Netjets Europe Job Losses

[perryportugal]

It seems the axe has been felt in Lisbon with 80 plus being dismissed today. All office based and from all levels. It is believed the same is happening in London and Zurich.
It appears the new "boss" from the US was not impressed on a recent visit to Europe and it looks like this is the start of a massive clear out and major changes are afoot at NJE.

[south coast]

Any high level casualties?

[perryportugal]

Nothing confirmed but you would imagine the hierarchy has to share the blame. There is a feeling from the US that the management was very poor so it is unlikely they will get off scot free.

[PAPI 32]

My Aunts boyfriend works for Netjets. He's had to sign a 4 year contract where he spends 1 year on then 1 year off with a 40% cut in pay. :yuk:

[Nhecas]

I seams there wasn't any high level casualities for the time. Let us see if they could hold on with the amount of personnel cuts they have done. := Shameless

[Damianik]

I have a couple of people in mind that may need to go in order for me to feel motivated enought...

what do you think?

[Dan_Brown]

....with 80 plus being dismissed today. All office based...."

Goodness gracious me!!! EIGHTY??!!

How many office staff are needed? No wonder they are loosing money!! If we went back to the days of no computers, I wonder how many office staff would have been needed for an operation such as this? 800+?

[Taxi2parking]

Dan....clearly you have no idea of what running the NTA operation entails, this will make life very difficult for a lot of people. Might I also suggest that you stick to posting on subjects you know something about...

I was going to finish with a smilie but pprune doesn't seem to have the special one I wanted to use for DB

[south coast]

Just like the books his name sake writes, utter bollux!

[Dan_Brown]

Maybe you can start a thread and correct his name sake?

[lpokijuhyt]

It's OK, Dan.. I liked the DaVinci Code.

[motherpupp]

If Mr. Brown hasent made up his name I think he might know a thing or 2 about running flight departments.

I also completly agree with Mr. Brown, if Netjets got rid of all the unnesseccary "services" they provide their crews and instead impowered crews to decide for themselves they could get rid of a further 80 office staff. When a company has 600+ office staff for 160 airplanes there is something wrong. (these numbers are different now off course) A typical charter company will run their operation with about 1 office staff per airplane.

[Taxi2parking]

...well he might know something about small flight departments....but that is far from the point.

NetJets is a large airline which has a route structure which changes every few hours, it's got a technical department, safety department, flight data monitoring, a standards department and massive amounts of training to organize - all of which I would agree your average charter operator does not bother with. However, I would humbly suggest that say something like FDM for instance is an expensive but worthwhile undertaking in terms of making us safer as are all the other things in my view.

I have not even mentioning the support departments like finance, HR and IT which although never popular only a fool would deny they play a vital role - how many millions of VAT are finance claiming back each year to help the bottom line?

[Dan_Brown]

Taxi2parking

Even you would be aware, if you get rid of 80 office staff and the operation still functions, these people must have been dead wood, surplus to requirements, carried, or whatever.

Oh BTW please dont refer to me as "he", as I find it most condescending. I do have a handle and it is Dan, or Mr. Brown. Please use it, should you wish to refer to me in future.


south coast

You dont seem to be very impressed with his name sake's writings. Do you think his books should be banned?

[south coast]

Of course not banned, everyone has the right to say what they want.

If they were banned I wouldnt be able to say they were crap.

By the way, I never called for anyone to be banned or not have an opinion, I only ever gave my opinion on matters.

[Dan_Brown]

A good response and the one i wanted to read.

Thankyou.

[Taxi2parking]

Mr Brown

I was responding to another party speaking about a third person..you in this case. Using the word "he" is hardly rude or condescending. If the point you're making is about my assumption of your gender then I think that is forgiveable given your use of a male screen name. Now onto your point that the people who lost their jobs were obviously not needed as the operation manages to stumble on. Well firstly how can you say that after a couple of days? Secondly you obviously don't have any real insight into the operation....for instance less guys or girls in scheduling, because of cuts, will inevitably mean scheduling mistakes that lead to sell-off's which can often cost more than the annual pay of a scheduler... Now I'm not saying that the Lisbon Office, in common with many big companies, is a model of efficiency and good communications but I do not believe that it was over staffed to the extent that the management decided it was. Finally I regret causing offence by using the word "he" and I promise not to do it any more...provided you don't refer to my now unemployed friends and colleagues as "dead wood". Taxi2parking

[Hankers]

Bill Kelly. CEO of Netjets Europe to persue other interests! Effective 20 minutes ago!

