747-8 Flight Deck

[FMS82]

Thought 747 pilots would take an interest in the latest evolution of their kit;

A Closer Look: 747 flight deck evolves with the -8 - FlightBlogger - Aviation News, Commentary and Analysis (http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/flightblogger/2009/08/a-closer-look-747-flight-deck.html)

Minor updates; as would be expected with the common rating with the 744

[Superpilot]

There's still that horrible pukey brown colour

[Spooky 2]

Also don't forget the EFB which will be standard OEM. Whether the operator uses it or not is a different story.

[j_davey]

looks like a 400 with a few goodies, but if it aint broke....

will there be a common type rating with the -400?

-jd

edit: maybe i should have read the full article before posting:ugh:

[Rainboe]

Oh dear! They come up with a 400 23 years later? We are nearly a quarter century past the 400 introduction, and the industry is given the same stuff again? Apollo wasn't broke- so why aren't they using that again instead of spending umpteen billions developing the same again, but bigger? Having seen some of the latest gear on an Embraer- I can't believe this!

[Spooky 2]

Completely new wing and some pretty advanced engines. In case you haven't checked lately it cost a bundle to develope a new airplane and many of the potential customers are already deep in the red.:}

[NSEU]

Oh dear! They come up with a 400 23 years later?

Maybe they shouldn't have brought out the 737NG or the MD11?

Evolution, rather than revolution, I say. We've yet to see how successful the 787 will be.

That new gear lever is the only backward step. They probably saved a few pounds in weight, but lost the most reliable system on the aircraft. When have those levers ever failed? And they even work with flat batteries :}

The panels may look similar, but I'm sure there are lots of differences underneath. BTW, that pneumatics panel has some new switches on it. Did they switch to electric packs?(a la 787?)

[By George]

Fuel panel is the same but no stab pumps? Must be a Freighter. Also what are those knobs at the bottom of the FMCs', dimmers? I have flown the 400 with the 'classic' standby Instruments and a new Freighter with that combined 'glass' display and I much prefer the old round dials for standby. I would hate to fly an approach on that postage stamp thingy. Ok if you have the eyes of an eighteen year old. I guess the men in white coats think it's highly unlikely you will need them.

[Ancient Observer]

Rainboe - the problem with your 747-400 of a few years ago was noise. Those RR "things" were, in the early 400s, incredibly noisy, especially at lhr.

Normally these updates brings better engine efficiency and noise. Good. (I still live near lhr)

[FMS82]

BTW, that pneumatics panel has some new switches on it. Did they switch to electric packs?(a la 787?)


The more electric architecture - a consequence of the new engines- should be the cause. From what I heard, the 748 will also have a RAT as a novelty.


We are nearly a quarter century past the 400 introduction, and the industry is given the same stuff again?


Yup, developing a fully new 787 style cockpit for what will be a very small fleet will not be cost effective. And operators (mainly cargo airlines operating 744 in great numbers) want cockpit commonality. So Boeing offers them just that.


Must be a Freighter. Also what are those knobs at the bottom of the FMCs', dimmers?


Yup, it's a freighter. This one will go to Cargolux somewhere in 2010.
The knobs are (I believe) selectors you use to scroll through FMS items, turn it to scroll, puch the top to select. 777 pilots should be able to tell for sure?

[SMOC]

what are those knobs at the bottom of the FMCs'

They are cursor control selectors for the electronic checklist.

do LCD screens get retrofitted on 744s that were produced pre-2002 or is the retrofit too costly to justify? (Is it even an option anyway....)

Yes over time the CRTs should all be gone the LCD's are much lighter require less power and are more reliable, don't overheat like the CRT is capable off. I'd say most airlines replace them as their spares and useful life run out.

[muduckace]

I am dissapointed with the minimal advancements listed. Would expect larger lcd pfd/nd/mfd screens. The interaction seems to be displayed but not advertized. Was hoping for somenting similat to the g-550 or A380 for example.

From an avionics standpoint I hope to see that the cockpit has advanced to at least common day example of a new aircraft.

[muduckace]

Did they switch to electric packs?(a la 787?)

This would be a great advancement given the redundancy of 4 engines. I do not know if 4 starter/idg's (going from 90kva to 240 kva) and the cabin volume was a simple or economical solution. Surely it was possible.

[B-HKD]

do LCD screens get retrofitted on 744s that were produced pre-2002 or is the retrofit too costly to justify? (Is it even an option anyway....)

Introduced with the ER/ERF deliveries and from then on available as a retrofit.

Airlines that have replaced the 744 CRTs with LCDs:

CX (only on B-HUJ pax 744 so far ) anybody with more info. reg. CX ?
VS (all)
QF (only on 3 aircraft and then stopped)
CV (ongoing and planned for all)
CI (ongoing/for some freighters)

They should have made retrofit available including LCD + the digital ISFD and the digital MCP (some airlines already replacing the MCP actively)

Leo

[muduckace]

CRT's generate moreheat distorting images to a magenta hue in the MD-11 especially after long legs (747). LCD's are much more reliable and less costly in the long run on all airframes to my knowledge

[ShirleyNot]

Whats that on the other side of the windscreen? Are they building it underwater?:) Looks like a good solid Boeing though.

[Twitter n Bisted]

Did they switch to electric packs?(a la 787?)

I still see 4 bleed switches. I suspect packs are still ACM type.

But I have hear the 787 style electric brakes are fitted :ok:

[16down2togo]

No elec packs, standard bleed. New version of the GeNX for the -8 WITH bleed air, remember the 747 is an Air driven A/C (leading edge, hyd. pumps..).
Flight deck common with -400 for same rating with little differences.
RAT required for the first time since the big engines don't guarantee to power the accessories via windmilling up to landing speeds.
Rgds 16

[leewan]

It does look like a 777 cockpit with 4 thrust throttles with a 744 like overhead panel. I believe the RAT is required in all a/cs in the design stages now due to the LROPS ruling being in the works to replace the ETOPS ruling. The A380 has a RAT as well.

Found a pic of the 748 landing gear. Can't see no evidence of electrical brakes being fitted.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/aerospace/library/747-8_Landing_Gear.JPG

[Terry McCassey]

At long last they have redesigned the gear lever. No more heart stopping moments to select gear up when replacing the F/O's MCDU by the look of it . . .

[divinehover]

Still sticking with a stupid yoke I see. Really pointless in a modern airliner. Looks very 'yesterday' compared to the A380, A350 and B787.

[Denti]

The 787 has a yoke too.

And allways be aware that it is not a new type, it is just a new variant, therefore a certain commonality is a must.

[Harry Burns]

Problem for Boeing with a redesign would be that, as soon as you would bring in some new stuff, it would look like an Airbus.

HB

[gengis]

Still sticking with a stupid yoke I see. Really pointless in a modern airliner. Looks very 'yesterday' compared to the A380, A350 and B787.

I prefer the yoke anyday. Not being able to cross my legs nicely or have a pull-out tray table is little consequence to me.

[HURZ]

I´m not so happy with the position of the autobrake selector.
It should be in a position where BOTH pilots can easily reach it...

I remember on the 400 we had it just below the Cpts ND and the position of the selector was changed to the aisle stand.

[TopBunk]

Hurz

If both pilots can reach the gear lever, surely they can both reach the less critical autobrake selector?

For me, it is logical in its new position.

[Harry Burns]

Keep in mind that the cockpit of a 747 is not thaat wide, so reaching each others side is not so problematic compared to other wide body types.


HB

[HURZ]

Jup, you are right that the flt deck is not so wide. However the it can be very handy when both pilots can get to the A/B selctor easily without doing acrobatics and even without looking at it. Let´s see how reality will be when we get it in 2010 (or maybe later:hmm:)

[stilton]

Best location I saw for the Autobrake selector was on a 742 where it was installed on the overhead just above and to the left of the landing lights.



Easily reachable by the Captain with his / her right hand without haviing to bend over / lean forward.

[B-HKD]

Check your PMs HURZ!

[NSEU]

At long last they have redesigned the gear lever. No more heart stopping moments to select gear up when replacing the F/O's MCDU by the look of it . . .

??? I'm sure you'll find that you can remove the MCDU with the lever in OFF.
It won't accidentally go to UP unless you push the override button.

[muduckace]

Just an observation of pilots who prefer the airbus "Phallus", "joystick" control. MDC produced yolks with a beefy hands on on feel. Boeing produced a slightly smaller yolk.

Maybe a french thing to produce a delecate yolk as they are used to handeling (a300/a310) and then realizing that only one hand actually produced results that drove them to the side stick.

Hell, this is all humour, I have flown MDC, Boeing and Airbus sims. Enjoy MSFS and realize that human interface to operating an aircraft is all the same.

Having said that, given the scenario that the other pilot is incapacitated, the airbus sidestick allows a single pilot better control, having the ability to use the other hand to perform the other necessary functions that the pilot not landing the aircraft would usually perform.

Just an observation from a line "flight mech" and avionics tech.