BAW25, departed and left some...

[HeathrowAirport]

I heard something happened after BAW25 departed today off 27L and aircraft were departing from N3 instead of N2W etc..

What exactly happened? If they dumped something surely they returned?

[Rainboe]

I think you should rein your neck in a little. You have identified a known service which means you have fingered a particular crew with what is no more than spotter's imaginings or utter nonsense. You should not identify a particular flight- why not make your question general rather than specific flight related?

I would not be at all happy if you came on here identifying one of my flights. It would not be hard to trace you. I suggest you use this as a learning experience to apply common sense and discretion to your outgoings.

[HeathrowAirport]

Huh - I never went to Heathrow, I was just told by someone that there was something with BAW25 that is BA0025. And that something happened after it departed, Im not pointing fingers at anyone.

"You have identified a known service which means you have fingered a particular crew with what is no more than spotter's imaginings or utter nonsense."

"It would not be hard to trace you."

Trace me for what, Its not illegal to ask a question that what happened after a BA 747 departed 27L now isit? Trace me if you like and take me to Court over this question, the bloody judge will laugth himself to sleep.

I DO NOT SPOT, Its boring. I just have an Intrest in aviation, I dont have a book and go writing every registration that ever entered UK airspace into a book, I just like planes, I just wanted to know what happened becuase I dont know what on earth happened becuase I was busy doing more Lifestyle things.

[Jofm5]

HeathrowAirport.

I think what Rainboe is stating is the fact that you have not only identified the airport and airline but the aircraft itself (from the flight number) and thus the crew operating the flight can be easily identified (I believe he was not saying about identifying you but the crew of the flight in question).

There are many people on here from different walks of life, from cabin crew through to senior managers - if for example a senior manager was reading this and nothing had been reported to him then based upon your assertions a flight crew may be requested for tea (and no biscuits) with the senior management to ascertain the foundations of your rumour. Which if was just a rumour and unfounded could lead to an uncomfortable time for no particular reason.

I dont think Rainboe et al mind divulging information should there be fact behind any of it - thus asking about an incident with a flight at heathrow without the specifics of what you heard will typically be answered by those who know the true score as they will be familiar with the incident and wont need you to tell them the flight in question. Saying you heard XXX happened to YYY is very speculative and alot of the time on the grapevine may be incorrect.

If it is also an incident of any note you may wish to check The Aviation Herald (http://avherald.com/) as typically a factual report will be published there.

Regards,

Jof

[Skipness One Echo]

I DO NOT SPOT, Its boring. I just have an Intrest in aviation

Oi! A little less slagging off of some of the people on here and people might take you more seriously. Last time I checked this "Spotters Corner" thread was full of.......er, spotters!

Boring is looking down on what other people enjoy, just *THINK* before you post please. There are a multiplicity of reasons why a link may have to be closed and aircraft may have to depart from further up a departure runway, bits falling off the previous departing being one of the *LEAST* likely.

[CentreFix25]

Rainboe

What an unnecessary and pointless, aggressive posting which is having a go at a 16 year old kid, on a plane spotters forum.

you have fingered a particular crew If the subsequent aircraft were departing from a different intersection, then i suspect ATC were also aware!

It would not be hard to trace you.Whats this all about!

I suggest you use this as a learning experience to apply common sense and discretion to your outgoings. This is a very hypercritical posting, can I suggest you learn from this. 16 year old plane spotters will post this sort of thing all the time, if you don't like it - don't come to the plane spotters forum!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Heathrow Airport. With respect, Robbie, some of your posts on this forum for professional people are, shall we say, immature. Think before you write - is an aviation professional really going to be interested in this? It's outrageous that you should take Rainboe to task - he is a respected professional pilot.

Aircraft occasionally leave debris on runways, usually bits of rubber, which is why there are frequent runway inspections throughout the day. A) there was nothing too unusual in what you heard and b) rarely a need for the aircraft to return. Part of the runway would have been "closed" to permit an inspection and collection of debris.

