Airbus A320 landing light switch

[longago9]

A friend of mine took an oral exam for a job in the Middle East a while ago.

There was a guy performin the test who was famous for asking the following:

"Please explain what do the" three small like diamond dots "on the landing light switch mean"

If you answer correctly you can leave the test with 100 immediately.

When he asked we supposed they were designed to have an ergonomic feel that would be unmistakable and easy to locate if you had smoke etc and that they represented each landing gear point (3).

Long story short my friend took the exam with this guy, he didnt ask that question but in the end he asked the examiner why he did'nt. He then asked and after this answer just responded - that's incorrect.

Any ideas?

Thanks!:ok:

[SimJock]

Is it because you are effectively doing three things at once on one switch activation ? (3 lights being lowered and put on)

Or is it so that Airbus can charge you a couple of thousand Euros for a switch where a 2 Euro equivalent from radio shack would do the job just as well. ?

[rogerg]

Or is it so that Airbus can charge you a couple of thousand Euros for a switch where a 2 Euro equivalent from radio shack would do the job just as well. ?

That is the same for any aircraft manufacturer. Maybe the same switch, but different warranty etc.

[aristoclis]

Is it because you are effectively doing three things at once on one switch activation ? (3 lights being lowered and put on)

Isn't it 2 lights being lowered and put on?

[tom775257]

I'm intrigued, who actually cares; and beyond that how the hell does that test your ability to operate as a pilot.

I've flown with nob-end trainers who learn an unknown fact about the aircraft and use that to prove they know more than you; while missing the basic (thorough) knowledge a good trainer will know... kind of a way to cover their inadequacies.

[Dani]

The three diamond are a symbol for the lights, so I guess. When you look at an aircraft arriving, you always see these three lights. The same applies for gear handles that look like wheel tyres or like the flap handle that looks like a flap.

Additionally, the "diamonds" are fluorescent and still shine in complete darkness.

Or was that in another aircraft?

Dani

[Tree]

3 position switch?

[leewan]

I've flown with nob-end trainers who learn an unknown fact about the aircraft and use that to prove they know more than you; while missing the basic (thorough) knowledge a good trainer will know... kind of a way to cover their inadequacies.

LOL :ok: Have came across such losers as well, from an engineering point of view They state one unknown and not so important fact to built up the mystery that they know the a/c inside out.
But seriously, isn't it 2 lights that are activated when you switch on the landing lights.
The only reason i can think off is to give pilots a tactile way to locate the switch if the cockpit is filled with smoke, as you mentioned. Or it could be something brought over from the maritime sector like many things in the aviation sector.

[Jimmy Do Little]

I recall from somewhere - but can't remember exactly - that the dots indicate that the specific switch is a "3 Position Switch."

All others LIGHT SWITCHES are simply on / off.


Edited. We're talking about light switches normally used on the overhead panel which do something MORE than simply turning a light on (ie: Extension / Retraction). Also, not switches that include any type of guard or are otherwise protected from movement except in unusual circumstances.

[Gary Lager]

Except the NAV/POSN switch. And the emer exit light switch. And the No smoking signs switch. And the EFIS VOR/ADF selector. And the Nosewheel light switch. Um....

[Swedish Steve]

But seriously, isn't it 2 lights that are activated when you switch on the landing lights.

Something not right here.

On A320 there are two landing lights mounted one each side at the inner end of the lower wing. They have a switch each. It is a three posn switch, first detent for extend, second for ON.
There is also one switch for the two lights on the nose gear. First position taxi light, second position take off light.
There is lastly one switch for the two runway turn off lights.

Total two landing lights, one take off light, one taxy light, and two runway turnoff lights.

[PappyJ]

Hmmm.

Landing Gear handle looks like a landing gear handle,
Flap lever looks like a flap lever,
Landing Light switch, looks like most any other landing light switch.

Who really cares why? Aren't there more important things to worry about?

