Auster Aiglet down near Bicester

[LowNSlow]

An Auster Aiglet has crashed with severe injuries to the pilot on Sunday.

BBC NEWS | UK | England | Aircraft crash caught on camera (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/8265616.stm?ls)

Fortunately the pilot's condition is described as "stable"

Judging by the eye witness account that she heard a "swoosh" I would assume that the engine had stopped given that the sound generated by a Gipsy engine is a bit louder than that.

Edited to remove non-funtional link!

[znww5]

There was a thread started on here on the day of the incident, but it strangely seems to have evaporated.

As it happens, I drove past the site 10 or 15 minutes after the event and the fire service were in attendance and there was a blue and yellow helicopter overhead. Weather was nil wind, mist with some thicker patches and very humid. I imagine the pilot was hoping to make Bicester which is only a short distance away, but the lorry park has a line of trees around one edge.

Thankfully, all on board survived.

[Captain Stable]

Fortunately the pilot's condition is described as "stable"It wasn't me!

[Saab Dastard]

There was a thread started on here on the day of the incident, but it strangely seems to have evaporated.

Deleted by the thread starter, as is their prerogative.

SD

[znww5]

Thanks for the clarification SD.

[22/04]

Remember seeing the aeroplane at the College of Aeronautics in '69 then Duck End farm in '74.

Seems sad after so many years flying safely.

Mods remove if this isn't suitable but firends on the airfield think it was not engine but lack of TORA that was an issue

[impulse9]

I'm glad they all survived. Without being in bad taste, wouldn't it have been better to make a biggles 'pancake' landing?

*joke*

[oscarisapc]

From the CCTV pictures it seems the plane was making some sort of crash landing into the trees. The pilot might not have suffered such severe injuries had it not then hit a skip. Very bad luck to go for the trees when all else fails and then find a solid metal object hidden there.

[airborne_artist]

BBC News - 'Flying conditions' led to Oxfordshire crash (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/oxfordshire/8546973.stm)

AAIB report (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/february_2010/auster_j5f_aiglet_trainer__g_amzu.cfm)

[gpn01]

I don't usually question the wisdom and knowledge of AAIB investigators (of whom I have the greatest respect) but I'm curious as to the inference that it may have been due to "High density altitude". If the air is highly dense then wouldn't this facilitate an improved climb rate whereas the accident related to a poor climb rate? This would suggest that the air was 'thinner' than normal, i.e. would be a lower pressure/density than normal? Thinking about it, shouldn't it be described as a "High altitude density" (i.e. lower air pressure, leading to an effect similar to taking off from a higher altitude airfield). Overall though, I'd be worried about flying in anything whose performance is potentially affected by a height difference of only a thousand feet or so.

[hoodie]

You're correct with the theory, but not with the terminology.

"High" refers to the equivalent ISA altitude, rather than the actual air density - i.e. "High D.A." = "Low air density".

See here: Density Altitude (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density_altitude)

[AndyGB]

Well I suppose the point of the AAIB reports is that we learn from them and don't repeat the same mistakes.

I for one would never have considered that DA would be a factor when flying in the UK as I wouldn't have thought the temperature got high enough. In California (where I learnt) yes, Oxfordshire no.

[dublinpilot]

And don't forget that 'density altitude' can be increased by more than ground altitude. ;)

Increase the temperature significantly, and your 'density altitude' climbs significantly too.

[hatzflyer]

As an ex Aiglet owner I think the density thing is a bit of a red herring.
Having flown in much worse conditions than those described, I am amazed that it didn't get off.
Maybe the fact that he was over " pinning it on " was more of a factor.

[S-Works]

That thought occurred to me as well. 60mph still on the ground in an Auster is almost VNE!!


I take mine off at 46kts or it is bouncing all over the runway.

[hatzflyer]

Just for the record Steve ( not sure if you know) the aiglet trainer has clipped wings so less area. It would be more susceptible to" hot and high" but even so...
I've had two of them. Ranold Porteuas developed the Porteus ( not sure of spelling) loop in one. His displays were legendary.

[VOD80]

Tha t would be "Porteous"!

If memory serves correctly, that would have been on G-AMMS, a jolly fine Auster on which I did my PPL...

[hatzflyer]

That's right .I 've flown Gamms as well. Was the loop later called an avalanche ?

[VOD80]

Yes, it was also called an avalanche.

So, when did you fly G-AMMS? Must have been out of Eggesford?

[hatzflyer]

No it was in Norfolk. Must about 20 yrs ago

[gasax]

A density altitude of 1300ft does not seem to be a particular issue.

Having said that I recall my old Terrier hated the heat - once the temperature got over 30 degree C it would skip along a runway for quite a way and then reluctantly climb away - 500 odd metres was always plenty but with a shorter wing who knows?

My Terrier had a pretty comprehensive set of data on takeoff and climb performance in the flight manual which would answer the question on likely performance (even though it had no fuel or oil consumption data!)

[hatzflyer]

Whilst the terrifier has bigger wings ,it is also substantially heavier.

[S-Works]

Yeah, tell me about it!!! It's like trying to throw a dustcart around!!
:p:p

[gasax]

That is a very cruel thing to say.

Provoked by simply jealously I think - a Terrifier beats the air (and small obstacles) into submission, your lightweight machines are simply windblown seeds in comparison.

That day we were at the full 2400lbs in nil wind and used virtually all of the runway at Lognes - but there is something mighty fine about flying down the Seine low level in blazing sunshine with your elbow out of the sliding window!!!

[S-Works]

I have to confess to being the owner of a Terrifier!!! In fact about to go and beat the air into submission before dark. After a day flying IAP's at work I need the simpler things in life!!

[VictorGolf]

I must confess to raising an eyebrow as to density altitude being the cause of this incident. My experience with DA was on a midday takeoff in a PA-28 140 with 3 on board at Nairobi Wilson in a temperature of 32 degrees C. Full tanks of course. It was a VERY long takeoff and it was only afterwards that we worked out the DA was up near 8,500 feet. You start at an actual height of 5,500 feet above sea-level of course. The only redeeming feature was that a Lufthansa crew with 4 pax went through the fence in a PA-28 Arrow a couple of weeks later. Nobody hurt fortunately.
Many years later I was in a group on a Cessna 172 at Denham and having flown and filled her up, one of the other group memebers plus 3 friends and bags were about to depart to the IOW. It was quite a warm day so I asked if they'd checked the DA and they looked at me as though I was barmy but once again they only JUST got off so DA can bite in the UK.

[Sir George Cayley]

Is it me? Or does DA only bite when a/c are at max takeoff weight? (172 4 up + bags:confused:)

Just a thought:)

SGC

[gasax]

If you routinely fly a 4 seater - well yes. Because usually we only fly them 2 up.

My friend used to lend me his TriPacer - very capable machine - especially when light - close to Super Cub performance at low density altitude and weights.

Put full fuel and 3 fat b**gers in it - the performance change was considerable. So yes, unless you routinely fly your aircraft at max weight then it is easy to be surprised by a somewhat sluggish 'leap into the air'

The Terrier being a monstrously heavy beast had much less of a change in performance - but then its power to weight ration would never impress!