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airmiles
2nd Oct 2009, 12:22
Hello All,

I am thinking of doing an FI course but am wondering are there many or any FI jobs out there right now in this current situation? A few of my pilot friends seem to think that now is not the best time to find an FI job. The course is beneficial in that I keep flying and improve my skills, but 7000 for the course and then not being able to find work is not so great. So I ask the PPruners your advice..

Rgds,
Airmiles

S-Works
2nd Oct 2009, 12:54
No work in a nutshell. Save your 7k and go flying with it.

magicmick
2nd Oct 2009, 13:23
Try this:

BECOME A FLYING INSTRUCTOR with job at the end in United Arab Emirates from Touch Aviation (http://www.touch-aviation.com/details.asp?vacId=392&vt=BECOME%20A%20FLYING%20INSTRUCTOR%20with%20job%20at%20the% 20end)

It seems that the school pay to convert your licence, fund your FI training and bond you to work as an instructor for 2 years after qualification.

During training they provide you with a place to live and 4000AED per month (680) and after qualification you sort out your own digs and the salary is 10000AED per month (1703).

If I was a single man without family commitments I would be off in a shot but it may well be ok for you.

Realistically there are little/ no FI jobs in the UK, what jobs there are have been oversubscribed with experienced applicants.

There are also UAE FI jobs on touch-aviation for qualified FIs as well.

Hope this helps

Cheers

MM

portsharbourflyer
2nd Oct 2009, 14:19
Revalidated my FI rating this summer after getting laid off from my turboprop job last year. I have been searching for a part time instructors job for four months now and not had any positive responses so far, and I have close to 500 hours instructional time.

Floppy Link
2nd Oct 2009, 16:23
...a place close to us pays 8 an hour with no retainer. Hardly worth it if you need to eat...

tropicalfridge
2nd Oct 2009, 21:47
Its been reported in this forum for quite a while now, and its getting worse by the minuite as people continue to come off instructor courses then find there are no jobs. Best not do it for now, its not the great hour builder while you wait for that airline job it used to be.

S-Works
3rd Oct 2009, 07:13
I also think it is a bit immoral of the Instructor training schools to keep taking candidates. Rubbing there hands with glee saying they have not seen a downturn in business but turning out an new FI who has zero chance of getting the investment back.

7k will be you a lot of hour building time either in rentals or as a share in something like an LAA type. You can then go and fly some interesting trips which will look much better on the CV than 500hrs in a 152 doing Ex1-18.

EK4457
3rd Oct 2009, 08:09
What's your problem with EX19?

;)

EK

S-Works
3rd Oct 2009, 09:19
What's your problem with EX19?

EK

Did not want to get side tracked into removal of instrument restrictions and then an IMC debate!!

flapsin
3rd Oct 2009, 10:36
And I thought Ex19 basic instrument flight formed part of the JAR PPL syllabus, and can be taught by any FI with or without Applied Instrument Restriction.
Regarding the topic, I find it reprehensible that in today's market there are still FIs and FEs offering their services for nothing, how about it Bose?

ifitaintboeing
3rd Oct 2009, 11:15
And I thought Ex19 basic instrument flight formed part of the JAR PPL syllabus, and can be taught by any FI with or without Applied Instrument Restriction.

Exercise 19 is the entire Instrument Flying syllabus, including that which is required for removal of the 'No Applied Instrument Flying'. There are elements of exercise 19 which are required by the JAR-FCL and NPPL syllabus, and are permitted to be taught by an instructor without the restriction removed.

It is surely bose-x's choice as to what he charges for his services?

flapsin
3rd Oct 2009, 13:06
Yes, that's why I included the word 'basic' in my post.
And no Bose can charge or not as he sees fit, but I see no problem with schools offering FI courses right now, whether there is work available or not. Nobody HAS to enroll

GearDownFlaps
3rd Oct 2009, 15:37
What is even more annoying is pilots with jobs , and FI ratings coming in asking for work to supplement their income and taking work away from those that are just on an Fi's wage , not the best .
My course mate from May still hasnt got an FI job , we get many enquiries a week , the situation is not good

Cows getting bigger
3rd Oct 2009, 19:37
There has always been a bit of a dilemma here. In the good times many FIs were gaining experience (hours?) whilst their CVs floated around the system. Many of these FIs never came back once they had secured a RHS. Those that did were generally the 'right stuff' for instructing; they still had a genuine interest in instructing, were enthusiastic, personably and the pay didn't actually matter.

