View Full Version : Air 2000 forced to make emergency descent

6th Oct 2001, 12:17
This article apeared in Gulf Daily News today

London: A British airliner carrying 220 people was forced to make an emergency descent soon after taking off from a Greek island because of other planes in the area, officials said yesterday. An investigation was under way into the incident involving an Air 2000 Boeing 757 on a flight from the island of Kos to Manchester, England, the airline said.
The plane was forced to drop 70 metres shortly after taking off on Thursday, the airline said. The airline said the pilot was forced to take the action because of other aircraft in the area. Nobody was hurt in the incident, it said.

I have not found this story anywhere else. Has the GDN finally started making them up?


Devils Advocate
6th Oct 2001, 12:27
W.r.t. I have not found this story anywhere else.

err, well perhaps that's because it's not news !

6th Oct 2001, 13:07
I have not heard anything either, and I'm much closer then you :)

6th Oct 2001, 13:29
Devil's Advocate (!)

Would it not be fair to say that this was almost certainly caused by sketchy ATC and as such should be a story.

[ 06 October 2001: Message edited by: crackerjack ]

6th Oct 2001, 15:02
It was on BBC teletext "regional news" yesterday but didn't get a lot of coverage because of all the other news concerning BAR/BACE. (ie. 200 more job losses!)

And, like you say, it isn't exactly news is it?

Devils Advocate
6th Oct 2001, 18:15
If every time an aircraft had a TCAS TA or, more pertinently, an RA, it was to make the news, the media would be full of the stuff, and you can't really blame it on the locale either, coz I've had'em in the UK, Spain, France, etc...

Imho, such an event is actually more likely a result of excessive V/S during the climb / descent, and is something which is a particular problem in the lower levels because, A). the aircraft has a lot more grunt in the nice dense air, and B). aircraft converging on airfields tend to make the sky seem more crowded.

Accordingly (again, imho), V/S is a valid mode for any level change when the aircraft is exhibiting large rates (+3000'/minute) of climb - but you'd be amazed how many folks blindly press LVL-CHG or VNAV and quite happily sit there (particularly in a twin jet aircraft, when it's light) with the VSI indicating daft rates of up - and they then wonder why the TCAS starts shouting at them, as they converge with another aircraft !

Ok, it might be fair comment that some areas of the world are more vulnerable to this (e.g. some of the uncontrolled eastern Mediterranean airports) but as pilots we counter that with the knowledge that it's very much us who are the final arbiters of our fate in such environs, and we (by necessity) then exhibit just that bit more vigilance / airmanship than per normal - which if this story is true, rather sounds like what they did.

6th Oct 2001, 19:03
Devils Advocate

Good point - When TCAS was first fitted to our 757's ( especially the E4's) it didn't take me too long to work out that blasting off on a MID departure took you straight under the OCK hold with excessive rates of climb. Soon as we were clean I'd hit V/S and thumb in 1000 fpm max and hence had a clean sheet with no RA's. Not so much of a prob on the '77 as initial rates are not quite so spectacular. Of course all this used to be called "Airmanship".....

6th Oct 2001, 22:05
Pax interviewed last night at home on BBC local news. Claimed that Captain informed them that "autopilot had taken over"(sic) and dived to avoid military aircraft. Wife said she would have panicked but she had the children with her. Please BBC,stick to reporting News. Not missinformed twadle.

Devils Advocate
7th Oct 2001, 01:54
Precisely doubledolphin

Uhm, did they interview the Captain ? Apparently not, and I'd imagine that he just filed an ASR, went home, put his feet up, and thought no more of it - just another normal day at the office.

What might seemingly have occurred is that the media interviewed some hysterical woman, i.e. she (apparently) admitted herself that she was on the verge of panic, and of course her 'panicking' would really have helped, wouldn't it ? ....... and just to think that these people can vote too ! ....... and from which her (maybe muddled) recollections are then portrayed as the facts of this (apparent) incident.

Now w.r.t 'the autopilot had taken over'.

What utter codswallop ! I.e. unless Air2bobs QRH (aka. the emergency checklist) is different to everybody else's, the normal Boeing one says something akin to this for a TCAS RA (whilst not in the landing configuration) - assuming that this is what occurred:


For TCAS RA except "CLIMB" in landing configuration:

If manoeuvring is required, disengage the autopilot and smoothly adjust pitch and thrust to satisfy the RA command.

Nb. The TCAS is not linked to the autopilot - but if it determines that a risk of collision might exist it (the TCAS) suggests either a pitch or V/S range (depends on the system fitted) to resolve the conflict between the aircraft. It's up to the pilots to make their aircraft comply with that commanded pitch or V/S.

So BBC et al, we know that you monitor PPRuNe and it's something from which you get a lot of info. Could we therefore ask you to please reciprocate some of our goodwill by desisting from publishing sensationalistic stories where none is warranted, i.e. lets have FACTS not fiction, because doing the latter ultimately does neither you, nor the travelling public, any favours. .... E.g.

Airline pilot puts passengers lives at risk !

It'e been reported that an airline Captain has blown his nose.

We've since had it confirmed, by Mrs Snodgrass of Purley, an experienced first time flyer, that mass panic broke out amongst the passengers when the full reality dawned that this reckless pilots action might have led to him suffering a potentially fatal nose bleed.

Mrs Snodgrass later commented that, "Something really must be done to prevent such an atrociously dangerous incident from happening again, and as such I'm also thinking of taking legal action against the airline for blatently endangering me in such a negligent way".

Neither the CAA, or the airline in question, were available for comment.

STOP PRESS........

Subsequent passenger comments have included this from Mrs P Ikey of 'The Travellers Site, Camdem':

"It was horrible it was. We just went fasta and fasta down that runway thingy, know wot I mean, and, well, then we were in the air ! I didn't have a clue wot was hapnin, know wot I mean. It's not right it ain't, know wot I mean. I fink somefink should be dun abart it !"

and this, from Mr S. Panking from Chipping Soddom:

"Look that pilot fella is dangerous ! There was a point, quite late in the journey, when we just seemed to drop, and all the passengers knew that the engines had stopped. About fifteen minutes later there was all this noise, nobody told us what was going on, although they seemed to have got the engines going again, but we were definitely getting closer and closer to the ground - I really thought we were all going to die, even babies were screaming - but somehow we managed to land on the runway"

Yeah, it's crap ! - but people read it, and I'm afraid that sh!t sticks - so let's stopping publishing such crap.

7th Oct 2001, 02:35
...most probably a close encounter with a stray F16 from the recent grand scale exercise in the eastern aegean.
routine stuff... :cool:

7th Oct 2001, 03:10
Well I never, just when I thought everyone one this site had their sense of humour surgically removed..... Keep 'em coming D.A, you're a funny guy. - Don't get carried away though, it's all relative ;-)

7th Oct 2001, 12:56
was mentioned on the BBC Regional TV news.

TCAS picked up military jets and the normal avoidance procedures took
place. An airline spokesman said it demonstrated that the equipment was
doing the job it was installed for and everything worked perfectly
satisfactorily. (or words to that effect)

Mr and Mrs Terrified were interviewed at home as they watched their Kos
family holiday video, having been scared sh*tless.

'Will you take a holiday flight next year,' Mrs Terrified was asked.
'We shall have to think seriously about that.'

Perhaps money might persuade them :D

Pom Pax
7th Oct 2001, 14:47
Mrs Snodgrass of Purley does not realise fully what a dangerous situation she was in because the very act of blowing ones nose involves taking one hand off the steering wheel.