Flying or sailing....????

[fisbangwollop]

In a bit of a quandry at the moment :uhoh:...20 years ago I spent every spare moment of my life flying my Pilatus B4 glider, in that time I accured a few hundred hours...then I sold up and bought a yacht, for the last 15 years I have had great fun with her and seen many nice places....now approaching 55 :( and having worked in ATC all of my life ( If you talk to Scottish Info 119.875 you will know who I am ) I am getting the notion to fly again and go have some fun!!:).....thinking of taking my NPPL then maybe trading the yacht for a jabiru/Tecnam/Eurostar type aircraft. Working at "Scottish info" I have met and on a daily basis speak to some great people....I have reached a stage in my life now I would like to be in the air talking to ATC rather than the other way around..........your views would be appreciated....:cool::cool:

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Do it man;

I fly for a living and still fly in my spare time, I also sail. You will always find it easier to get time to fly rather than to sail.

You will be amazed when you hear your colleagues being incredibly patient and be able to take the p*** unmercifully when you get back to work.

Don't think I could ever have parted from a Pilatus B4 though.

[Pace]

Fisbangwollop

Go for it life is full of near misses unlike flying :) I nearly did this, nearly did that, maybe next year after the wife get her new suite and before you know it your sitting in front of the box with a blanket over your knees going Ga Ga :E

Anyway isnt there a nice aircraft sitting up a tree round there somewhere? a bit of sticking plaster and your away.

Pace

[fisbangwollop]

Pace..Anyway isnt there a nice aircraft sitting up a tree round there somewhere? a bit of sticking plaster and your away.


:):):):) Think it would need a roll or two of gaffer tape!!...that said I have a roll or two spare as someone recently told me they would take me for a flight provided I put the gaffer tape around my mouth!! :confused: That said still waiting for that flight!!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Fuji Abound]

We must have spoken on my trips to Dundee.

I also do both but fly much more these days.

I also agree - the advantage with flying is you can always find time for a flight and all in all the time to ready the craft and pack it up is usually significantly less. Inevitably if you derive pleasure from going places flying makes a great deal more sense.

Sailing across the English Channel for me almost always takes at least a day and sometimes a little longer. In practical terms a trip almost any where is a weekend affair. On the other hand it is 30 minutes at 170 knots in the aircraft.

If you are inclined to be lazy (like me) access to the aircraft / boat is important. If you must move three other aircraft to "get" at yours and it takes 45 minutes I bet after not very long you will find excuses for not flying.

I will go back to sailing when I do a round the world cruise in an IP with 50 feet on the waterline but sadly that may be a few years away. That is something you can only do in a yacht unless you are in a very different aviation league from me.

[Lightning6]

I'm not into sailing, but am I right in saying that you need no qualifications to sail, but you have to work your butt off to qualify to fly, just curious.

[fisbangwollop]

I'm not into sailing, but am I right in saying that you need no qualifications to sail, but you have to work your butt off to qualify to fly, just curious.

Correct...its about the only pastime you can go out..spend a million squid on a nice shiny Gin Palace and head off over the horizon....that said over the years I have taken various certificates and now hold a Commercial Yachtmaster rating that allows me to take fare paying passengers to sea! :cool:

[Pace]

I will go back to sailing when I do a round the world cruise in an IP with 50 feet on the waterline but sadly that may be a few years away.

My secret hankering is to follow my other Passion Scuba Diving and Photography buy myself a replica of a sailing Pirate ship I saw chugging around madeira :E and then take off around the world filming below the waves.

Failing that I am off to Scotland with a boot full of strong sticking tape as that would do for my round the world ambitions:} dont know where the scuba cylinders would go?

Pace

[Lightning6]

fisbangwollop...Nice to hear of someone taking to the seas with training, but should it not be compulsory? It not being so costs the RNLI a fortune in rescuing incompetent sailors.

[fisbangwollop]

It not being so costs the RNLI a fortune in rescuing incompetent sailors.

I know that as I spent 15 years as 2nd in command on the lifeboat at Troon!!!:cool::cool:

[davydine]

You have a difficult dilemma! I too used to fly gliders, in fact my last solo was in a Pilatus B4 at the Essex and Suffolk Gliding Club in about 1995. About that time I met my wife who introduced me to sailing. The gliding went by the wayside. We sailed with her parents and then bought a boat of our own. We are very lucky and sail in an area where we can sail for 16 hours and be in Holland or for an hour or so and be in a beautiful unspoilt anchorage with a glass of wine in hand.

I wouldn't agree that it is easier to find time to fly than it is to sail. Many is the time we have taken the boat out for half an hour or so just for the pleasure of it and without going anywhere (except there and back!) But you own a boat so you probably know that...

We have just sold our boat. A growing family meant we didn't use the boat so could not justify the expense... and what an expense. It is only now that the bills have stopped coming in that I realised just how much we were spending. A years mooring / insurance / running costs would easily pay for me to do my NPPL, or charter a yacht in the Med for a couple of weeks.

So would I go back to flying instead? Well, yes and no. I really miss the flying and would love to get back in to it, but gliding takes up so much time away from my familly that there is no point going down that route until our children are old enough to come to the airfield and enjoy it, safely. So what about power? More tempting, but i am not sure that I would want to own my own aircraft and have all of the expense of keeping it in the air, so, for me perhaps a flying club and hire by the hour....... although I did see a really cheap motor falke for sale the other day.....!

David

[Lister Noble]

re sailing qualifications,my wife and I have yachtmaster offshore and have sailed around a lot of closer northern Europe.
The French do insist on qualifications for their own sailors with limits on distance from shore according to level of qualification.
Don't know about other counties though.
Agree that sailing takes all day/weekend etc.
Flying takes me a morning all in for a couple of hours flight.
Still love boats and sailing and have been thinking of getting something small for next year.
Lister:)

[Lightning6]

fisbangwollop...Good for you mate :ok:, I shall keep up my contributions, I once asked an RNLI guy why they don't get any funding from the government, he said we don't want the government to have any control on our commitment to save lives. If the government want to do something useful, they should make a certain amount of training compulsory.

[fisbangwollop]

If the government want to do something useful, they should make a certain amount of training compulsory.

No I am not really with that.....its about the only last place we still have a bit of freedom to do what we like....very rarely did I have anyone suffer to bad from incompetance......the worst thing for me was bringing back the body of an 8 year old after she had been blown out to sea on a lilo :{...now that does hurt and how do you legislate against inflateable toys....in my mind they should be banned for ever!!! :(:(

[znww5]

fisbang - with all that gliding behind you, you could consider a motor glider. Although a bit of a niche market, the more recent motorgliders are very pleasant to fly, have a reasonable cruise speed and look rather elegant. Not sure how feasible that would be regarding availability in your neck of the woods, but just a thought.

I think you'll find the exams a doddle and the bit feared by most - the RT - may not present you with many problems :)

Good luck, have fun and welcome back!

[davydine]

fisbangwollop...Nice to hear of someone taking to the seas with training, but should it not be compulsory? It not being so costs the RNLI a fortune in rescuing incompetent sailors


I know this is a little of topic but I don't think the RNLI or the RYA have ever called for compulsory training. The number of RNLI call outs to leisure boaters (4,475 for all types of pleasure boat, from airbed to superyacht, in 2008) compared to the number of people using the sea for leisure is, i think, pretty small. There could be a very strong cases for education rather than regulation.

Interestingly there were 21 RNLI call outs to aircraft in 2008... there back on topic!

David

[englishal]

I used to share a yacht with my brother in Weymouth- Nicholson 35. It was great fun too, except for the British weather. We alway had big plans to sail it across the atlantic to St Lucia - my brother did eventually but there were also years when the weather was so sh*te that I only sailed it for 3 hours in a whole season. He's the captain of an offshore diving vessel so I used to mainly sail with him (as he knew what he was doing!) though I did do the Yachtmaster theoretical stuff. Then he had kids, and I got into flying so we sold her.

I'd vote for flying, and then charting in the sun if you get the sailing urge!

[worrab]

It seems that there are a lot of yachts and a lot of owners. Quite often, the owner would like to be reunited with his/her yacht in a distant part of the world - and is prepared to pay for the privilege. How about using your commercial ticket to ferry other people's yachts around?

Get a PPL(A) instead of a NPPL and you could fly yourself back home from wherever you ended the yacht trip. Of course it might mean considerable time on the water and in the air - and that might make home-life difficult. And we'd lose your dulcet tones from Scottish Info.