In the darker times, people become more mercenary. There are more FIs kicking around who, frankly, are average instructors at best. They may have numerous ratings and a few thousand hours on airliners but their heart is not in instructing and their airline experience, however impressive, actually has limited (over-inflated?) relevance in a C152/172?PA28 VFR environment. From a CFI's perspective, he/she should be aiming at balancing experience against enthusiasm. Easily said, far more difficult to deliver.

airmiles
4th Oct 2009, 09:30
Thanks for all the responses.
For some of you that have wondered, I would like to instruct because I think I would be good at it. The fact that I would like to one day fly a jet is also true. However, I would like to do both but in this present time it is hard to find a job. My preferred job anyhow is small jets not airliners. Anyhow back to the instructing topic. I would like to instruct as I have said above. I am enthusiastic about it, well I was until some pilots starting telling me that there was not much point as the supply and demand for instructors is low right now. Of course to me it is important that I do get paid for this and that I get the 7000 back in instructing from the flights that I do.

EK4457
4th Oct 2009, 13:48
Bose-X

Of course Ex19 forms part of the PPL syllabus. As an instructor (even restricted) you are required to teach basic IF skills to the point where a candidate can execute a level turn through 180degs to escape cloud.

I also disagree about your hour building advice. 7k on hour building will get you approx;

a) 80 hours an a single
b) 30 hours on a twin

Either way, it will make sod all difference to a CV. 250 hours or 320 is the same thing at the minute. Useless.

Also, it's very rare to write on your CV what 'intersting trips' you did on each flight. You really are stuggling if have to write 'I once flew to spain' etc.

You say,

You can then go and fly some interesting trips which will look much better on the CV than 500hrs in a 152 doing Ex1-18

I don't see how a few dozen hours drilling holes in a 152 is better than a few HUNDRED hours teaching someone how to fly. Particularly if you WANT to be an FI.

Seriously, 7k on hour building is dead money. At least you get more than a few lines in your logbook if you get the FI.

I do suspect that you are far more experienced than I am, but just thought I'd give my tuppence!

EK

S-Works
4th Oct 2009, 19:33
EK, I was not looking for a fight with you. My response was made in good humour hence the exclamation marks at the end of it. I was merely saying that teaching the same excercises over and over again could be dull. I could easily of said Ex1-6 or 5-19..........

My friend got a job with Flybe as a FO on the Dash with 300hrs total time. They put him to the top of the pile because he been touring around Europe VFR/IFR and they thought that showed initiative and independence. A thousand hours in the RHS of 152 or a hundred or so touring the same 152 around Europe?

7k in the states will get you a couple of hundred hours and the opportunity to do some really interesting touring that can be talked about at interview.

As a company we do not take people on based on Instructional experience, we prefer people to have the experience I have commented on above.

Thats just my perspective.

flapsin, As IAB says, what I charge for my time is my prerogative, but rest assured I don't do everything for free, just sometimes it is good for the soul to give something back to aviation without expecting anything in return.......

I merely pointed out that I thought it a litle immoral for the Instructor training schools to keep taking money when they know there is no work. Me donating my time FOC once in awhile I am pretty sure might come at the other end of the scale from immoral?
:O:ok:

Flashheart II
5th Oct 2009, 10:53
A thousand hours in the RHS of 152 or a hundred or so touring the same 152 around Europe?

I don't think these are comparable at all. If you have a 1000 hours instructing you would most likely have seen and experienced a lot of different airfields and situations. If you are willing to put in the effort, you can also get some flying in Europe on school trips and get paid for it too! Not to mention removing night and applied instrument restrictions.

I remember after doing my FI course and having done a bit of instructing how I felt that I had only just began to learn to fly a plane properly. This might sound a little worrying coming from an instructor, but this is a feeling shared by many other experienced instructors about when they first started.

On the other hand I would advise being careful about doing an FI job before you have a good idea about what the job situation is. There are still a few FI jobs out there but not many and the pay at the moment is even worse than it was in the past!

EK4457
5th Oct 2009, 12:56
Bose X

Sorry if I came accross confrontational - I just re-read my post and can see where you are coming from. Wasn't intended!

Like I say, I believe you to be more experienced than me and was just interested to hear your comments.

Either way, getting an FO position with 300 hours is history these days. Along with a decent full time instructing job.

Happy flying.

EK