13th Apr 2001, 00:08

While any reasonable person would have taken the obvious for granted, the TWA employees who took an early-out - with full pass privileges - got the shaft. According to American, they were not regarded as retirees and the bankrupcy judge voided the contract giving them pass privileges.

The former TWA pilots must be impressed, by now.

I guess it's not child molestation; it's child 'love.' All in the verbiage - what crime?

13th Apr 2001, 00:38
Well, I wish I had passes on the airlines that bought my bankrupt employers' assets but I hate to tell you that sometimes it just doesn't work that way...

Maybe TWA will honor the early out pass privileges but AA sure doesn't have to according to the bankruptcy court. I've been down this road myself, glad someone got something out of the bankruptcies even if I came up pretty empty handed. All of these "entitlements" go out the window when the company folds. TWA employees are quite lucky compared to those of some of the other failed carriers and I think they know it.

15th Apr 2001, 19:00

Supposedly, AMR found some loopholes in the contrtacts of active pilots and canned them arbitrarily. As nearly as I can tell, they are former Ozark types being haunted by some fine print.

I'm awaiting details, but it appears that the reports are correct.

The following E-mail was forwarded to me:

"Dear Editor,

Yes it's absolutely true. Don Carty was made aware of the situation by Capt Bob Pastore-our ALPA MEC Chairman- at the closing ceremonies. One of our pilots was met at the gate as he taxied in, ordered to surrender his i.d. card, and escorted off the property. He was Capt Micharl Horan, an instructor pilot on the DC-9 at St.Louis. Another got his letter upon returning from a vacation in Aruba. That was Capt. David Mangold, formerly of Ozark Airlines. The others are 767 F/O Christopher LaVelle, 727 F/E Susan Smith, and MD80 F/O Christopher Bunsey.

You can confirm the facts and get phone numbers from XXX - e-mail XXX Capt XXX is setting up a fund for the five, since they are off the payroll during their appeal. Thanks for any help that you can give. All of these people were given no notice, and no chance to give explanations. Indeed, TWA management was not even given information for the rationale of their termination. I believe that there are an additional 63 other TWA employees who have been removed from employment from TWA LLC."

The earlier addressed 'retirees' reported as losing their travel benefits supposedly carried ID cards, specifying them as "RETIREE." Despite the language nit-picking by AMR on the 'early-out' status, I think the intent of TWA and the affected people is quite clear.

In any case, it appears that something is badly wrong.

As soon as I get more, I'll post it. The central source of this information is unavailable for a few days.

"Dallas Dude," do you have anything on this???

15th Apr 2001, 22:16
Welcome to the "Happy world of AMR and American Airlines".

Know you all know what we employees have to go through on a daily basis with this company. This stuff does not surprise me at all!!!

American Airlnes

16th Apr 2001, 06:21
My understanding is that those that were previously terminated by AA (to include the Eagles) would not be granted employement with AA post merger.

After Aubern Calloway over at FEDEX (terminated by Tigers, Hired by fedex, take an axe to the crew of the DC10 in flight) I can atleast see their point even if I don't agree with it.

Quitting eagle in bad standing 15 years ago can really come back to haunt you in the future. Moral of the story, always give 2 weeks notice.


17th Apr 2001, 00:11

Senator McCain:

From all indications it appears that something is radically wrong in the whole TWA-AMR affair.

1. Why does AMR get away with proposing that TWA file Chapter 11, in concert with a buyout proposal? It was my impression that the U.S. laws were changed as a result of the Lorenzo filings to preclude an obvious prostitution of the law. Is the law that selective? If it is, Americans must ask, "What law?? There is none."

2. With respect to the retirees (or early out personnel), those individuals had a valid and reasonable contract with TWA, which can't cost AMR a dime to honor.

3. With respect to the TWA employees being terminated as an automatic and selective provision of the bankrupcy action, where is the justice expected from a court of the United States of America?

I encourage you to substitute the name of someone you love for the names of those affected. Does that strike you as just, equitable or morally acceptable? Is that the morality which you represent as a U.S. Senator?

This action represents the precursor to your treatment in the Hanoi Hilton. Please represent the voters, as provided by law, not big business.

Yours truly,

[This message has been edited by SKYDRIFTER (edited 16 April 2001).]

dallas dude
17th Apr 2001, 10:09

Wino's response is accurate. Seven former AMR employees who quit without giving any notice period and are being "re-paid" by AMR for this alleged misdeed.

I've heard some details but it wouldn't be fair to those involved to air them here.

I suspect APA/ALPA will at least talk to these folks to get their side of the story before figuring out how to help them (if it's at all possible).

If TWA folks think APA is the "enemy" they're in for a surprise.


17th Apr 2001, 21:01

In the nefarious scheme of things, it appears that American used an "Evil Empire" tactic, by slipping the economic contents of TWA into an intermediate corporation - LLC = "Limited Liability Corporation" (that's what a corporation IS for God's sake!).

In that intermediate stage it's argued that TWA, per se, has ceased to exist; the dirty work will be done there. When the 'merger' is complete, American is postured to argue that it didn't happen on their watch, as TWA managers were in position during that
transition phase. Talk about programmed damage control, WOW!

Hitler's propaganda machine is alive and well, with major enhancements.

Logic and debate aside, there are obviously some terribly ammoral things going down which are nothing less than revolting.

Beyond the ammorality, we may be certain that at least one accident / disaster is in the making.

Here's hoping the American unions will intervene, just for the sake of safety.

dallas dude
17th Apr 2001, 21:04

It's equally important for the TWA folks to get behind APA too.

When they become a full part of AA in Jan 2002, they'll be expected to resign from ALPA and join APA.

We'll need to present a united front to AMR and this can't be done with two unions representing our pilots.

AMR will try to play one group against the other and there'll only be one winner (after AMR that is!).

14-15000 APA members will achieve much more when speaking clearly with one voice.


17th Apr 2001, 21:46

I can't agree with you more. My fear is that the seniority tribalism will minimize the needed effort. I wish all the best of luck. I hope professionalism will be at the forefront, separated from all other issues. It has to be that way.

Pray for that as the reality.

18th Apr 2001, 00:28
>>After Aubern Calloway over at FEDEX (terminated by Tigers, Hired by fedex, take an axe to the crew of the DC10 in flight) I can atleast see their point even if I don't agree with it.<<

Auburn wasn't terminated by FedEx until after he "axed the captain" for a jumpseat. He did falsify his employment record about his past in the Navy and at Tigers and had a hearing scheduled. After a commuter crash a few years ago employers are required to research employment backgrounds more thoroughly.

>>Quitting eagle in bad standing 15 years ago can really come back to haunt you in the future. Moral of the story, always give 2 weeks notice.<<

Yep, you sure don't want to burn bridges in this business...

Although TWA was sold as a going concern, the fact that it was brought back into bankruptcy gives the debtor in possession, the buyer and the judge a lot of discretionary power when it comes to employing TWA's workers at AA.

>>When they become a full part of AA in Jan 2002, they'll be expected to resign from ALPA and join APA.<<

Well, I wouldn't resign too quickly, APA might well fold under the weight of the $45.5 million fine according to several published reports and the AA pilots may be headed back to ALPA...