[natops]

I dont have that info about Bill from official channels but I'm not really surprised, since I've got the feeling that the US is taking more leading roles in the European operation.

Anyway, I hope it's all for the good...

N.:ok:

[natops]

Just got the mesage, it's official. Bill's gone.

N.

[perryportugal]

Any news on who may be joining him. Understand the "big boss" from the US is back in Europe this week.

Surely a CEO will be replaced and if that is the case one would imagine his successor has already been decided. The position of CEO would hardly be surplus to requirements even in these strange times.

[Damianik]

Yes the new CEO is a guy from america,Eric Connor, he has been a CEO for various of the berkshire hathway companies in the past, None of these leaders has any experience in aviation, so they will just count the bins and cut a lot of jobs, like they use to do in USA.
that is for the best?
depends whose best...
D

[perryportugal]

Regardless of individuals if the company is to survive the best starting point is to identify the non cost effective areas. If any company has a projected income of x and costs of y and there is a big deficit between the x and y they should have no interest in carrying on the business. It is good to see that NJE are obviously trying to rectify this situation and whatever it takes in terms of cut backs, management changes etc should be welcome if it means that they will stay in business. I do believe the apparent drastic changes that are taking place are doing so because the people who make the decisions DO see a long term future for the business. They must also feel that not all the trouble can be blamed on the recession and that some fundamental operating policies are/were ill conceived. I certainly feel for all those who will suffer as a result of this process but I just hope the new blood is able to turn things round. Right now it is a damage limitation exercise for all concerned. I wish them all success and the very best of luck.

[Cyberdragon]

Well said perryportugal. It begs the question of how the company will be reshaped so that it meets the requirements of the new management who will be so very keen to realise a vision of a sustainable viable business. They'll be thinking radically for sure...

[pt-wind]

Santulli & Kelly both gone in just 60 days? You'd have got long odds on that mid-summer!

NJ europe has a lot to offer its north american parent: fantastic client portfolio which I guess splits four ways: - those that love NJ and could accept a 100% increase in charges without desertion; those that love NJ that might accept a reasonable increase and still stay with them; those (card) clients that buy on value that NJ can't make money from; and those that feel they've been stuffed (sharers with residuals well below their worst nightmare values)

I guess you can make a great bussiness out of the first 2 groups and let the rest go to stop them dragging you under. It's just got too big to keep afloat in such a bad economic climate.

[The Tailor]

This has been a long time coming. The lads club have had their fun at the expense of all those beneath them. Nice salary packages, bonuses, expense accounts, ridiculous 'art' collection in the London office............ Now it's all coming down around their ears because someone has at last taken a look across the pond and asked what exactly they have been doing in London and Lisbon. Didn't take long to find that the answer was very bl00dy little. No master plan? No five-year projection? F*ck's sake, they've not been looking past the end of the week. They've ridden along on the coat-tails of the economy with barely a look up ahead and no contingency plans whatsoever. It's criminal negligence.

pt-wind. If you're looking to place a bet have £10 each way on CR and NR for starters. As for Emperor BK, well at least it won't take him long to pack his suitcase what with having no clothes in the first place.

No tears shed for this incompetent bunch but what about those of us that are wearing the consequences of their actions?

[spannerbearer]

Well said The Tailor.

It seems through all the higher levels of managment the need to perform in a cost effective and dynamic manner is overcome by the need to line ones pockets for the least amount of work and have as many free meals as possible. Then the little people get to pick up the pieces, if lucky enough to keep there jobs.

Just look at the current mob running the country - it seems CEOs everywhere are following this example.:}

[Holyman]

Finally it is happening...the managers with great vision are about to depart. Haven't seen CR on the list but think he will follow suit.
Like another bunch of "high" management, prospects trained from within, because they are so good. This makes pr people the boss of stuff they really don't understand, and many others as well.
We need professionals with vision...

And then....let's see, how to do this the american way...

Getting too much competition in the lower end of the spectrum (read bravo, h400, maybe part excel) so get rid of thoose. Yep, including the pilots (200-250). Then cut all incentives, find cheaper hotels, airlines, less training, and anywere they can find the money (-20%), and then cut the salary by 10%......

We are heading for a tough ride, the last year was just a walk in the park.

