew entry is controlled and she had gone in for a valid reason , there has to be a point where she would have had to come out. that is the point where the purser would have barged into the cockpit. and lets assume the airhostess is opening the door to come out and at that point the purser tries to barge into the cockpit (akin a hijacker) and he hit the door on the cabin crew:E


anyway times of india is known for spicing up stories....so lets take all of this with a pinch of salt...the real story may only be 20% of what is reported. but yes delhi people are pretty aggressive. the right mix and even when they talk it APPEARS as if they are fighting.

[TiiberiusKirk]

It's beginning to sound as if air safety will require the eliminating the cockpit-cabin door, fitting toilet, coffee machine and microwave in the cockpit and pilots boarding via an external door. Oh, and two-way a letter-box for necessary documentation to be passed from cockpit to cabin and vs.

[raffele]

Here's the BBC's take on it:

BBC NEWS | South Asia | India pilots in mid-air 'scuffle' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/8289313.stm)

[Axerock]

Assuming the altercation started in the cockpit - would the CVR identify the truth.

[747passion]

Too late for the CVR. They flew a good deal before they land.

[TooL8]

If nothing happens by way of discipline from AI/Indian Ministry of Civil Aviation side, is it possible for EASA or an EU National Authority to place a ban on an individual(s) from commanding an acft in EU airspace? I know we've had lots of age related issues in this area (overfly and all that), but nothing to my mind relating to conduct of individuals.

Any aviation lawyers care to comment?

[Rainboe]

Tired crews maybe. Situations developing in the cabin. Intercrew conflict.....all builds up. Can people start to see why I was fairly positive in the United MIA recent en-route landing about the benefits of ending such a situation by landing early? I said it in that thread and here too- at 500mph, you must defuse such conflict. You cannot afford to have ongoing situations in the air, or seriously upsetting and playing on the pilot's mind. You never know when he may be called upon to deliver 110% to save all onboard, and at a moments notice. If that sounds melodramatic (as some implied), who would have thought a pilot taking an A320 into the air from laGuardia would so dramatically be required to dredge every bit of his piloting experience, and so overwhelmingly rapidly? These situations MUST not be allowed to develop in the air. Unfortunately they do, and sometimes it seems with the connivance of the airline, or just blank total indifference to such atmospheres. BA is no stranger to this!

[Devils Advocate]

Maybe it went something like this?

The High & The Mighty - clip 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnrTq9Y-uJY)

or perhaps it was all more like this?

The High & The Mighty - clip 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHVOAl3jSRc)

[ArthurBorges]

These situations MUST not be allowed to develop in the air.

According to Le Canard Enchaîné, France's leading political gossip rag, the first Concorde flight from CDG to the USA (IAD) had just such a situation.

Tension started when the captain refused to carry the co-pilot's wife, none other than his own ex-wife. The co-pilot then bought a full-fare ticket for her and she got to board. It then seems the cockpit duo refused to address each other except through the flight engineer, who had to repeat everything barked at him by the one to the other.

This is with a planeful of folks like the AF chair, transport minister and other VIPs onboard.

Fortunately, there were no emergencies of any kind along the way.

People are people.

[Rainboe]

That sounds more like a Monty Python comedy sketch! The one I feel sorry for there is the poor chap in the middle, the flight engineer. I bet he needed headache pills afterwards. Comedy aside, a very dangerous situation to be in.

[HAWK21M]

Filter the Media article.....As someone mentioned,the truth would be probably 80% less dramatic.
SSCVR records last 2hrs of the Conversation in the Flight eck.
The Regulatory Authority & AI are both conducting Investigations.
regds
MEL.

[ArthurBorges]

The one I feel sorry for there is the poor chap in the middle, the flight engineer. I bet he needed headache pills afterwards. Me too. He had his own job to do too.

No empathy for the captain for an ungentlemanly sense of hospitality. Maybe it's just me, but I'm deeply relieved whenever an ex of mine has found a replacement.

Little empathy for the woman in the middle: discretion is the better part of valor and did she really need to thumb her nose at her ex right where a male can be really vulnerable (i.e. on the job), especially when it puts third parties at risk.

Little empathy for the co-pilot: when you're not top dog on the hill and push comes to shove, you kiss up.

