A Level need become NATS-ATC?

[niranjshan]

Hi Friends!

I'm new here i don't know is this correct section post this question. is there any wrong please forgive me. and i study in German Language, i am now learning english so please forget any mistakes and forgive http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.pprune.org/get/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm Niranjan from Germany. i would like to become a AT ground controller. I alredy know about this course but in Germany they asking A/L in here NATS there are not asking anythink about A Level. I'm still confusing if i need to study ATC i need A Level? or O/L qualification enough for this course?

When i search in internet i found a information about this course. There is they asking A Level also. http://www.raes.org.uk/raes/careers/ATC04.pdf

Please friends, here lots of ppl know about NATS please help me.


Thank you.

[GavReal]

Hi,

NATS no longer have a requirement for A Levels for there trainee ATCO positions.

According to the website, theY require five GCSE's at C and above. And obviously the passing of the selection tests and interviews to be accepted!!

NATS new wannabe ATCO website will tell all in more detail -

Welcome to NATS - Jobs and careers at NATS (http://atcocareers.co.uk/index.html)

Hope that helps - good luck with the application, I'm at stage one for the second year now!

GavReal

[chevvron]

Shows you how standards have dropped. When I joined it was:-
Direct entrant ATCO Cadet - 5 x GCE's of which two must be 'A' level preferably maths and english
ATCA to ATCO Cadet - 5 'O' levels plus one 'A' level plus one year as an ATCA (ATSA nowadays)
or - 5 'O' levels and two years ATCA/ATSA

[paperclip810]

Chevvron,

Entry requirements may have dropped, but I don't think you can say that standards have dropped purely based upon the qualifications cadets have. My qualifications are well above even your earlier entry requirements, but that provides no guarantee that I'll do well at the college! Maybe NATS have realised that academic performance in A-levels or GSCEs doesn't correlate with ATCO performance? Until ATC A-levels or degrees are offered at schools/colleges/universities, I don't think it really matters what grades or certificates you have.

[ZOOKER]

paperclip.
The qualification requirements outlined by chevvron lead, allegedly, to validation rates of around 90% per course, (and no 'cubes').
Interestingly, universities recruiting for subjects such as medicine, law and veterinary science are, as far as I am aware, not lowering their entry requirements.

[Mr_Grubby]

Chevvron.

I agree with paperclip810.

I don't think you can say that standards have dropped purely based upon the qualifications students have. When I joined in Jan ’70 I had only 4 poor grade CSE’s. Remember those ? they were the poor mans GCE. I did three years as an ATCA, got a PPL and was promoted to Cadet.

The last five years of my otherwise lackluster career in ATC was spent in the Training Section of Terminal Control at West Drayton. I dealt with many students all with varying qualifications. Some were obviously very clever with a degree in some science subject. But put these clever people in front of a radar tube in the simulator and some of them hadn’t a clue.

It’s more about aptitude than academic qualifications.

C.

[pugwash4x4]

Have no idea if entry level requirements have dropped off or not, but everyone i spoke to at Stage 2 tests had a good degree which makes GCSEs and Entry level requirements pretty irrelevant.

[GOLF_BRAVO_ZULU]

chevron. They do have a point. I joined with 7 “O”s with 2 science “A”s and got all round big percentages on the Licence and Aerodrome papers (and oral). It certainly didn’t make me a star of the swivel chair and electric hat, though. :ouch:

[anotherthing]

Zooker,

I think the 90% pass rate you refer to had more to do with the time spent as an ATCA (as was) and the extended cadet course with the flying training, visits to units to see all disciplines of ATC etc, rather than the education requirements.

[chevvron]

Mr Grubby, what you say merely confirms what I've always said; people with degrees have the wrong sort of mindset for ATC (mostly!)
Everyone else: I don't doubt that academic qualifications really don't matter, it's aptitude that counts. I know a FISO (Aerodrome) who was absolutely ace and would have made a superb ATCO, but he only had 2 'O' levels so couldn't even be an ATSA with NATS!
But with all the aptitude testing and interviews we still (well not me any more but my old unit) get people who'll never validate in a month of sundays despite having high percentage passes in all the tests, so I reckon it all goes back to selecting the wrong ones in the first place.

[ZOOKER]

anotherthing,
you could well be right! After all, few universities are reducing their course lengths. Were the 'cadet' courses "extended", or simply the standard that was required?
Maybe I'm just a tad suspicious of 'Psychometric Testing".

[cottam approach]

ZOOKER,
Actually the educational requirements have changed somewhat for potential medicine students. Many universities will now accept a number of students who do not have the required educational certification but who have the required personal attributes. If a field as traditional as medicine has identified that qualifications are not neccessarily the only barometer for identifying suitable candidates there really must be something to it. I think there are too many variables between individuals to right someone off purely for lack of academics. Obviously it has it's advantages,it is a very crude means of elimination of great numbers of applicants, but by being too black and white you risk missing out on some highly suitable people.

[niranjshan]

Thanks Friends.


I've got 7A, 2B, C in my GCSEs, i think it's enought to apply NATS. lot of people says ATC entrance exam hard for everyone but i don't know how hard it is.


Here lots of people work with NATS, please tell me what kind of book will help entrance exam? if you have any Books please tell me, it will help for the entrance exam.

again thanks a lot friends for your all information about NATS.

[sinky]

there is a swiss website that allows you to practice the entrance tests free. although its in german, french and italian.

[Loxley]

I had 11 GCSEs and 4 A-Levels when I joined NATS and I'll admit I struggled a little bit at the college.

I remember at my careers day at School an ATCO came and I was speaking to him about the entry requirements. He said that they preferred people straight from school rather than university because, 'university graduates tend to solve problems by sitting down in a circle on beanbags drinking cups of tea discussing the problem'. :8

The inferrence being, I guess, that straight from school you're a 'rough diamond' easier to be trained into an ATCO mindset.

[chevvron]

Yeah well I found ex university people tended to question almost everything they were told rather than accept the fact that their OJTI was experienced and knew what they were doing. I got so fed up of them saying 'at the college we were taught xxxxx' and me replying 'that was the college, this is the real world' that I gave up OJT. Plus many of them knew nothing about aviation let alone ATC before entering training and weren't really 'into' the task.

[ZOOKER]

"University graduates tend to solve problems by sitting down in a circle on beanbags drinking cups of tea discussing the problem"
Ideal candidates for Shanwick OACC then! :E

[Spitoon]

...them saying 'at the college we were taught xxxxx' and me replying 'that was the college, this is the real world'...Does that sort of thing still go on? I remember speaking with someone high up in NATS years ago saying that the transition from college to unit was now seamless.

But you can't put all the blame on trainees. Even if they don't happen to be enthusiasts, the training should prepare them to do the dob. If they're told something at the college it's not unreasonable that they expect it to be true in the real world. I guess the problem arises when a trainee doesn't have the ability to be flexible and adapt to the new information - but then, that's a fairly key ability that a successful controller needs to have.

[9th Dan Vectors]

Inherent aptitude for the job is the overriding requirement to be a good ATCO. This aptitude is difficult to describe and must be difficult to test recruitment wise. When I went through, it was the checking tests, cubes etc and also keeping numbers apart on a screen (by making the least amount of numbers disappear).

Academic qualifications do not really influence whether or not you'll make a good controller. It may help with bookwork or study techniques but this isn't as important as things such as spatial-temporal reasoning, ability to assimilate data quickly without error and be able to this under pressure.

However, as a graduate, I get annoyed with people suggesting that those well qualified can't hack it.

From the previous posts, I think it would be safe to say there is no evidence to suggest a link between academic ability and controller ability.

[sinky]

i was just wondering do NATS actually ask to see your qualifications at any point or do they concentrate on seeing how you do at the tests?