View Full Version : Area vs aerodrome
What, in your opinion, makes one better over the other?
Also, how many people are employed at Prestwick and Swanwick?
paperclip810
14th Jul 2009, 15:11
DIAF,
Don't know the stats for employment at Prestwick and Swanwick, but the Area/Aerodrome battle has been fought before - just use the search function to see what people have said in the past...
I always forget the search function. Sorry about that.
Glamdring
14th Jul 2009, 15:26
But to summarise, Aerodrome is better :ok:
goatface
14th Jul 2009, 15:32
Area pays more, but it's the same thing every day, by no means as much variety as ADC where you see the aircraft and get to appreciate more readily why things go wrong when they do.
Each to their own, there are job specific skills in both trades which are not easily transferable to the other, it's only those who have done both who would be able to appreciate the fine dividing line.
For me, it's ADC every time, area is a dark art practiced by those who are paid a lot but only allowed to emerge from the depths for a short while every month or so - even then they are hung upside down in their wardrobes each night.:p
Blockla
14th Jul 2009, 17:05
Area pays moreWhere you work maybe...
Standard Noise
14th Jul 2009, 18:54
Ah but Swanwick and Prestwick aren't half as nice as Ireland.
LEGAL TENDER
14th Jul 2009, 19:05
What is an "Aerodrome" anyway ?
Is it the same as "airport" ?
Ppdude
14th Jul 2009, 21:02
wherever you go it will be boring after a couple of years, same as the rest of us. Area pays more, aerodrome has nicer view.
Depends which one rocks your boat
goatface
15th Jul 2009, 10:09
wherever you go it will be boring after a couple of years, same as the rest of us.
I've been in the job for around 25 years, very rarely, if ever could I describe any day as boring.
It's the best job in the world as far as I'm concerned (although I've never done area), no two days are the same and you never stop learning.
How is the Gibraltar airport? What are the odds of getting placed there?
anotherthing
15th Jul 2009, 15:25
Goatface:
Area pays more, but it's the same thing every day, by no means as much variety as ADC where you see the aircraft and get to appreciate more readily why things go wrong when they do. Each to their own, there are job specific skills in both trades which are not easily transferable to the other, it's only those who have done both who would be able to appreciate the fine dividing line.
and It's the best job in the world as far as I'm concerned (although I've never done area)
So your statement that Area is the same thing every days comes from what experience?
DIAF
I've done Area, Tower and Approach and each has its merits. Currently in TC and can honestly say that when it kicks off, it is more challenging than any other controlling I have done. The fact is all ATC jobs have quiet and frenetic times, I think anyone with the mindset to be an ATCO would enjoy any discipline.
Would I change unit now? No way, I enjoy it too much.
However would I be gutted if I was moved to a Tower or Approach unit? Again, nope, because they would also be fun.
If, as it sounds, you are just embarking on ATC and it is with NATS, don't sweat about the discipline you will end up with - just concentrate on getting out of the college and valid at a unit, any unit.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
15th Jul 2009, 15:35
I went into ATC totally open-minded. I started at an airport where the ATC Unit inclided TWR. APC and Area. Fully-trained ATCOs did all three. I then went to another airfield and did TWR and APC..... another which did TWR, APC and RAD and loved all of them.
Don't worry about the money aspects; the #1 important thing is to be happy in your work..
Good luck.
controller friendly
15th Jul 2009, 21:18
As an airport controller I would say area...!!! Most of the people I work with prefer to do radar than tower..!!
In the area world in the uk at the moment there is no competition so job security is better..promotion prospects are better..you aren't held to ransom because the contract is up for renewal soon..lots of things..!!:ugh:
Why o why did they never build the berc (belfast en route centre)?!?!;););)
Standard Noise
16th Jul 2009, 10:23
I thought you had a few bercs at Muckamore anyway.:}
CJayne
16th Jul 2009, 11:53
Hi DIAF,
Just going to college myself, but thought I'd give you my thoughts on your post too!