[White Hart]

'It's outrageous that you should take Rainboe to task - he is a respected professional pilot.'

what utter bollox! you'll be telling us all next that we shouldn't question your posts either 'cos you're a respected professional ex-ATCO! :rolleyes:

The kid asked a question, thats all. WTFs a forum for if it isn't to ask questions? Some of you really do need to come down off those holier-than-thou pedestals that you spend so long balancing on before you get knocked off.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thank you, White Hart. That was most hurtful.

[Flightmech]

Give the lad a break. He asked a question in the correct part of the forum. God knows the response if he'd asked the same in Rumour & News. Probably been traced and shot.:ugh:

[Avman]

HeathrowAirport, to try and answer your question. It may well be that nothing at all happened to BA025. It may be that during the early part of their roll they saw something (debris, dead bird or birds, in fact anything which constitutes a potential hazzard) and informed ATC after departure (because they wouldn't start yapping to ATC during the actual take-off). This would warrant a runway inspection in the area where the problem was thought to be. It's as simple as that. Nothing unusual for a busy airport. Happens almost every day all around the world.

[HeathrowAirport]

Ok Ill start with an apology to Rainboe if you can accept my apology? I actually did not know what sort of trouble I could have caused the pilots, and I put my hand up that Ive made a mistake by doing so.. But maybe If you could private message me next time, I make a mistake? Becuase I feel like I was told off on a forum, if you get what I mean with thousands of views including the Press that are snooping on here.


But considering there was delays in excess of 40 minutes, surely it was reported but I wont dwell on that, becuase whats said now Ive done it.:suspect:


Avman, I was told fuel, after XX aircraft departed, thats the only reason I asked on here becuase I was little confused as to what happened, if there was fuel hanging around at N2W surely its come from a planes tanks or unless the engine didnt burn the fuel and came out? Like a backfire in a go-kart engine were the fuel burns in the exaust by accident.

I heard N2W and SB1 was closed to departures and there were using N3 and S3 short of 27L, thats all I know, so I thought someone might know on here.

I didnt do this with intent to get some BA crew sacked or anything like that, I just was asking a "Spotters question"

I put my hand up on this one! :)

[apaddyinuk]

Guys just ignore the likes of Rainboe....clearly chips on shoulder or something! Must have been rung up at work for something said on Pprune in the past :} Either that or s/he just doesnt have a life! :ugh:


There is never any kind of need for this sort of belligerence from anyone in any walk of life but alas there are some nasty types in Pprune who seem to thrive off it! Dont let this numpty cause anyone to think twice about posting on Pprune!



But always remember..... DONT FEED THE TROLL!

[Rainboe]

Nobody is asking for any apologies, but one does get fed up seeing the most outrageous queries and claims on here identifying a specific flight. All one wants is a little intelligence, thought and discretion before accusing particular flights of having done something, apparently transgressed or done something accused of as dangerous. I recall accusations that a Gulf 777 was flying extremely low and randomly over the Midlands when no such thing occured. However the date, location and airline was identified and the whole thing was nonsense. This is primarily a Prof Pilot Forum (according to the title). Nobody has the right, even under free speech, to come here making suggestions against flights. Get that right and we will all be happy and get on just fine.

[student88]

I think the way certain members laid into HeathrowAirport was quite embarrassing. The poor lad is only 16, with an obvious keen interest in aviation and to him, was only asking a simple question. At the end of the day anyone could have been at Heathrow watching that aircrafts departure, ranging your average 16 year old closet-plane-spotter to a reporter from The Daily Blurb.

It was a public flight from a civil aerodrome. I'm sure if anything did happen BA's OCC would know about it within seconds. Give the kid a break, you were his age once and probably just as naiieve (sorry HeathrowAirport). An outrageous queery or claim to you may be quite valid and reasonable to him.

H/A, don't apologise, you wouldn't have caused the pilots any trouble at all.

I'm not too bothered if you're a professional and well respected pilot, an ex-ATCO or duty manager at McDonald's, you shouldn't belittle and gang up on a young, possible future member of our industry. We should stick together and encourage eachother - not make one another feel like $hit for asking a harmless question.

[MAN777]

Student 88

Well put !

