I want to speak to a supervisor - who do you think we are??

[wanderingdon]

Just heard a story from a colleague of mine that I've never heard happen before. I've only been valid a few years but just think its odd

Apparently, a bizjet into EGNS crusing at FL400 took exception at being asked to descend to FL280 by TNT (this was to keep him in out of London airspace later on down the line).

The pilot wanted to speak to a supervisor on the RT there and then as apparently very concerned about his carbon footprint!! (pot and kettle as in a private jet but anyhow!) and didn't want early descent.

Just seems to be very unprofessional behaviour demanding a supervisor (we're not a call centre!) on a busy frequency. I know that these days you guys all want to keep high as long as poss but sadly not possible all the time. never before have I heard of a pilot questioning air traffic so much.

Just wondering what peoples opinions on this are

[eagleflyer]

after landing for sure...because I would want him to call after landing ASAP!

[salsaboy]

I think any issue which doesn't pose an immediate threat to flight safety (which unless he was VERY critical on his fuel uplift this WASN'T!!!) is a matter for discussion on a landline after landing.

This pilot clearly needs to visit Swanwick... I have learnt alot from my ATC visits with regards to why I am asked to do various things in the air. It makes it alot less stressful when you know the reasons and also enables me to explain to the person I am flying with if they seem confused.

I hope this is pointed out to him/her before he/she clogs up a busy frequency at a more critical time.

duh

[5milesbaby]

Hmmmm, he hasn't recently moved jobs from a famous Turkey Farmer's outfit has he? Had a few problems with that one about 5 years ago, after a few attempts was firmly put back into reality........

[ZOOKER]

What's this?
A private business-jet, inbound, to that famous t*rd-shaped tax-haven north of LYNAS, whinging?
I suspect the voiced-concerns were more likely financial than environmental. :E

[pugwash4x4]

what would have happened if the pilot had refused to follow the instruction?

[wanderingdon]

what would have happened if the pilot had refused to follow the instruction?


Would not happen. No matter how unhappy pilots are with instructions they will not refuse unless there is a very very (safety of aircraft etc) good reason not to.

With the world as it is I believe any pilot refusing air traffic commands (assuming under a control service) would find himself/ herself in a whole lot of trouble with a few of our majestys finest as company until they landed.

Happy to be corrected if wrong though

[Jagohu]

Not working there, but quite likely he wouldn't have been able to descend due to too much of crossing/opposite traffic - so he would have just kept flying and flying and flying...

[ayrprox]

he would probably have had a quick visit from 2 lots of boys in blue. the first lot, with faster a/c than him, and the 2nd lot on the ground with rather ferrocious dogs, to discuss his future conformance with atc instructions.
i'm all for the planet, but i'd prefer not to cause chaos in the skies to allow one a/c a continuous descent. i hope this pilot was told politely that if he didnt follow legitimate atc instructions in future , that his presence within uk airspace in the future would have to be brought into question

[criss]

what would have happened if the pilot had refused to follow the instruction?

To quote a phrase from long gone computer game "Warlord" - "It would be a complete and utter suicide".

[SPRATLEVEL300]

On a similar thread I have had one of the German carriers demand to know why he is on a heading across the N. SEA inbound to EGCC follwed by him calling out all the traffic he can see on his TCAS. Not an isolated case either with this carrier

[055166k]

Wouldn't be a problem at LACC Swanwick......almost a third of the controlling is done by ATCO1 Supervisors working out-of-grade, having a bit of fun on the "tubes". It's costing absolutely £millions every year......but worry not.....the airlines pay! Then of course, we need lots of extra ATCO 1's to cover for the 1's whilst they are not supervising.

[250 kts]

almost a third of the controlling is done by ATCO1 Supervisors working out-of-grade, having a bit of fun on the "tubes".

Totally inaccurate figure, but I guess that's why it's a rumour board.

[CDN_ATC]

Here in Canada anyway I'd tell him the phone number to the Centre is in the Flight Supplement, call when you get on the ground if you have an issue.

In fact, we use this when pilots muck non pertinent safety things up, and a healthy phone conversation is easier than miles of paper-work, and it keeps the relationship intact as well.

[atco-matic]

Hi,

I wonder if this is the same guy who did a similar thing to me one day whilst flying a business jet? He had a german/swiss/austrian sounding accent if I remember rightly. The route he was flying on to the destination he was going to has a permanent max level restriction of FL290. He called approaching FL290 requesting FL390 so I refused and explained why. He then launched into a tirade at me in a very angry voice on the RT claiming he had flown the same flightplan at the same time yesterday and had been able to climb to FL370. I said i wasn't going to argue with him on the RT and gave the phone number for the supervisors desk. We never heard anything though.

I guess this is another reason for not climbing aircraft above the max permitted level for their destination.:=

[goatface]

Reminds me of a a certain individual who used to fly a "Bootiful" corporate jet whose owner's "Turkey Drummers" were a great success in encouraging the UK to become fat and slovenly.

Whilst transporting the East of England turkey breeder one day, he told LATCC that his passenger was "The Captain of Industry" and demanded a better service.

Very shortly afterwards the "Captain of Industry sucumbed to Bird Fluuuuu and became not very "Bootifuul" to any investor, resulting in the loss of the corporate jet and little or no job for the sanctimonous tosser in his very old jet.
How we wept.......:E

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Goatface.. We got something similar from that Robert Maxwell character. His pilot was forever saying "Do you know who my passenger is" as if a) it was of any importance, and b) as if we cared!!

[goatface]

.........or if the pilot genuinely didn't know who his passenger was and was actually asking for your help....:p:)

[Mr_Grubby]

A few years back I was working on the Flow Regulator position at West Drayton. I issued a slot time to a Lear Jet out of Gatwick. It picked up a considerable delay. French restrictions, too many aircraft etc. etc. The flight was being handled by Gatwick Handling. Their guy was very good. He understood the situation.

Then the pilot came on the phone and started to rant and rave at me. I tried to explain the situation. If I allowed him to take off it was likely that the French would refuse to accept him and would turn his aircraft back. He became quite abusive and asked me if I knew who his passenger was. I didn’t. He said it was Henry Kissinger, then the Secretary of State of the US of A and he had to get to Geneva. I said that he should have applied in advance for ‘Special Flight’ status and then we wouldn’t have this problem. He demanded to speak to my supervisor so I gave him the number to call. He never rang.

His tirade of abuse continued. I eventually terminated the conversation. About ten minutes later, as a result of an aircraft going tech, a slot became available and I could have offered HK an earlier slot. I thought, ‘Why should I ?’ So I rang up DanAir and bought forward one of their departures. Ok, not very professional on my part maybe but it made me feel better.

That evening I watched the TV news. HK got to Geneva in time for his meeting.

C.

[1996]

Funny old thing, the pilot referred to at the start of this thread was given the Sup's phone number but didn't call.