[powerstall]

Take a normal switch. Put on some designs and rough edges... Voila!!! you have just made a £100 profit! on a £2 run of the mill, ordinary switch! :ok:

[Slasher]

Please explain what do the" three small like diamond dots "on the landing light switch mean
If you answer correctly you can leave the test with 100 immediately.

What a silley bloodey question to be posed at an interview! Did another w@nker asked what type of tree was pulped to make the Jepp approach plates? :rolleyes:

Why not a more practical one....

Q. Whats the number of fan blades fitted on the left engine?
A. Dunno. But I can tell you if any are missing!

[powerstall]

Are you sure that the interviewer has some background in Aviation? :E

[Gary Lager]

Jokes aside, I feel that if asked at exam then the only reason must be that the examiner is just trying to show off how much more than you he knows, and if he is willing to let you off the rest of the exam if you know the answer then he is unprofessional and derelict in his duty as a TRE as well.

Either this is an urban myth within your airline or the examiner is a c*ck.

[JulieFlyGal]

The same applies for gear handles that look like wheel tyres or like the flap handle that looks like a flap.Do you mean airline pilots will have difficulty is distinguishing the correct handles and levers without these visual queues? LOL!

[Deeday]

Do you mean airline pilots will have difficulty is distinguishing the correct handles and levers without these visual queues? LOL!No, but the more different from each other the various controls look and feel, the fewer the chances are for the pilot to mix them up (and if the handles resemble what they actually control it's even more intuitive).
That's the lesson from past incidents, like people retracting the flaps immediately after rotation, leaving the L/G down instead (ideal for a stall), or a Super Puma's pilot engaging the nosewheel lock instead of the park brake, with subsequent rather messy taxiing.

[Tolan]

Do you mean airline pilots will have difficulty is distinguishing the correct handles and levers without these visual queues? LOL!

What is so "LOL" about having obvious visual and tactile queues? Have you ever been in a Jet airliner flight deck? Obviously not. Apparently, you have never been a sim when it fills smoke, you're wearing an oxygen facemask and can barely see a foot infront of you. When you do grow up and get to the stage of your career where this is the case, you will understand and appreciate the different feeling major switches, knobs and levers have. You won't switch off the anti-skid instead of lowering the landing gear, lower the speed instead of turning left, or in relation to the thread subject, won't switch the nav light system instead of switching on the landing lights.

Imbecile.

[JulieFlyGal]

No, but the more different from each other the various controls look and feel, the fewer the chances are for the pilot to mix them up (and if the handles resemble what they actually control it's even more intuitive).
That's the lesson from past incidents, like people retracting the flaps immediately after rotation, leaving the L/G down instead (ideal for a stall), or a Super Puma's pilot engaging the nosewheel lock instead of the park brake, with subsequent rather messy taxiing.Thanks for your explanation Deeday ..I understand now. :ok:

And as for Tolan's outburst and name calling, maybe it's you who needs to grow up? Amazing how some people can get so agitated over nothing. You must be a delight to fly with, not! :rolleyes:

[Harry Burns]

Indeed it happened more than once that a professional pilot, even without too much stress in on the flight deck, pulled the wrong levers, switched off an engine instead of setting flaps or pushed the wrong button.

HB

[Fargoo]

I seem to remember someone landed an A320 with the park brake set due to a control mix up , anyone remember it? I also vaguely remember that it had happened a few times despite there being no similar control on the flight deck.

[Carnage Matey!]

The only incident that springs to mind was the crew that thought they'd have to land with the park brake set after fiddling with the lever in flight. I doubt it was a control mix up as there's nothing else down there that you would operate in normal flight.

Going back to the original question I noticed yesterday that out 744s have similar landing light switched with three bumps, but they are only 2 position switches.:confused:

[Fargoo]

I had a little read Carnage, it was a BMI A319. Commander selected park brake on instead of moving the flaps.

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/cms_resources/Airbus%20A319-131,%20G-DBCI%2009-07.pdf

Anyway, back on topic :)

[Carnage Matey!]

Blimey! Wrong location, wrong lever, wrong shape, wrong movement (lift and rotate rather than lift and translate). Must have been having a bad day!

[chuckunu]

SO do we have a definite answer to this question? 3 bumps on the landing light switches? same switches in Boeing and Airbus, not sure about the Dc9.

[Neupielot]

i've got another ermm ( dumb ) question.....
What's those little blue cross on some of the panels for? Pretty sure its an engineer thing but....i'm just curious.
/ brace for incoming flame...:bored:

[Metro man]

Anyone ever set the A320s park brake during push back instead of turning the start switch on ? They're not too far apart and the actions are similar. :eek:

[Checkboard]

i've got another ermm ( dumb ) question.....
What's those little blue cross on some of the panels for? Pretty sure its an engineer thing but....i'm just curious.
/ brace for incoming flame...:bored:

The only dumb question is the question not asked.

this was discussed (and, unusually, the answer proven with some photos) a little while ago. The cross marks the point at which that panel's integrated lighting is powered.

[fc101]

I seem to remember someone landed an A320 with the park brake set due to a control mix up , anyone remember it? I also vaguely remember that it had happened a few times despite there being no similar control on the flight deck.


Sure it was an A320...? Not familiar with that type but certainly there have been incidents with the Embraer E170 and parking brake vs spoilers (Finnair for one)..

fc101
E145 Driver

[InTransit]

Jepps are printed on rice paper with soy based ink. Done that way for survival use.

{Ducks head from incoming missiles...there's always one smart arse :} }

[rudderrudderrat]

Hi fc101,

It was an A319. Report is here. (http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/september_2007/airbus_a319_131__g_dbci.cfm)

[Paua]

Hi Metro Man
Yep, one I heard of, about 3 years ago.
Cheers

[Metro man]

Any damage ?

[Paua]

Slowing at the end of pushback, so no damage.
I assume the towbar shearpin did its thing!

[Swannecker]

A320 Landing Light switch, from what I recall, 3 position switch for each wing landing lamp, OFF, EXTEND (Lamp Unit extends from recess in Wing but remains extinguished) ON. Nose Landing lamp is a 2 postion switch, ON, OFF. Two Taxi lamps on NLG, associated switch is ON, OFF.

As for the 3 dots on the switches......French Logic......

[Wally Mk2]

The design of the large flat horizontal surface lever action type switch/s which by way of shape/looks has 3 small protrusions to make for a positive tactile feeling (& built like that for strength) are so made as to be placed in whatever position is required without the chance or at least reducing the chance of the fingers slipping off as might be expetced with a normal toggle type switch. These switches can be moved over a fairly large arc of travel across a detent (center possy) as opposed to a simple on/off switch. As apposed to the T.O/Taxi switch which is also a 3 possy switch which is normally only moved one segment at a time, this is a std type of toggle switch. Remember these two switches are normally turned off or on simultaneously and their very shape by design almost makes then act in the same manor when switched together as though a 'ganged' type switch:)
Also note that pretty much all other reg used 3 possy switches (ext & Int) have also flat or larger surface area lever action toggles as they can be moved thru two possies in one action:-)
Who dreams all this sh1t up?:}
Anyone???:-)
Anyway just a theory:ok:

Wmk2 way out on a limb here but my mum reckons it sounds good:E

[TiredCRJDriver]

3 dots in the Braille system is the letter "L" (maybe Light/Landing Light?)

[sabenaboy]

3 dots in the Braille system is the letter "L" (maybe Light/Landing Light?)

Yep, there's no reason blind pilots couldn't fly an airbus! :cool:

[Fargoo]

Quote:
3 dots in the Braille system is the letter "L" (maybe Light/Landing Light?)
Yep, there's no reason blind pilots couldn't fly an airbus!

Perhaps, but why would a blind Airbus pilot need to switch on the landing lights :eek:

[MurphyWasRight]

3 dots in the Braille system is the letter "L" (maybe Light/Landing Light?

Yep, there's no reason blind pilots couldn't fly an airbus!


Perhaps, but why would a blind Airbus pilot need to switch on the landing lights http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/eek.gif


Because the computer would not let him land if it was dark unless the lights were on ?

[aa73]

Are there any A320 operators out there who allow the crew optional use of the landing lights? Seems all airlines MANDATE the use of those lights at all times below 10,000... making one hell of a noise and vibration in the mid cabin when extended. Are they really necessary on a clear bright day that high up?

Disclaimer: at my airline, on the MD80 fleet, the extendable wing landing lights were always optional, and if used, they were not put out until at least slats/flaps extend at slower speed, so as to mask the vibration.

[PENKO]

Mine encourages the pilots to switch of landing lights when not needed... as long as they are on for take off and landing.

Always a source of rich debate!

[Max Angle]

Recommended below 10,000ft but up to us, I don't tend to turn them on until finals day or night. In the US of course it is mandated below 10.

[Bubi352]

Was it to supposedly "remind" the pilot to have the landing lights ON if not already ON at glideslope interception (diamond shape on PFD)? Trying to think outside the box.

[Bambarbia]

Good question, still unanswered...
Perhaps, this is just tradition, inherited from marine

[catiamonkey]

Wow old thread. Has nothing to do with Airbus, limitations or ILS, because the DC-6 has the same dots. It has nothing to do with 3 position switches since planes like the 737 and the L1011 use two position switches.

The other clue you have is that the Douglas products, up to the 717 use three pieces of white plastic glued to the switch instead of molding it in.

Here's the story. In the bad old days, airplanes didn't have backlit instrument panels. They used red lights that illuminated the panels from the front. When you were on short final and looking for the airport, the lighting of the overhead panel would become an issue. It would cause glare, so you would switch it off. The thing you would need on the overhead panel at this point would be the landing lights.

The three dots were radioluminiscent tritium markers, and later, glow in the dark plastic, to help you find the switches in the dark.

[thermostat]

You must be quite young and inexperienced to make a comment like that. Us older folks remember the accidents caused by pilots mistaking one lever/switch for another. Now that they are all quite different, those mistake don't happen anymore. That was considered very important at the time. Having a flap and landing gear lever that look similar is NOT a good idea.

[Microburst2002]

Catiamonkey

I bet you are right.

Thermostat

Yep. So many things in aviation are the way they are because an airplane crashed and they made improvements.

[Microburst2002]

Anyone knows why I can't save aaib.gov.uk reports?
It is a PDF and I try to save, but to no avail...
Are they protected so that air transport safety information is not unduly disseminated?

[Escape Path]

I heard someone saying one day that the switch has that shape so as to make it distinguishable from other switches because you need those lights when airborne or about to become airborne... but I guess the question now would be why the nav/position lights switch is not that way too? :confused:

[Celnas]

Why did nobody mention the drag effect of these switches?

[vilas]

Do you mean airline pilots will have difficulty is distinguishing the correct handles and levers without these visual queues? LOL!
​​​​​​Not laughing matter. Despite the shape given to the levers Pilots have raised flaps instead of gear, applied parking brake instead of selecting full flap. Despite FCU buttons having names they have stabbed EXPED instead of LOC and trying to stab it again although that doesn't disengage EXPED have stabbed ATHR disconnecting ATHR.

[Uplinker]

I am trying to think why it would be vital to be able to locate a landing light switch by feel alone; given that the landing lights will normally be put on/off passing FL100, or before releasing the parking brake on take-off, so not normally a critical situation.

What emergency would need locating the landing light switches by feel ? If the cockpit was full of smoke perhaps?