[fisbangwollop]

And we'd lose your dulcet tones from Scottish Info.....:cool::cool:Ah thats nice, good to be appreciated at times..thanks..:ok:

[cats_five]

It's true you don't need qualifications to sail your own boat, but as soon as you try hiring one (even a dinghy) they want to see the bits of paper, at least they do in the UK. Not sure about places like Greece. You can take a flotilla holiday there with no-one on the boat having any previous experience at all, but the lead boat shepards such crews very carefully whilst letting the more experienced crews have a bit of fun - at least that's what Sailing Holidays did.

Another place you can go with no qualifications is on our hills & mountains and plenty of people get in trouble there though stupidy and/or ignorance. But again, would you want it any other way? Do you want some jobs-worth checking your paperwork before you can get past the gatehouse and onto the fells? The Mountain Rescue teams certainly don't - and like the RNLI they receive no government funding. The helicopter crews seem to regard it as training and AFAIK all their services are still FOC both on land and at sea.

[Bigglesthefrog]

It is interesting to note just how many aviation minded people are interested in marine activities too. It includes me as well and I have found the perfect way of doing it.
Fisbang... May I suggest that you go for your PPL instead of the NPPL. OK it's going to cost a bit more, but if you've sold your boat you'll have a few bob hanging around:D
Then look around for a share in an aeroplane you like and fly that around as much as you want. Then go off and hire a yacht by way of Flotilla or Bare boat. Try "Sunsail" who have bases in many places all over the world. With your experience you will not be asked for any certificates and if you had no experience at all, you would only have to do a 2 day course in Largs or Portsmouth and away you go.
The beauty of all this is that with a share in an aeroplane you are getting all your flying in the most economical way possible and when you charter the boat you have no insurance, mooring fees, maintenance bills or depreciation to worry about.

Englishal

He's the captain of an offshore diving vessel so I used to mainly sail with him (as he knew what he was doing!)

Interesting you should mention this as I work on a deep sea diving ship.... In fact I'm actually typing this on the ship right now! What vessel is he on?

Lastly.... I've been at sea (Merchant Navy) for the past 33 years and sometimes I wonder whether I would have preferred to have chosen flying as career. But on the other hand doing it as a "job" may have removed some of the fun from it that I enjoy so much today. There is another potential string here:ok:

[BackPacker]

Get a PPL(A) instead of a NPPL and you could fly yourself back home from wherever you ended the yacht trip.

Ah, yes, but you do need somebody to ferry the aircraft back. Unless you ferry an aircraft carrier of course.:ok:

[dcamxx]

Flashbangwallop. Lots of encouragement from your fellow forumites to go for it. I'd heartily concur.!

My penny-worth is that should you sell your yacht, occasional chartering is not too, too ridiculously expensive - especially if costs are shared amongst a small group. You'd be able to do a fair bit of chartering for the typical annual standing costs of your own yacht.

An additional benefit is being able to sample a variety of cruising locations without having to "deliver" ones own boat to the new location.

Good luck.....

[pulse1]

After thirty years of being a passionate sailor, sorry, rephrase that, passionate about sailing, I flew over the Solent this afternoon and had no desire whatsoever to be down there. (Mind you, there wasn't a lot of wind).

I used to love sailing across the Channel but now, comparing a comfortable 45 minutes with up to 15 hours of cold, wet and seasickness - no contest.

[mad_jock]

Go for it. The Gru is so much prettier when you fly it yourself.

Give it a few months then you will be getting a float rating like the others at Scottish and you can do a bit of both.

[fisbangwollop]

Thanks for the response's so far....giving me food for thought...guess I am at a cross-roads in my life and dont know which way to turn.....keep the ideas coming!!...:cool::cool::cool:

[POBJOY]

Keep the boat,and buy a Turbulent,only use the radio under extreme circumstances.Best of both worlds !!

[BabyBear]

fis, is it sailing you enjoy, or the sea?

[PH-UKU]

Yoo can always do both ... ;)

Wanna come flying tomorrow (Friday) ? PM me or call me.

PS You need to pass exams to take this one on the water :E

[fisbangwollop]

PM in the post....:ok:

[stickandrudderman]

I too have commercial yachtmaster ticket but haven't sailed for a few years now.
I think if I won the lottery I'd live near the sea (Goodwood would be nice) I could sail boats, fly aeroplanes and drive race cars, possibly all in one day!
I hate to repeat it but the "three F rule" does have a lot going for it!!;)
(And for most of us two out of three is entirely achievable!)

[Dr John Watson]

anytime you want to go flying PM me -listen to Scottish from a different perspective.

[fisbangwollop]

anytime you want to go flying PM me -listen to Scottish from a different perspective.

Hey thanks for that.....non of this Mayday stuff with me aboard though!! :) I wont be on the other end to help in that case :ok:.......will take you up on that one day...Mr ATC from Glasgow still promising me a trip in the Kitfox from your field...remind him of that next time you meet!! :cool::cool:

[MichaelJP59]

There must be a lot in common as many flyers also love yachting. My brother-in-law has a 36' Benetau yacht and I've spent the occasional weekend with him. I like it but it's a real lifestyle thing. He spends every other weekend at the marina but probably only takes the yacht out 1 in 4 weekends, due to various factors like weather, tides, time etc.

[fisbangwollop]

PH-UKU Wanna come flying tomorrow (Friday) ? PM me or call me.



Hey thanks for the best days flying of my life :O:O........without doubt the way for a flying starved sailor to go........4 lochs splashed.....ashore on one beach for hot Ovaltine and some of the best mountain flying you will ever see....and OH...sorry to the navy guys in the Lynx....hope we didnt frighten you too much!! :ok::ok: :cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:

[Squeegee Longtail]

You look back in life and regret your economies, but not your extravagances. Do both if you can, I do.

[tarnish26]

I agree...what the heck its only money for Gods sake, you go spend it and enjoy whilst you can.You will then have the best of both worlds and make many friends to.:ok:

[xrayalpha]

If Glasgow ATC won't take you up for a flight in his Kitfox, come for a flight at Strathaven in one of our weightshifts or C42s.

Always glad to take any ATC up for a go in one of our aircraft - good for us to see a "face behind a voice" and good for them to see what and where we fly.

[jonkil]

If its only VFR flying you intend doing and local bimbling (well sort of !) then the NPPL(M) and a microlight would be the way to go.
I have talked to you many times on our numerous trips across from Ireland to Blighty. I am only a VFR microlight pilot but trips from North West Ireland to all over the UK, right to Lands-End and indeed to Europe is not a problem with proper planning. We have a few trips of over 2000NM done this year already. Microlights can now out-shine much of the heavier stuff in terms of cost/maintenance/performance and to boot it puts grass strips of 200 metres well within its capabilities. In terms of costs they are un-beatable, yes there is downsides to it, but why fly a 4 place aircraft with one passenger !, and weight can be an issue.
Where in Scotland is your nearest airstrip? you would be more than welcome to have a seat on board with one of us guys in one of our weekend danders around Scotland or the UK.
All the best on whatever you decide.

Jon
Ikarus C42 912s
www.RuskeyAirfield.com (http://www.RuskeyAirfield.com)

[PH-UKU]

and weight can be an issue.

You've met Mr "Who ate all the Pies" then ? :E

[fisbangwollop]

Xrayalpha and Jonkil........many thanks for those kind offers...still on a high since my trip with PH-UKU even if I didnt get a wasp up my trouser leg :) will now need to give it all some very serious thought....the first stage has been actioned...my yacht is up for sale!! Hopefully talk soon.:ok::cool::cool::cool:

[madflyer26]

FBW,

Good to hear you're getting yourself back into the sky. I am sure I have spoken to yourself and others at Scottish whilst flying out of Oban and Cumbernauld. You guys and girls are always polite and never express any sort of frustration even with the pilots who sometimes fluff their calls, for that I commend your professionalism.

If you ever fancy a bit of flying around the Oban area both my brother and I would be more than happy to take you for a jolly. As other posters have alluded to it's good to put a face to a voice.

Anyway best of luck with your flying endeavours and I am sure you will have little difficulty achieving the NPPL.
Regards MF

[fisbangwollop]

Madflyer26....once again many thanks to you to.......its easy to see why I want to get back into flying when everyone just seems so happy to help :ok:....as for speaking in the past yes no doubt we have....someone once said I always sound so cheery on the radio and that is so true:):)...its easy to be happy in your work when talking to nice folk like we do.:rolleyes:As for never getting frustrated :ugh: well that s also true...its far better you come on my frequency and make a mess of it than speak to Glasgow when they are really busy with commercial stuff!! Look forward to speaking soon. :cool::cool::cool:

[Glasgow_Flyer]

hehe - back in the day I remember Scottish asking what the sea was looking like near Largs and telling me how much he was looking forward to getting out there later that afternoon. Just shows ya...!