[Cabral]

I believe MB has gone as well....
Not surprising. The problem is how deep you go in your clean up. All that are there contributed to some of this if they did not make a noise. Most who made a noise were either invited to go or left to seek better climes...

Some of them though really worked their socks off to try and keep a professional outfit going even if those above looked the other way.

Good luck to the remaining ones who always knew that this would come.

[ericthepilot]

Any one knows anyone who bought time share,
houses, hotels, cars, yachts etc. ?No? And if so, feel like a winner ?

What is wrong with that picture ? Employment in this sector "time shares" is dismal and in the US is based around call centers and cold calling customers.
Not a long term profitable solution. Employer and employee both

How many of you OWN your stuff, right, that is what sane people do, buy & own!
Only those who can write of their toys in good economic times will have the tax credit, but in hardship times, this doesn't exists.

It is not as great as it looks, otherwise many more would be into it ......

So should you be in it ??

[keepin it in trim]

A colleague recently told me that a wise man had said to him: "if it flies, f****, or floats - rent it", reasonably sound advice I would say!:)

[falconbis]

:bored: zzzzzzzz zzzzzz zzzzzz :ugh:

[Evanelpus]

Sorry Dan, I prefer to read any of Dale Brown's books.

[Anonymous.]

Just for the record Damianik & Natops, Eric Connor is English. get your facts right please before acccusing those in control of Americanising NJ Europe.

[Anonymous.]

Netjets is the best and all who understand aviation appreciate this.
The customer experience is one of the finest examples of customer service in the world.
Whilst the business has had its difficulties, as has the rest of the world in difficult times it is in a position with the backing of BH to bounce back and grow.
Only the weaker competition and those of faint heart differ.

[Damianik]

The guy is not american but he was in USA before here, there is where he was working and lived for a long time.
Sorry for the small mistake.
D

[Anonymous.]

Not quite right as I understand it.
Might have spent a lot of time helping businesses outside of the UK but always lived in Uk
Perhaps that experience could be good for Netjets
Time will tell

[south coast]

Anonymous, are you Smeagal under a new name...?

I mean with your passionate posts, it must be the return of the Smeagal!

[doubleu-anker]

Anonymous.

Doesn't pay to be the "best" then bragg about it.

Qantas used to crow they were the "best" and never had a hull lose. 3 weeks after the last boast they did in fact have a hull lose.

Sounds like military brain washing to me. Best take off the rose tinted glasses as you are only "timeshare" after all. :}

[Rusty Trombone]

NJE management being driven from the top are making every effort to save costs. I can think of some examples in higher management whom should step down from their positions to save the company.
NJE is not the best in the industry but it provides a safe solid corporate model of which all of us in corporate have gained, better FBO service centers etc. No one knew this economic downturn would be so bad.
The company is restructuring to pre-2005 levels.

I think less bad taste, people need to do their Jobs to the very best etc of which many of us do.
Dead Wood is not the term we should use towards the 80 whom lost their jobs many portuguese are hard working and unfortunately do not earn big money. Its time to to start and look at the senior positions? how many managers with the corporate benefits do we need? re allocate the sales team to getting the company back on track.
Sell the Aircraft not being used (if they Can) the 3 biggest areas of costs for any operation is
FUEL/SALARY/MAINTENANCE

May be the return of the Darth vador would help he was good at firing people, every one lived in fear but he usually was 100% correct. Bring him out of retirement from SA

[deskjockey101]

Wow, I never thought i'd here the day that anyone (who knew anything about NJ) would ever be calling for the return of Dark Master .....

from Stiffler to the Dark Master.............it's almost the next Star Wars!!

Will MB appear with his light sabre all the way from another galaxy (well India anyway!!!) to fight the Dark side and win the day.......

Roll on the next chapter..

DJ

[x933]

Netjets is the best and all who understand aviation appreciate this.

Bollocks.

If it's as good as is being made out then why is the retention so low? I seem to remember a figure not long ago that basically ammouted to approximately 3 new block hour clients over the year. I know a *lot* more than that have left and joined other programs.

[EatMyShorts!]

Come on guys, don't jump for this kind of trash ("Netjets is the best"). I do work there and I find Netjets very good! But we all know that there's a) no perfect company and b) you should not brag with your employer. I am happy where I am, although there are many things that need improvement. VistaJet is having lots of organizational trouble as well and I am sure they are not alone. We all have problems.

