Cwmbran or Astac?

[ATCO2009]

I’m in the process of deciding which college to go for and would be interested in any advice from anyone who has been through either Astac or BAE Cwmbran reasonably recently. Particularly an idea of the pass rates and how many people on each course? Also how did you find the instructors and facilities, particularly the simulators? Do either college give any help to find a position at an airport after training?

For the aerodrome and approach courses how good do you have to be to pass! I appreciate that whatever you do has to be safe and reasonably expeditious but since these courses seem relatively short, I’m wondering how busy, in terms of aircraft movements, are the final simulator runs and how complex is the airport and airspace used in the simulators?

Sorry about all of the questions and thanks in advance for any answers.

[VCR]

I would recommend visiting both colleges, it will certainly help you make your mind up.

[Barnaby the Bear]

For the aerodrome and approach courses how good do you have to be to pass! I appreciate that whatever you do has to be safe and reasonably expeditious but since these courses seem relatively short, I’m wondering how busy, in terms of aircraft movements, are the final simulator runs and how complex is the airport and airspace used in the simulators?

No disrespect but thats an odd question. You have to be good enough to satisfy the CAA's approved course.
I may be wrong in assuming your history, but if you have been to the NATS college you will find the traffic levels very similar.
They will provide the necessary training to enable you to deal with the traffic levels. Its entirely up to you and your ability whether you can manage them.
Sorry if I sound a bit harsh.
As VCR said, I would highly recommend you visit both colleges and have a look for yourself. Meet the instructors (they have probably worked in both colleges at some point) and get a feel for the place. If you are worried about traffic levels in a sim maybe you should take the aptitude test to ensure you have the required ability to begin the course.

Good luck

[ATCO2009]

Thanks for your replies. Just to confirm I haven't been to the NATS college so can't compare traffic levels with that. The question was more out of interest, I've done a bit of flying and seen how traffic varies at different airfields. I understand that the CAA sets the required standards and that these will apply equally at any college, I was just curious about what is required for a Student licence.

I will be going to see both colleges next month and would still be interested to hear of anyone's experiences at either college.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

ATCO2009... Have you read CAP670 or "THE UNITED KINGDOM AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLER LICENCE, A GUIDE TO THE LICENSING PROCESS" ?

I guess some people on here will be curious as to why you are spending an arm and a leg instead of trying NATS first? The Air Traffic Controller's Licence is similar in many respects to the higher commercial pilot's licences - several of the same subjects, similar amount to time to become "solo" (ie several years) and similar pass marks required - at least 70% plus regular competency and medical checks throughout your working life. Irrespective of where you do your approved course, ultimately it will be the CAA which issues your Licence and it becomes your personal property.

Incidentally, I presume you have a Class 1 Medical? If not, it's time to think also whether you are fit enough..

I wish you all the luck and I hope you are prepared for some very serious work ahead.

[ATCO2009]

Heathrow Director, Thanks for your reply. I am aware of the subjects covered in training and do not at all underestimate the amount of work required. I was more trying to ascertain the practical level achieved during training for a student licence and the pass rate of the courses (i.e. an indication of the percentage of trainees who actually complete the courses at either training organisation - rather than the pass mark for the exams).

As regards the decision not to apply for NATS this is a "lifestyle" choice. I do not aspire to work in Swanwick or at one of the busier airfields where NATS provide air traffic services and the likelihood of being posted to one of the more regional airfields is, I understand, fairly remote.

So back to the original questions, any views on either Cwmbran or Astac? Also any indication of the traffic levels, number of IFR/VFR movements during the sim runs, and complexity of the airfield and airspace used in initial training (As mentioned before I appreciate this will not vary between either of the independent colleges or Hurn)?

Anyone with any info please feel free to PM me rather than posting on the forum if you prefer. Thanks.

[Sweet Potatos]

Gotta agree with the other chaps/chapesses on here. First make sure your medical is in place, then look at which one to go for.

For Tower/Basic, I'd recommend Cwymbran as they have the 360 degree Simulator which is excellent.
I've only been to ASTAC for my courses(Tower, Approach and Approach Radar. They were all excellent, instructors great and college atmosphere with staff and fellow students was superb. Hear the NATS college is good too, but the courses are bigger and hence will have a higher student instructor ratio and as a consequence does suffer a higher fail rate.

Traffic ... well, it's busy enough at every stage to make you work ... hard! Each college has to satisfy the same requirements from the CAA so are identical in that respect. Go on a visit to each and see which one you prefer. Don't worry about the traffic, you build up to each level. But once you pass it shows you have the ability to go on to "real world" traffic for further training.
There is no easy back door into this one!!

[ILS 119.5]

Sorry in Cwmbran, the tower simulator is not 360 degrees more like 240 degrees which makes a difference. However from what I know Cwmbran is one of the better private colleges if you cannot get into NATS. I did my training with NATS in the early eighties and fully enjoyed it, there wasn,t a fantastic tower simulator just buttons to punch on a light board thingy. Still not sure what it was called, but think might be on ebay somewhere.

[goatface]

I know that the quality of instructors and equipment at both ASTAC and Cwmbran is very high in both cases, but something to bear in mind - which I hadn't even considered in my dealings with both colleges - is what happens if one gets into financial difficulties.
One institution is backed by a massive British company who I assume, would refund any fees, the other isn't and I don't know who their backers are.

I understand that at one of the colleges, late last year, the students turned up to find the gates locked shut cos allegedly the rent hadn't been paid.
I believe that the matter was sorted very quickly and there's absolutely no suggestion that they are in any trouble or are suffering because of the recession, but it's about the only thing that would make me think twice about paying large amounts of cash up front for my training.