Oceanic Clearance over HF?

[VinRouge]

Hi all,

Operated over the north pond quite a few times. Havent been down to the south pond before, we are going to be operating in Oceanic areas with only HF coverage (atlantico FIR). Now, I am fine with obtaining Oceanic clearance over VHF (shanwick,gander), but what happens when we cannot obtain oceanic clearance prior to entering the FIR due to poor HF Comms? we are operating from an airfield practically on a FIR Boundary.

Will our oceanic clearance take us across the entire pond (to dest) or extend only to the next FWA and thus require multiple Oceanic clearances as we cross each sector?

Any good online resources explaining this? I have searched tinternet high and low for a south atlantic Ops manual, or even an AIP for the FIRs we are crossing, with absolutely no joy whatsoever.

Thanks in advance.

[babemagnet]

5.1.11 If pilots have not received their Oceanic Clearance prior to reaching the Shanwick OCA boundary, they must contact Domestic ATC and request instructions to enable them to remain clear of Oceanic Airspace whilst awaiting such Clearance. This is not the case for other NAT OCAs into any of which flights may enter whilst pilots are awaiting receipt of a delayed Oceanic Clearance. Pilots should always endeavour to obtain Oceanic Clearance prior to entering these other NAT OCAs; however if any difficulty is encountered the pilot should not hold while awaiting Clearance unless so directed by ATC. In such circumstances, pending receipt of the Oceanic Clearance, the aircraft should continue to maintain the flight level cleared by the current control authority.

http://www.nat-pco.org/nat/MNPSA/MNPSA_2008.pdf

You mean this?

[Hebridean Jocky]

Cheers for this.
Just on the off chance here, Would you have any info on HF in the Middle East and India??
Have great problems with Mumbai HF.
Thanks again.
HJ

[babemagnet]

i dont know never been there i only fly North atlantic sometimes cheers

[VinRouge]

babe,

thanks for the link, unfortunately that is for NAT. I am going SAT as it were. Its a shame ICAO dont do an Oceanic (General) handbook, or perhaps the Other OCAs actually bothered to release their AIPs with procedures for oceanic on the internet.

Global village my bum!

[wiggy]

" if any difficulty is encountered the pilot should not hold while awaiting Clearance unless so directed by ATC. In such circumstances, pending receipt of the Oceanic Clearance, the aircraft should continue to maintain the flight level cleared by the current control authority."

Well that pretty much sums up what happens in reality on the South Atlantic..you may never get a "formal" Oceanic clearance, Gander or Shanwick style..you just have keep going, try all the frequencies and stand by to give lots of forward estimates when you do finally get through.

"..Have great problems with Mumbai HF."......join the club :ugh:

[BOAC]

VR - you could try calling on the ground when you have a reasonable estimate of entry, refuelling permitting, of course.