[austrian71]

Personally I didnt have the honour to know DM, but what I understand from my previous poster is, that there are a lot of savings possibel within the higher senior employees and managers. I agree with this, but dont forget we have a new top management now, they are not responsibel for the previous "attachments". So far so good, we didnt fire anybody, BUT: Previous management decided to create a "two class" environment, on the one side the around 400 jobsharers who have to secure their job and went "voluntary" and the around 500 "more senior" , who are the lucky one. Its not a fair solution in my opinion, everybody should be part of such a program, a so called "social plan" was never discussed. Guess what is next problem: 400 Jobsharers have to be retrained when coming back on line and have to be implemented as full salary employees in 2013/14, good luck to all of them !

[deskjockey101]

Agreed....although i think the difference between NJ and anyone else is that the previous management did "give it large" about how great they were and how **** they thought everyone else was!!!! against a backdrop of the fact that NJ have never made a compound profit (if you do some rudimentary maths then they are about minus 200-300m USD in Europe alone over 13 yrs) there are plenty of long standing, not very sexy (sorry Phil!!) companies who turn a profit year after year, which NJ rubbished!!!

Things have of course changed with WK, MB, GW, Stiffler-all out, so maybe the next lot will be a bit humbler and accept the fact they may not be untouchable anymore!!!!!

rightly or wrongly the feeling of "oh, how the mighty have fallen" is prevalent, and i think they (small group of senior execs-not the whole team) brought it on themsleves to a certain extent.

Before you ask, i am ex NJ, and really enjoyed the company and still have some very good friends there....

DJ

[Rusty Trombone]

Net Jets is the best? this statement is being used I am afraid its probably not the best text to use.
NJ offers a safe independent method of corporate travel and suits many. Its not VVIP and it will never offer the ultimate method of travel its mid to high and lets not forget that.
The mangers that remain in place whom have been there more than 5 years at at the senior levels probably need pushing in the right direction.
Crews can offer ways to save money etc. For all of us EX NJ on furlough or other lets hope things improve until then need to keep heads down.

Maybe some of these mangers should go on the program 12 months off on program recharge their ideas and BB.

[south coast]

I would have to agree with the jockey.

NJ is a good place to work, unless on 60%, which could be countered with, 'at least there were no forced redundancies'.

NJ is by no means perfect, but it is by no means a terrible employer either, like with all things in life, it has its good points and its bad points.

Could those who think so low of NJ provide the names of other employers out there who offer the same package or better, just so we can compare, it is far too easy to just moan without providing facts of other better employers.

Big mistakes were made, I don't think anyone would deny that, but we do have new management, so I am open minded about the future.

[Rusty Trombone]

The 60% program is working for many and me so its good I look forward to the future it holds.
May be the new management will shake the monkeys from the trees so im hopeful too.
DM regime was awful at times but got things done maybe the new new management will actually place the correct people in the right positions.

As I drive by the Lisboa office on the A5 I often wonder where all the money has gone etc? is it the shiny new lease vehicles for all the mangers or the private educations for all the kids?
Its about time we put some portuguese mangers in place and slash costs. Do we need all these EXPATS in the office?

I am on the 60% program and very happy to return etc, I was on the program when 150 flights per day was the norm in the peak months and now they are struggling to attain 50-80 movements.

its all too easy to criticize etc but in this economy its good what they have done however much we dont like it.

[2Circle]

"...Its about time we put some portuguese mangers in place and slash costs..."

Oh no! That is a contradiction!!! ;) Portuguese and save money?? That will work... :-))

[Rusty Trombone]

OK lets put in to prospective without a ongoing discussion.

Remove the perks of EXPAT contracts and have local contracts this would save on average
22,000 Fleet car lease including fuel.
Children private education up to 3 children at up to 15000 each 45,000.00
Tax returns and other perks 2000.00

I wonder if warren is aware of such details at BH.

EXPAT contracts are designed for a period of 2-3 years but surely these people whom have moved to Lisboa have settled in nicely adopted to the lifestyle etc.

so with average costs of 60K per year for each manager in benefits and a nice new shiny type rating when the exit door is opened as now they had enough of them in the office NJE has indeed wasted millions in staff changes in the last few years.

The Average life span of a EXPAT fleet manger
Flight ops-2.5
Flight director-2.0
MX-2.0

Its a tough ordeal in the office, strapped to the BB and basically running a kindergarden at times.

Maybe CR should go and be father christmas.

There still is deep problems in the monkey tree at HQ but they are trying