As for AF, their response was bureaucratically correct but created a safety risk.

People are people.

[Wannabe Flyer]

AI is reporting that at no time was the cockpit left unmanned, PIC has come on record and admitted that the cockpit was left unmanned for 10 mins while the flight was over Pakistan.

Does anyone know if Karachi ATC tried contacting them for 10 mins? What would the ramifications been if they received no response from an Indian flag carrier overflying their territory. Chances are they would have had some trigger happy company up pretty soon next to them including from the Indian side who would have treated it as a Hijack if they crossed over with no com.

I think a more serious look into this should be taken beyond where the he said she said is going on. There is more to it than meets the eye. PIC should have landed at Jaipur and had the CVR info recorded if he so strongly felt that the FA where in correct. Co pilot bleeding, leavng cockpit unattended, hardly a minor incident that would allow any sane person not to terminate the flight. Not only did they carry on to Lucknow but then further onto Delhi.

Any information on the commander and captain? Ages hours on type etc. Might shed some light on their maturity and this constant battle of Indian vs expat crew.

[screwballburling]

The Captain, Ranbir Arora and the male purser have been suspended by AI. Not fired. The Captain will be back, rest assured.

[Pugilistic Animus]

not trying to be funny, but the inflated life vests aboard???
[from the movie clip]

[noelbaba]

Aircrew rage breaks out on Air India flight
Los Angeles Times
NEW DELHI — The sight of airline cabin crews trying to mollify enraged passengers has become all too common. But a recent Air India flight added a twist when crew members mid-flight started punching each other in front of startled passengers.

Accounts of what happened differ now that everyone's back on the ground. Exactly who started the brawl and why got a bit lost in the clouds, though one flight attendant has accused a crew member of trying to molest her.

What no one disputes is that with New Delhi-bound Flight IC-844 cruising at 30,000 feet over Pakistan at around 4 a.m. Saturday, the cockpit and cabin crews broke into fisticuffs. The ruckus spilled from the cockpit into the galley area in full view of the 106 passengers, prompting the pilot to threaten an emergency landing in Karachi, the commercial capital of India's longtime adversary.

The flight managed to stay on course from the United Arab Emirates to the Indian city of Lucknow and then Delhi.

The pilot and chief purser will probably stay on terra firma for awhile following their suspension Tuesday by Air India pending an investigation into the fight and allegations of sexual harassment.

“What a scandal, man,” said A.J.S. Walia, a former Indian vice air marshal, now head of Sikorsky Aircraft's Indian operation. “What an immature act on everyone's part.”

With regulators, analysts and the media fretting over the safety implications, the national-flag carrier quickly sought to reassure the public that the cockpit was never unmanned. At least one media report suggested, however, that both pilots were well out of their seats during the melee.

Police are probing alleged “assault or use of criminal force against a woman with intent to outrage her modesty.”

A spat started at Sharjah airport in the United Arab Emirates during a pre-flight check, according to local media, official statements and information leaked from an ongoing investigation.

Based on flight attendant Komal's version—the 24-year old only provided her first name—her take-off announcement angered flight commander Ranbeer Arora, who called her into the cockpit and, along with copilot Aditya Chopra, sharply criticized her, making her feel “uncomfortable as a woman.”

Komal said she left the Airbus A320 cockpit and explained to flight purser Amit Khanna what happened. The two were then called back into the cockpit, Komal told reporters, at which point the pilots became aggressive and pushed her out, bruising her and leaving the purser and pilots to go at it.

Another flight attendant, Chhavi Jaggarwal, said in a statement that Arora hit Komal and that the two pilots used abusive language and appeared livid that Komal hadn't greeted them respectfully.

“She was totally shaken up and was crying and she had bruises on her hand as if she was manhandled,” Jaggarwal said. “Even business-class passengers were standing and observing everything.”

In his version, the flight commander said he queried Komal about her tardiness in completing various procedures. A few minutes later, purser Khanna banged aggressively on the cockpit door, entered and used “un-parliamentary language.” When co-pilot Chopra rose to evict Khanna, Arora said, the co-pilot was manhandled by Khanna, leaving Chopra's lips bloody.

Whatever the details, the pilots would have been badly distracted, experts said. Furthermore, the incident took place at around dawn when the body's circadian rhythms tend to be at a low point.

“The commander should never have compromised safety,” said Sajed Mumtaz, a former Air India trainer and flight supervisor. “You wait and handle these problems on the ground.”

The incident reflects a long-standing divide between cockpit and flight crews. “Since time immemorial, pilots have always been high-handed,” said Bhavna Tiwani, a longtime flight attendant, now a teacher at the Frankfinn Air Hostess Training Academy in New Delhi.

That said, the captain is boss, she added. And even if a flight attendant feels sexually harassed, she can back away or file a complaint with the union.

“This whole incident was a bit weird,” Tiwani said. “I see things from the flight attendant's perspective, but it's essential to remain professional.”

Several aviation experts said they couldn't remember a similar case of aircrew rage. The closest may have been in October 2008 when the heir to French fashion house Hermes, Mathias Guerrand-Hermes, allegedly grabbed at an Air France pilot's crotch in a drunken mid-air attack.

Air India, a former monopoly with an aging fleet and poor on-time record, has struggled in recent years to compete with lower-cost private airlines.

Saturday's fight came a few days after the government stepped in to halt a four-day pilot strike, nixing the carrier's bid to cut the wages of many of its 32,000 workers—twice the staff needed, by some accounts — in an attempt to pare its $3 billion in accumulated losses.

“This airline is a disgrace, they've ground it into the ground,” said Madhu Kishwar, head of a woman's advocacy group, who just canceled her ticket to New York. “I think this airline should die, and I'm doing my small part to make it happen.”

Others predicted that public outrage would soon fade as it has before, providing little incentive for real reform. “It's our culture, we take life casually,” said Mumtaz.

State-owned Air India, which some critics have dubbed a white elephant, has had several mishaps over the years. India badly needs an independent regulator and safety board, said safety expert Mohan Ranganathan, a former Air India pilot.

In the mid-1980s, a disgruntled two-member flight crew that weren't talking failed to deploy their aircraft's landing gear on arrival in Calcutta. No one was killed. Their licenses were revoked, Ranganathan said, but political connections and threats of a lawsuit saw them reinstated.

In June 2008, Air India flight IC 162 from Dubai overshot the Mumbai airport by 45 miles after its pilots fell asleep. The “nap in the sky” ended when air traffic controllers jolted them awake by causing a loud buzzer to go off in the cockpit.

Earlier this year, an Air India flight narrowly missed colliding with the president's helicopter at the Mumbai airport.

“They've been very lucky not to have a fatal incident since 2000” when a pilot approaching the Patna airport lost control and crashed, killing 55 onboard and five on the ground, Ranganathan said. “This gives them a false sense of security. I think they almost need another fatal crash to wake up.”

[old-timer]

This would be unheard of a few years back, the flying worlds finally gone crazy
(well ok, its gone pretty crazy already but this takes the biscuit & the cookie jar as well !) :sad::(

[sexdriven]

This incident almost equates to mutiny on behalf of the cabin crew,irrespective of what transpired on the flight deck before the incident. If the flight attendant felt aggrieved by the pilots actions, she and the purser should have reported the incident to the company and authorities after the flight. Barging into the flight deck and confronting the pilots caused endangerment of the aircraft.

It is about time that the relative authorities put an end to this sort of behaviour. If the authorities to do not act by reprimanding the cabin crew on this flight, than a very dangerous precedent would be set.

Remember guys, I am not saying that the pilots were blameless. All that I am saying is that the cabin crew actions were life threatening to the occupants of the aircraft.

[screwballburling]

IIRC, the two cabin attendants concerned were "sommons" to the flight deck by none other than the F/O.

[Left Wing]

The incident reflects a long-standing divide between cockpit and flight crews. “Since time immemorial, pilots have always been high-handed,” said Bhavna Tiwani, a longtime flight attendant, now a teacher at the Frankfinn Air Hostess Training Academy in New Delhi.

this is a critical factor in AI / IC ... there is no CRM...pilots view cabin crew as cheap labor and have no respect for them.... cabin crew treat pilots as evil monsters with fat pay cheques.... this is "approved" top down... :ugh::=..this incident waiting to happen for a long time..

[BOAC]

pilots view cabin crew as cheap labor and have no respect for them.... cabin crew treat pilots as evil monsters with fat pay cheques.... this is "approved" top down - Hmm! That rings a few bells.

[swish266]

The caste system was supposedly abolished in India about 50 years ago...
Still there are about 400 registered caste based murders (National Geographic editor's article sometime in 2007) every year. The number of unregistered ones is times higher.
This is your biggest democracy in the World!
No wonder this "crewrage" incident(to coin a new word) happened on an IA flight. Not on LH, AF, AA etc... or EK, where there are plenty of Indian CC/pilots. But it's not your biggest democracy.
The biz class pax should have been scared, not "bewildered" as reported!
:mad:

[Rotomoulder]

In view of an American Airlines ? pilot dumping their equivalent of a CSD for pushing a paper under a cockpit door what is to be done with both pilots and 2 cabin crew coming to blows during cruise and in full view of their pax?
At least the Auto Pilot did not join in the affray
IC 884 Sharjah Delhi refers
Rotomoulder
Doha

[capt.cynical]

The Indian "CAST" system will win this fight. :mad::ugh::yuk:

[ArthurBorges]

The caste system was supposedly abolished in India about 50 years ago...The caste system is complex. Traditionally it is based on inherited profession, e.g. brahmin are priests and kshatriya are warriors, but you lose your caste membership as soon as you take up another job.

Moreover, there are professions that fall outside the caste system and continue to erode it as their numbers multiply, e.g. IT trades.

Note too that there is a lead time between enactment of a new law and effective social change. If you think slavery was abolished in the USA 150 years ago, google around a bit about "sharecropping today" and aliens locked down into sex slavery to pay off the traffickers that promised them a bright new future -- it's the "indentured servants" of the 1700s all over again. "Indentured servant" translated as "white slave".

On democracy, India has over 900 political parties, although not all are recognized by the Electoral Commission. That 450 times better than just two.

If you want to factor in India's 1,000 million inhabitants against the 300 million of the USA, that's still 150 times more representative of public opinion.

Happy Skies!

[SmoothCriminal]

Am surprised all those pax who viewed the kung-fu first hand didn't make a huge noise and abandon ship when the aircraft landed the first time and put a stop to this mess, which allowed this recipe for disaster to get back in the air again ! Perhaps, new uninformed pax ?

Also am surprised no pax has filed a lawsuit against the airline yet ! for endangering their life, twice !! oops, did I just give someone the idea :}

Smoothie....:ok:

[Basil]

Wouldn't be the first time.
Here's an event related by Captain Arthur Whitlock in his book: 'Behind the Cockpit Door' Pub. 1991 ISBN 0-86303-565-5

In this case, the Sikh radio operator is trying to separate two western captains who have had a little 'misunderstanding' in a Dak:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/ArthurWhitlock0001.jpg


He was also something of a dab hand at illustrating comely ladies:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Capn_Basil/ArthurWhitlock0002.jpg

Arthur was a great raconteur, artist and captain with whom to fly; regrettably no longer with us.

[leftseatview]

Basil,
any idea where one can buy a copy of "behind the cockpit door"?
sounds like a great read(like "Faulty Towers" perhaps!)

[lomapaseo]

If you were a passenger on this flight, what would you do?
1. Sit back and enjoy the show?
2. Try to ignore the melee?
3. Point out that the purser and fa are endangering the flight, suggest that they move towards the rear of the plane to carry out their duties?
Then sort it out on the ground?
4. Flat pack the cabin crew?

A diabolically handled situation.

In true jet Blast fashion I would point out that the cockpit crew was endangering the flight and suggest they should move forward into the cockpit behind a locked door and carry out their duties then sort it out on the ground

[vikrant soni]

Was the airplane even supposed to be at FL300 while heading eastbound from Sharjah to New Delhi.

[captjns]

Was the airplane even supposed to be at FL300 while heading eastbound from Sharjah to New Delhi.

Can you say "Maintain FL300 Non Standard?"

[fendant]

Everybody on Flyertalk is scared that AI wants to join Star Alliance, this incident contributes to my scepticism.
Remember the cockpit fight on Turkish a while ago?