But I do have to agree that everyone posting anything on these forums should stop and think before pressing the send button. It is a fact that the media do trawl these forums looking for snippets that can be expanded on quiet news days.

I also think its very unlikely that any professional air crew would intentionally cover up or attempt to cover up any incident when air safety is concerned.

[Kinetika]

Dont worry Rainboe. Mr. G. AKA Heathrow Airport is a complete Pain In The Arse on all of the other Forums he frequents too. He once tried to sue a Flight Simmers Virtual Airline because he got booted for being a ****.

Seem's he has a thing with people taking people to court....

K

[Scousespotter]

Mind you ... hand it to the lad ... cycling all that way to LHR on his big brothers BMX bike.

:D

[lurkio]

student88 - if the poor little 16 year old doesn't want to be belittled then he should take himself out of pprune and spotters corner especially if he is going to go round belittling the spotters who frequent this thread.

That is his lesson for today.

[keeprighton1974]

Rainboe - this is an area for the great unwashed who daren't dirty the rumours & news section of the website. If you don't like the people or questions here then maybe you shouldn't come down here into 'Steerage Class'.

I have yet to see a post from Rainboe that shows an ounce of humility.

[smudgethecat]

Get of his case mate, rainboe says at as it is, which is just what is required with some of the numptys who frequent this forum :ok:

[BOAC]

Spectators Balcony (Spotters Corner) If you're not a professional pilot but want to discuss issues about the job, this is the best place to loiter. You won't be moved on by 'security' and there'll be plenty of experts to answer any questions.

4 points from an (ex) mod on this forum.

1) He got the correct forum
2) The mods decide what goes or stays
3) Those who don't like it, bug out!
4) If you feel so strongly that you are risking an apoplexy, use the 'Report this post' icon.

[Kinetika]

BOAC and Student 88

You both make valid points and perhaps Rainboe, Myself and Others were a touch hard on the lad. Have a look through young H.A's thread postings though...

In more than one thread he seems to be trying to come across as an industry professional, a glance at the age indicator dispels that myth. In several others, he openly discusses his 'spotter' like behaviour. Not a problem, if i could have a scanner and one of the pocket transponder decoders where i live without being banged up for 30,000,000 years of hard labour i would.

Where the boy falls over is that he is trying, in many forums, from Virtual Airlines in the Flight Sim world, to Flight Sim add-on manufacturers, to this forum here, all the way through many others like this to be a different person in each.

I would imagine that many here, myself included (for i am a boring spotter / Flight Sim Addict / Computer Geek / Failed Pilot / Wannabe Heavy driver, whatever you wanna label me with) have become extremely fed-up with seeing this kid try and be so many things to so many people that it seems he suffers from some massive split personality disorder... I wouldn't be surprised to see him capitalise on that suggestion next - He was after all going to iminently top himself in a post on a Flight Sim add-on's manufacturers forum with a goodbye cruel world post.

He's an attention seeker, who thrives on starting precisely this type of argument. Albeit, it would seem entirely inadvertently.

I'm sure it's all a part of growing up, but a few hard knocks might help this boy decide which of the many personas he presents is actually him.

True, if we don't like it, we could all shut up, but what of all the great threads in all the great forums in all the world that have been killed because of H.A and others like him, who jump in and knacker it with a stupid, often pointless comment, which, had a millisecond's thought gone into anything before hitting the 'submit post' button, would probably still be getting dragged on with some lively and interesting discussion? Do we just sit back and say 'oh well, another kid butting into the convo - next thread'?

*Gets down off soapbox*

*Gets back onto soapbox*

I don't claim to know everything about everything, but i do like to think every now and again, and at least proof read a post. The art of communicating in written English is dying on its posteria, and if H.A is an example of the future of Aviation. I'll book the cruise now....

*let the flame war commence* :}


K

[BOAC]

All the above, kinetika, but you have a competent and experienced mod looking after this forum.starting precisely this type of argument. - as always, it takes two to Tango.But always remember..... DONT FEED THE TROLL! is excellent advice. As I said, if anyone feels the mod has missed something dreadful, 'Report this Post' is there for just that purpose.

[Rainboe]

This is an aviation forum, not a place for baring one's psche or ripping one's shirt in public, so humility can go where the sun don't shine. Some spotters can make their daft interpretations of what is going on public, but not when they identify specific flights and airlines and crews to an incident that usually has never occured anyway. When that is recognised, we will all be one big happy Pprune family again! Maybe not.

[PA38]

[QUOTE]There are many people on here from different walks of life, from cabin crew through to senior managers - if for example a senior manager was reading this and nothing had been reported to him then based upon your assertions a flight crew may be requested for tea (and no biscuits) with the .[QUOTE]
I work in a Gov dept and I get several complaints per day regarding staff and vehicles, if the person or persons making the complaint don't or won't leave personal details that is where the complaint stops.....
I would not take any notice of rumour web sites, and any management team that would should not be in such a position.
Perhaps in aviation you need kevlar jackets to stop the knives going into your back!!!!

[FlyingVisit]

Well this is extraordinary!!!! Whoever in their right mind would take notice of a RUMOUR?! Or hearsay? Or gossip from a website junkie?

And as for you, Rainboe, if you actually ARE a pilot (after all, we only have YOUR word for it) how would an aircraft be able to cover up a mistake such as this without ATC knowing???????????:eek:

Don't be ridiculous!!!! Are you SURE you're a pilot? You could be imagining all this you know!:8

[Wannabe Flyer]

Wow!

What a barrage of accusations for a curious 16 year old. Have you not forgotten how curious you were at that age?

Just browsed thru some of his posts and to me it looks more like an inquisitive kid who is spending his time in a lets say more productive manner than most of the other 16 year olds who become gang bangers at this age.

This section seems to be more for people who are curious and ask questions for professional pilots to answer or guide. Some of the responses are so harsh it makes me wonder if such short fuses are the norm or just an exception.

Brings back to mind Teneriffe!!!!!!

[White Hart]

'makes me wonder if such short fuses are the norm or just an exception.'

its not about short fuses, but more about self-officious pomposity. not confined to the 'spectators' area, either - check out the ATC Issues 'Biggin Twr/Thames thread for more of the same :rolleyes:

if there's any bollocking to be handed out, it should be left to the moderators.

now where do ah sign up for ma self-offishaaal Prooon Depudee badge, y'all? :}

[FlyUK]

HeathrowAirport,

I read your first post, then the second one and promptly skipped everything to the end.

One of our jumbos on a long distance flight (full tanks) entered the runway and some (a very small amount of) fuel escaped from the fuel vents on one wing. The next aircraft (not local airline) to line up got a bit 'over excited' by the fuel and reported it to tower who in turn shut the runway. Delay as a sweeper was found to clean up fuel...Fuel had actually almost all evaporated by the time sweeper arrived.

No big event. Aircraft that spilt the fuel was informed of possible 'fuel leak' but replied that it is normal and they were carrying a large amount of fuel.

[White Hart]

FlyUK

a pukka reply - shame it wasn't post no.2 on this thread..:hmm:

[HeathrowAirport]

FlyUK Thanks very much for that reply, very Intresting to know that fuel can exit through vents becuase I never knew that, thanks :ok:

Where the boy falls over is that he is trying, in many forums, from Virtual Airlines in the Flight Sim world, to Flight Sim add-on manufacturers, to this forum here, all the way through many others like this to be a different person in each.

Oh dear, another vatsimmer trying to rule my life. I really dont think you as a human being, and someone who is not related or whom does not know me has any right to sit there type and essay on making me look like im some crack pot fool. Sorry but you failed, most if not all people are adults and mature, you think I need growing up, but guess what I dont sit there having a go at one person becuase Im not up my tight on backside.

In more than one thread he seems to be trying to come across as an industry professional


Yes thats right, becuase Im on cannabis and Im very high and shermed. I dont think I am a proffesional and would one day like to join those who do the great job, and you sitting there saying Im acting someone who I am not is just utterley pointless, I try and post with my General Knowledge not trying to act someone who I am not, understand that?

And to sit there looking through my threads in my oppinion only sad people who have no life would do so..