When asked by HR which course I would like to start on, I chose Area. I chose Area mainly because I was under the impression that Aerodrome places were few and far between, but mainly because the likelyhood of ending up at Swanwick seemed far greater, what with the MACC moving to Prestwick etc. Swanwick isn't far from where I live, fit in with family arrangements (I have two children, one of which is at school - didn't want to rock the boat etc) plus offered the greatest job security...obviously subject to validation! However, NATS then threw a spanner in the works...
They called me and transferred me onto Aerodrome.
I was elated! By chance they'd moved me onto the course I'd in my heart wanted all along. I was being careful and thinking of my family's future when choosing Area, but now I found myself on Aerodrome. So yeah, job security has waned a bit (only because of the fact that the Aerdromes are contracted...no competition for Area as stated by another poster), money might well be lower, the potential of having to move has greatly increased but the course is shorter with a higher pass rate and I'd be validated quicker. I have the distinct feeling I will probably enjoy it more because it's what I wanted from the start.
However, the biggest thing is that whilst I was pleased with being moved to Aerodrome I would have been just as pleased as staying on the Area course too because either way I get to control air traffic and that is why I applied for the job in the first place.
Glamdring
16th Jul 2009, 16:48
Good post CJayne, that's just the attitude to have. Look on the bright side, Aberdeen isn't that far away :ok:
What's this about job security? I was under the impression both area and aerodrome had the same job security.
cottam approach
16th Jul 2009, 17:46
I know it was intended tongue in cheek but aren't Aberdeen already up to the hilt with trainees for the foreseeable?
paperclip810
16th Jul 2009, 18:13
As for job security, what the other posters mean is that there's no chance of some of the UK airspace becoming operated by another company - it will always be NATS (or another organisation) that controls all of UK airspace, so once you're in, you're sorted.
However, for aerodromes, the control function is contracted - if NATS loses the contract, then you might lose your job. It's not bothering me too much, and I'm on the Aerodrome course with CJayne too, but something to think about.
Traffic is...
16th Jul 2009, 19:38
Even though the ATC service is contracted out to NATS at many airports, you would in all likelihood still have a job even if NATS lost the contract. The airport would still need its controllers, so you'd still be employed. Whether the terms and conditions would be the same in the long run is another story....
controller friendly
16th Jul 2009, 23:00
Exactly..!! I'd prefer to continue working for Nats....!! As for other uk airspace stayin with Nats..check my last post..I said at the moment..ever heard of a Functional Airspace Block (FAB)..??? Nothing is completely secure any more..!! Sorry..!!!:{
anotherthing
17th Jul 2009, 10:36
I would like to say that the day the UK, an island nation, gives away it's sovereign airspace will never happen... however given the fact that it is in the hands of lying, duplicitous politicians, I may well be wrong.
As an aside, at a recent Union conference it was stated by one person, rather high up, that the UK/Irish FAB was a waste of time... can't be bothered to hunt for the quote, but it is somewhere within the pages of ATCOs.co.uk - (http://atcos.co.uk)
I've been told recently that the Aerodrome/Approach simulator course is a bit easier and has higher success rate of completion as opposed to Area, is that true ?
paperclip810
11th Oct 2009, 16:02
The Aerodrome and Approach courses are certainly shorter than Area, but I think it's hard to say which is easier. Area requires verbatim learning of a fair about of material, and Aero doesn't - whether that makes it easier is up to you.
The Aero course probably does usually seem to have a higher pass rate although not for all recent courses - and remember, it's not all about passing at the college as you still need to validate at your unit. I have no idea about pass rates between Area and Aero units.
Don't pick one course over another because it might be easier - it's hard whatever route you take. Instead, pick the one you most want to do - that enjoyment should hopefully get you through.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR
11th Oct 2009, 17:33
Heed the words from paperclip... Everything is difficult until you can do it. Some people who "walk" Area might find Aerodrome/Approach very difficult. The opposite applies too.
Good luck..
Mr_Grubby
11th Oct 2009, 17:43
Wise words, as usual, from the Heathrow Director.
There are no easy ways or short cuts.
C.
Thanks guys :ok: obviously it won't be easy either way, I just want to be sure to make the right choice.
Edit: As to one being easier than the other, I didn't mean in theory but during the simulator exercise part.
paperclip810
11th Oct 2009, 19:12
If you mean the simulator and the real controlling that comes later on, it's a lot to do with your own skills - each type of controlling requires different skills although it's hard to say if you have them or not until you try. Don't separate out the theory and the sim too much - they go hand in hand and if you don't know your theory, it doesn't matter how good your R/T is, you still won't be able to tell the planes what to do!
G09
You don`t really make a choice as such.....you express a preference, then someone else decides. Don`t sulk if it doesn`t go your way.
Standard Noise
11th Oct 2009, 19:24
Having done 5 rating courses, I can say that they are all much of a muchness with regard to difficulty. As for live training that's prolly a different matter. I went APP after the courses and thought it was hard enough but my friends in Area seemed (from my perspective) to have it a bit tougher than I did.
each type of controlling requires different skills although it's hard to say if you have them or not until you try
That's exactly the thing I'm trying to figure out! Is there maybe some kind of PC game/simulator that could help you understand at least a little bit which one would fit you better ?
Loki, Standard Noise
good points, I know it seems stupid to bother with such a thing in the first place, especially when the decision is not up to me anyway
LEGAL TENDER
11th Oct 2009, 20:22
Oh c'mon, it's fairly obvious to me that Area training is harder than Aerodrome / Approach training. (I speak having trained as TWR/APR but it looked fairly obvious by watching some of the Area runs of my fellow college mates, and their amount of bookwork, that they had the tougher job).
It's not uncommon for Area students to fail (either at college or real word sectors) and then retrain on Aerodrome / Approach, and succeed. It doesn't quite work like that the other way round !!
Lastly, look at the average validation times of the average Aerodrome sector against the average area sector. There is a remarkable difference. There must be a reason for it !!!
(I emphasise on the word average as there are some very complex TWR and Approach sectors as well !)
BigDaddyBoxMeal
11th Oct 2009, 20:57
Oh c'mon, it's fairly obvious to me that Area training is harder than Aerodrome / Approach training. (I speak having trained as TWR/APR but it looked fairly obvious by watching some of the Area runs of my fellow college mates, and their amount of bookwork, that they had the tougher job).
Who's side are you on?! As a TWR and APC trainee, then watching an Area sim run would of course look absolutely baffling to you - its not the skill set you were trained in! Had you been trained with the Area mindset from the moment you arrived at Hurn it would be a different matter.
Bookwork? Of course Area guys have it tougher? Thats because they have to learn pages and pages of verbatim text. Lord knows why, have NATS proves this helps through the career?
As already alluded TWR/APC are shorter. They have been cropped in recent years much more than the area courses. This does mean however they are far more intense, especially Approach, when you are doing more sim runs in a day than your area counterparts will do in a week!
It can all get even stranger when you arrive at a unit. You could walk into 3 different approach sectors and barely recognise it as the same job! Of course the same could be said for Area sectors. But the interpretation of "Approach Radar" ticket is becming broader and broader!
Arkady
12th Oct 2009, 15:20
There is no objective way to decide this, so few controllers have experience of both and none have recent experience.
In my opinion (I stress opinion) Area is harder to learn because it is the least visual of the disciplines (this is not the same as saying it is harder to do, in fact once you are through the learning stage it is probably a bit easier because it is generally more predictable). You cannot gain "the picture" from an Area Radar, you need to build it from the strips or all singing all dancing electronic tools. In a tower "the picture" is right there, assimilated with a glance. I cannot comment on Area v's Approach with much authority but approach radar controller use their radars far more than area controllers do so I suspect, again, they get more of their information visually.
This is a sweeping generalization but I think it largely addresses what LEGAL TENDER says. None of the discilplines are more or less skillful than the others but Area requires skills that are less intuitive and therefore harder to learn, taking longer to aquire.
Reading all of the posts, it's an interesting debate - I'm training in area and we are going to sit in on an aerodrome 'run' - I bet I am baffled senseless watching it, yet if aerodrome sat in on one of our 'runs' they would be too. It's what discipline that you train in that you'll always understand\get the easiest - as for the difference in courses, area does have too many pages of MATS Pt 1 to learn verbatim and aerodrome has none, but i'm definately not going to say the aerodrome course is easier, at the end of the day, everyone is different and learns in different ways and if you pass the college and validate in any discipline, you'll be happy! :ok: