Air Services Australia versus NATS

[1208PUNK]

Hi I have just completed Air Services Australia recruitment process and thankfully I have been successful and placed on the order or merit scheme. Can anybody tell me if they have experience of this? You are pulled off it into the ATC trainee school but as to when they have not informed me.

If anybody wants help with the processes/stages involved and questions asked at general interview/ behavioural interview stage please reply with your email as I have a huge amount of information and detail saved with regards to the processes I was involved in both in the UK and Australia!

Whilst I was awaiting my decision on this I came back to the UK and tried out for NATS though I failed at the stage just before the interview where you completed computer testing and deal with flight progress strips etc? I was so confident I had passed this stage (out of all ATC tests I have done) I even begun preparing for the interview then to my dissappointment I got news I had failed. I requested some feedback but NATS have since not replied to any of my emails....my friend also who works in London for NATS has given me the general feeling that NATS is not exactly the best company in the world of ATC management to work for-can others explain why?

Anyway I hope I am making the correct decision heading out to Australia to begin a career in ATC (provided I pass the traineeship)!

Also can anybody on this forum tell me if ATC assistants exist ie those who assist ATCs in their normal operations?

Thanks

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<my friend also who works in London for NATS has given me the general feeling that NATS is not exactly the best company in the world of ATC management to work for-can others explain why?>>

I've never worked for an outfit yet that some people were not dissatisfied with. I spent 31 years with NATS, and its predecessors, and was wholly satisfied. I had more time off than those in any other job you can think of and retired at 58 with a good pension too.

Now I know that things have changed, just as they have with every business. Pension schemes are getting hammered, staff levels being reduced, etc, etc. Nevertheless, I still think you'd be pushed to find a better employer in the UK for ATC work. I never got involved with any "extraneous" work like committee meetings, union stuff, etc., and never had any desire to get into management. I went to work, talked to the jets and went home... but then my priority has always been to get home! It suited me fine.

Good luck, but I think you're nuts to want to leave Oz!!

[cdtaylor_nats]

ATC Assistants do exist, but in ever decreasing numbers.

[gemmy]

1208PUNK,

If you check out the thread under Air Services Australia Testing (a little further down the forum page), you'll see that a number of us have also made it through onto the Order of Merit list. However this does not mean we will be offered a spot on a course.

There could be say 40 people on the order of merit list & only 12 spots available, & therefore the top 12 on that order of merit list will get a spot.

Saying this, there could be another course or 2 scheduled for later in the year, however we are only on the Order of Merit list for 12mths, then we have to start from scratch again.. :-(

Anyway, congrats on making it this far & here's hoping we all get a spot on the first available course :-)

[Loxley]

Having worked outside NATS (as an ATCO) for 3 years before joining NATS through the fabled Experience Controller recruitment (quite a feat I hasten to add, having seen how inept NATS HR truly are), I have found that the people who whinge the loudest about how bad NATS actually is are the people who have only ever worked for NATS.

I always say to people who moan about how grim days are with NATS to go and experience life away from NATS. They'll soon be knocking on the door begging for their job back.

There's no doubt that some aspects of working for NATS have gone downhill in the last few years.

But they are still far and away the best company, in the UK at least, to work for.

The last outfit I worked at expected you to come in on your third day off of the cycle once a month.

Payrise every year was 2% without fail.

No protection for Loss of Licence.

No extra payments for OJTI.

No extra payments for shift work.

No early-go's (which do still happen in NATS despite people's claims to the contrary, even at Swanwick).

Working 2 hours on 30mins off, even on the busiest Summer days.

No extra payments for overtime, you just took your day off at another time.

No TOIL.

NATS aren't perfect for sure, but they are definately one of the best ATCO employers in the UK. And from reading other threads on here about the Middle East, Australia, New Zealand and the US I would suggest that they are one of the better employers of ATCOs in the world as well.

:ok:

[1208PUNK]

hey people thanks for the replies....im not saying NATS is bad at all so for those who work for them i apologise (im actually jealous). from my experience over in the NATS centre the people who worked there were extremely friendly and people i could easily get on with. i just keep hearing various things with regards to air traffic control (various new implements such as mode s and IFACTS that are not being welcomed and are felt to be of no worth) and that the atc recruitment process isnt what it used to be...some people who currently work for them even informed me that people are still being tested (despite no positions being available) and failed no matter how they performed just to keep people interested in the whole process should new positions become available. i myself am from the far north of ireland and it cost me the best part of £500 to travel to glasgow for one set of tests and then swanick in the south for the 2nd set of tests. to be failed when i thought i had passed comfortably was a shock but at least if i was given some feedback i feel i could let it go...the fact i was just given email sorry you have not reached the next stage is extremely dissappointing given the costs to myself to attend the tests. just a simple pass score and my score in relation to this would have sufficed.

anyway this was my backup plan...i have since passed all air services australia tests and been placed on the order of merit so i hope the year i have spent doing various tests in various countries has been worthwhile!

[1208PUNK]

yeah im short on knowledge about the order of merit and my circumstances are a bit different to most as im actually irish with australian permanent residency gained through accounting. do you know roughfully how many people who are on the OOM get told the year has expired and they have to go through it all again....that seems very very unfair to me? i am currently in ireland and obviously am looking to head back out to australia soon but dont want to be hanging about waiting and waiting for the call (that may never come) as work is scarce at the minute out there hence why i came back home in march for a career break. if i headed back out there and waited about a year and didnt get on it would be heart-breaking therefore i think my only option is to call them and explain either i get an offer or to take me off it. i cannot waste two years of my life on this to then be back at square one when i could have been persuing other alternatives! if you hear anything let me know and i will do so likewise THANKS Jon

[Avoiding_Action]

What's wrong with Mode S? I find it a valuable piece of kit.

[GWYN]

Hi Punk

I have a couple of comments to add:

I have not worked for NATS but have worked fairly closely with them. I can confidently say that you are unlikely to find a worse organisation to work for than AirServices Australia. Their treatment of staff and industrial relations are appalling and you only need to read some of the threads on here to establish in what low esteem they are held by their employees. The only thing that makes working for them in any way whatever worthwhile is the job itself and the environment / lifestyle.

Second, while not wishing exactly to contradict, Loxley is likely to be wrong. It would not be the top 12 from the Order of Merit that get the slot, it will be the 12 whose brother / father / sister / wife etc is already a controller with AsA, or who ´knows´someone. That is how it works. Nepotism is rife.

Consider it carefully!