He's an attention seeker, who thrives on starting precisely this type of argument. - Flight Sim add-on's manufacturers forum with a goodbye cruel world post.

Do you really think being told you can never become a Commercial Airline pilot on the basis of missing the requirements by one line on the snellen chart was in my plans to attention seek, well you guessed wrong, it hit me hard and I just decided to leave the community for a while, and return when I was ready and strong enougth to do so.

And you really think you can put others down on medical conditions, its not my fault, and I think its quite cowardly for someone to sit there and call me an attention seeker, when the truth is, Ill never fly Commercialy with my current left eye being the way it is unless magic happens, and I bet youre laugthin at this matter. Coward.

And guys most if not all are proffesional..
*let the flame war commence*

Please tell me if this is acceptable? And In my eyes just someone from the aviation "Flight Sim community" that just wants a flame war on a forum. Very proffesional and adult in my oppinion.

*Let the Proffesional, adult and mature discussion begin" :E

[jetset lady]

HeathrowAirport,


Let the Proffesional, adult and mature discussion begin


May I politely suggest that you are well out of your depth here. Forgetting the fact that professional has one f and two s's, the "adult and mature" discussion has certainly not started with your post.

I'm sorry you will not be able to realise your dream due to medical reasons. That's harsh for anyone. But pick yourself up and do the next best thing, instead of worrying about whether others are laughing at you. Trust me, most have far too many worries of their own to have the time or inclination.

If you ask intelligent questions in the correct manner, you will get all the answers you seek and more. After all, most of us are here because we share a love for aviation. However, if you do get it wrong, which we all occassionally do, apologise. But make sure you learn from your mistakes, or the apology will become meaningless.

You are 16 and just learning that life is full of hard knocks. Let those knocks teach you how to relate to people and how to get on in life and you have the chance of a successful future. Ignore them and the future could be a much bleaker affair.

There are some incredibly intelligent and knowledgeable people hanging around on this forum. Sit back, listen, watch, occasionally ask your questions and you will have the opportunity to learn so much. Just make sure you think about all of your questions carefully, before putting them up for all to see and comment on.

It's all part of growing up, I'm afraid. (Yes, at 16, you are still growing up!) Sometimes it hurts like hell.

And there endeth my lecture! :O

Jsl

[scudpilot]

can I just take this opportunity to say Rainboe that you are a horrid little man. I have been treated in this way by you in the past, and there really is no need for it. I understand that this is a proffessional pilots forum, but this is the spectators sub forum, a spectator being someone without the knowledge that you have.

To sum up Rainboe....... please get a life....

[jetset lady]

can I just take this opportunity to say......


Must you, really?


......Rainboe that you are a horrid little man. I have been treated in this way by you in the past, and there really is no need for it. I understand that this is a proffessional pilots forum, but this is the spectators sub forum, a spectator being someone without the knowledge that you have.

To sum up Rainboe....... please get a life....


Oh. It seems you must. :hmm:

And it's PROFESSIONAL......ONE F! I'm no spelling guru but I just mentioned it, one post above yours! :{

Scudpilot, there was a thread on Jetblast a while ago. All about being a delicate little flower. Maybe you should have a look. HA at least has the excuse of being young. You, on the other hand, do not!

Jsl

[west lakes]

What interests me is that Rainboe made no particulay derogetory comment about the thread starter, just general comments about the types of posts that annoy him (and possibly others). Though I conceed that some would see those comments as a personal, incorrectly in my view.

Yet

There were a number of personal attacks against him/her.

So who was following the rules of the board and who was abusing them?

[PaperTiger]

Ignoring the banter between the err... respected professionals and the spotter/non-spotters, exactly what kind of "trouble" for the crew are we envisaging here ? I assume that no-one is suggesting for a moment that IF they made some kind of error it should be hushed up :hmm: . That is if it wouldn't have been reported to the appropriate authority anyway. A serious incident would come to light eventually - that information is available to any with a cursory knowledge of Google.

If you want to be precious, R&N is the place for you. This supposed to be one of the 'fun' fora; humour and humility and all that.

