Positions at non-NATS units

[theswagman]

I was a trainee atco at NATS, but failed my summatives. I would like to remain in the industry somehow, any advice would be appreciated. I've been unable to remain within NATS. I am not university educated which may restrict me in some things.

In particular I was considering applying to be an ATSA at non-NATS units, with the eventual hope of them training me as an ATCO. If anyone could provide a list of non-NATS units I would really be grateful, finding it hard to come across one.

I'd be willing to do other things within the industry, sales, train as something else, whatever. I'm a little lost, any advice gratefully received!!!!!!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

You do not sat at what stage you failed but, as a private individual, you can sit ATC licensing examinations if you have completed the requirements in CAP744; you do not have to be employed by NATS.

So why did you fail? Did you not work hard enough at the book work, or was it the practical side which you found difficult? I don't have much sympathy with someone who fails book work but I do sympathise with those with practical problems. ATC is a difficult job which some can do and some can't, irrespective of background, education or the amount of OJT undertaken. I've seen trainees pass exams with 99% but were then too scared to sit at a live ATC position.

It seems to me an awful shame that you may have completed a large part of the course but failed the exams. Presumably you were thoroughly debriefed so you know what went wrong? If you are prepared to talk about this some of us may be able to offer more advice. Having a Degree means zilch in operational ATC. I have just two GCE O levels, neither in maths nor a science subject, but worked alongside people with degrees who were no better than me at doing the job so don't worry too much on that score if your aim is still to be an ATCO.

Non-NATS airfields include some of the smaller places like Kidlington, Shoreham, Isles of Scilly and manufacturers airfields like Hawarden. East Midlands, Tees-Side and some other larger places are non-NATS too I believe, although the situation may have changed. (Someone on here is bound to provide a more comprehensive list).

Good luck whatever happens.

[goatface]

Times are hard.

If you don't have a validated ADI rating your chances of getting an ATCO post are virtually nil.
You may have some luck in getting an ATSA post, but the vast majority of non NATS airports are able to fill such vacancies by trawling internally or through applications which they have previously recieved.
To be honest you are competing with a large number of people who are in a much better position than you and you face very tough competition.

You, as you say your self "are a little lost", because prior to taking on the NATS training, it didn't occur to you that you would be in the position you are now in and like many others, you didn't make contingency arrangements.

I wish you the best of luck, but there's a part of me that says that you make your own luck in this life and your position is indicitave of attitudes which prevail at this time.

It's now up to you to put in the hard work and prove yourself.

[General_Kirby]

If you've been training with NATS then I would of thought you'd have some idea of NATS\ non NATS airfields?? The best way to find non NATS airfields is to take away the 16 or so airports NATS has contracts at, then every other airfield is a non NATS airfield. A good few in Scotland - Highlands and Islands, Newcastle, Liverpool, Exeter, Newquay, Teeside, East Mids, Coventry, Cambridge, Biggin Hill and many more. Good luck

[Quincy M.E.]

Another thing you may have realised whilst training is that there is a thing out there called the AIP which contains, within the AD section, a list of all the aerodromes and contact details.

[classicwings]

You may have some luck in getting an ATSA post, but the vast majority of non NATS airports are able to fill such vacancies by trawling internally or through applications which they have previously recieved.I disagree with this in part- I know of at least 2 examples where an external applicant has gained employment at a non-NATS airfield as an assistant and has had initial experience at another airfield and/or has obtained the necessary CAA licences (ie FISO).

I was of the understanding that airport companies have to look outside their organisation under the rules of employment law anyway.

Keep your chin up theswagman; I'm sure something will work out for you sooner or later!:ok:

[goatface]

I was of the understanding that airport companies have to look outside their organisation under the rules of employment law anyway.

No they don't, in fact many companies have either Company policy or Union agreements that all vacancies are initally advertised internally;
a) It's a good incentive for anyone wanting to improve themselves and/or, moving into a job they've always wanted to do.
b) It saves a lot of money and possibly time wasted, when the person you want is already sitting on the doorstep waiting to get in.
c) Internal candidates are often known quantities. Whilst not always the case, they are often a better investment when it comes to further training.

More and more, airports will stick to recruiting for such positions from within, only when the internal candidates prove themselves not to be up to standard will they look outside and then, it's highly likely that the winning applicant will be local.

[theswagman]

You do not say at what stage you failed at...Did you not work hard enough at the book work, or was it the practical side which you found difficult?

I failed basic, but I passed the book work, and my fail was a very subjective one, based primarily, I felt, on character judgements rather than ability. There were others who had similar difficulties and were passed/given recourses. I know I'm not alone in this kind of experience within NATS, unfortunately there is too much of a grey area when judging trainees, not enought clarity/black and white.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<I failed basic, but I passed the book work, and my fail was a very subjective one, based primarily, I felt, on character judgements rather than ability.>>

But the character side is immensely important. At Heathrow back in the old days, when a controller was approaching validation standard the training officers would ask: "Is he/she safe and can I work with him/her". If the answer to either was "no", validation would be delayed or even cancelled. In busy ATC units everyone depends on everyone else so people have to be capable of working with a team, rather than as an individual.. They might appear to be very good, but will they stand up to immense pressure under busy situations? These factors have to be considered.

Do remember that those judging you are very experienced controllers and they'll know whether somebody has the right attitude and will "fit in".

If I have misunderstood what you meant I'm sorry, but hope you get the picture.