[smudgethecat]

Rainboes bang on target, quite recently some idiotic spotter photographed and posted photos on here of an aircraft which was about to depart for the United States ,this aircraft had a non structural access panel missing from one of the cargo doors, the spotter in question clearly with very little knowledge of subject was making a huge fuss over this missing panel , accusing engineers of negligence in allowing this aircraft to be dispatched in a unairworthy condition blah blah and even talking of to taking his story and his "evidence" to the press
It later transpired the aircraft had been dispatched quite legally by the engineers in question with this panel mising under the provisions of the config deviation manual, luckily this idiot and his story never made it to the press but it could have quite easily ballooned into yet another aviation near disaster story with all the resulting misinformed bad press for the airline and engineers in question

[Skipness One Echo]

I remember, it was an A330 at MAN of BMI .He saw what appeared to be a hole in the cargo door. I too would have been *GREATLY* concerned had I seen what the photos appeared to show. I also remember the people who boarded a certain Aloha 737, saw a developing tear in the fuselage and never said anything to anyone. The gentlemen was IMHO, not an idiot and was right to point it out. As the thread proves, one mans "perfectly normal" is a genuine concern to another, where both are professionals in the same industry. One assumes that the pilot who reported the fuel spill was not being a hysterical idiot in mentioning this?

Rather like not understanding why an aircraft cannot be despatched with an *apparent* hole in the frieght door. One also remembers the UA B747 that lost a cargo door just after the Lockerbie tagedy? Just be a little more tolerant please guys.

I well recall a certain Heathrow departure being asked by a concerned Tower controller if he was aware he was missing a winglet......he was assured that the B744 could be so despatched, but he was right to say, "whoooa that looks wrong!"

[simonchowder]

I remember this incident clearly, as said some spotter who patently didnt have a clue what the hell he was talking about was bad mouthing the engineers dispatching the aircraft because a panel was missing, turned out the engineers had removed the panel as it had been damaged and had dispatched the aircraft quite correctly and legally, licensed aircraft engineers are not fools, they are highly qualified responsible switched on guys who know what there doing, what right had this clueless buffon to come on here and slate them for doing their job???:ugh:

[L337]

A passenger recently rushed up to me and accused me of flying him and 350 passengers in an aeroplane with a hole in the tail. He accused me of being unprofessional, illegal, and planned to phone his lawyer at the earliest opportunity.

He was totally correct. There was a hole in the tail.

It was the APU air intake.

Roll on retirement.

[Rainboe]

Good heavens I had no idea all this was going on. Some of us have to work you know, i can't be everywhere. To the poster who said I was a horrid little man, how dare you! I am a horrid big man, so there. To young spotters who are hurt or offended, I tender my apologies, but don't identify a specific flight and you won't have me snapping at your heels. This may be a spotters section, but it is part of a Professional Pilots Forum, and no professional wants his flight identified to his colleagues or Boss with explanations required as to was he really 'low flying over Birmingham heading a funny way?' Just common sense here is needed.

[Scott Diamond]

Have to agree with Rainboe... the CAA can be bad enough to pilots, I would think "wanna-be's" could be even worse :}

Or the real bad types.. the ones who get the registration and bugger off, not even watching a single thing apart from their internet screen when they upload into some silly database... :ugh:

[Panop]

i can't be everywhere.Very modest of you, Rainboe! I think you underestimate yourself and your 3,223 postings. Where aren't you?

[TIMA9X]

Rainboe,
It is right that you said don't identify a crew or flight, I do respect you for that, but sometimes mate you give the industry a bad name with you rather sharp words. (particularly on this thread)

I wonder what your FD crew think when they are rostered to fly with you are they scared of you or really are you a big softy in real life? Anger can create undesired comments outside of your controlled website.

In these hard times the aviation industry needs pilot ambassadors/mentors, like yourself who has oodles of experience, but to let a 16 year old upset you so much on the spotter forum is a little bit rich, you first comment was right but the other ones you made were unnecessary.

I am sure that some airline management would agree with me too.
Footnote; To be fair to Rainbow he does say Warning "TOXIC":ooh: