Long term risks of flying

[protectiveClothing]

Hi All,

Long term lurker, first time poster,

Was having a little chat today about the FTL (uk) applied to airline pilots today. Is 900 hrs yearly too much? Ive clocked up 6800 hrs jet time over 8 years now and I have to say I'm getting a little bit fatigued. I've only got another 10 year's flying now I'm looking forward to my retirement. My question is, for a newbie flying for the next 40 years at 850-900 hrs a year, will he/she live that long?

Discuss.. PC

[SNS3Guppy]

Are you bragging about your flight time? I don't understand your point. Do you feel, somehow, that flight time will shorten your life?

It's work. You do it, you get paid. Fly as much as you can, while you can. You won't be able to do it forever.

[protectiveClothing]

SNS3Guppy,

Firstly I am not bragging about my hours.

"Fly as much as you can, while you can. You won't be able to do it forever. "

This is the question I am asking, would, for example, a 20 year old cadet be able to work @ 900 hours a year for 45 years?

Regards,

PC

[TimeOnTarget]

The answer varies too much between each individual. Some people handle it better than others. Lifestyle choices about health and nutrition, etc play a big role.

Some guys get burnt out and quit flying. When I was 23, I thought that I would never get tired of flying, but at some point it all gets a bit old.

I think the question might be asked "why would you want to fly 45 years?"

If you love it, then the answer is clear.

[GlueBall]

Ordinary people who work in non flying jobs usually work 2000hrs annually without dropping dead. So what's the point? I'd rather "fly" 900 hours than work my balls off laying bricks.

[TopBunk]

Personally, I don't think it's sustainable over a 40+ year career, it is nothing to do with the number of hours.

I think also it varies with the type of flying you are doing. 4 sectors per day domestic/regional flying with no significant time change from /to quieter regional airports is one thing; longhaul multiple time zone changes are different!

A quick scan of my logbook for 2008 shows about 860 hours in the B747 with 520 hours of time zone changes and 57 nights out of bed in 90 sectors! Given about 6 weeks leave, that is about one night out of bed every 5 nights, and in the main that = a lost nights sleep. It cannot be good for you. So average sector length 9.5 hours and just under 6 hours time change!

I am now 52 and could not imagine doing that type of work at 60, let alone 64+.

[parabellum]

I believe there is a bit more research being done on the long term effects of solar radiation on high flying long haul crews now. I had to stop flying the 747 at 60 but I think I would only have done another couple of years if I'd had the chance to. I was starting to feel 'deep down' tired.

[Dnapps]

Just remember, those 900 hours he speaks of are not duty time. You can double that for the average duty time.

[Rainboe]

"why would you want to fly 45 years?"
Well for me, the answer would be 'because they won't let me fly for 46 years!'.

I've been doing it for 39 years (paid). I still regard it as huge fun and the best job in the world. I don't see anybody else 'enjoying' their job like I do. Yes, it is VERY tiring, and it's not easy to drag yourself up at 3am having hardly slept, to do a long day. Most of my time was longhaul. Intersperse your time with occasional shorthaul, break the monotony with something different, and time passes VERY easily. There are health risks, but we worry about the radiation thing perhaps a bit too much- as long as you change from longhaul to shorthaul you reduce the risk. The key is- enjoy your job, (or do something else if you can find something well paid!), or it will kill you. Getting up doing something you don't want to do anymore alone will harm you. There are more than enough enthusiasts waiting to take your place who WILL enjoy it. The job can buy you a style of life- if you feel that hard work is not getting you enough, move on! But remember, the work is hard- 900 hours/pa is a hell of a work rate. If you can't relax out of the job and enjoy your life...move on. Don't waste your life doing something you don't like.

I have seen many people move out of the industry. The ones I've known, I've asked '1- do you miss the job?, 2- do you feel you may have made an error leaving it?', the answers have always been 'yes and yes', especially from those who left it with no choice.

I will manage 45 years barring medical retirement. It was my dream and I lived it. If you can't take the pace, slow down a bit, but from me- no regrets.

What was the question again?

[gingernut]

Epidemiological data would suggest that you live longer than the average bricklayer.

You're less likely to die of the biggies early-cancer and IHD, with the execption of a slight increased risk of skin cancer.

[Stan Woolley]

TopBunk

I think also it varies with the type of flying you are doing. 4 sectors per day domestic/regional flying with no significant time change from /to quieter regional airports is one thing; longhaul multiple time zone changes are different!


I disagree with this view. Not denying what you say about long - haul but...

38 hrs(flying) and 20 sectors in five days last week!(737) Oh and fortunately it wasn't line training a 200 hr cadet last week but it could have been.

Can't remember last time I went for a kip onboard either?

[Stan Woolley]

Fair enough.

I've done both but not enough long haul to really know the long term reaction.

I have seen intensive short haul cause a high number of medical/ stress problems.

[Denti]

Thing is with shorthaul you can have the nightflights mixed in as well. At least it is the norm in our kind of business which is a mix of normal network traffic and holiday (aka charter although its all scheduled) flying. Usually you are 5 days away from home with 2 days off in between since you only need 10 hours rest away from base instead of 12 at the base (and pi*s poor planning of course). In the middle of it quite often a night-flight to egypt or somewhere else without a night curfew, around it two min rest times and most probably some split duty too with a 3 to 4 hour hotel rest. All nice and legally planned right to the dot of what is possible.

Surely do not want to work like that for the rest of my life, but thank god my company supplied me now with fully payed 7 months off, and it probably will become around 9 months off and part time work is possible if someone wants to reduce his working days.

[Rainboe]

I'm on short-haul and I take a 5 day rotation with 4 legs a day any time over a night flight with check-in at 7:00pm and arrival back home at 07:00 am.
My observation over 24 years longhaul and 13 shorthaul is that people tend one way or the other. Some are good at getting up at 5am and knocking off early and can 'enjoy' the rest of the day off when they finish. I found I wasn't like that. Longhaul is a very different kind of fatigue, but just as many pilots tend to go that way and feel more comfortable with it. I belong to group 'B'!

[Old Smokey]

I've enjoyed reading Rainboe's 2 posts, it seems that we've had similar careers and have a similar attitude to the greatest job on earth!

Like our Rain Repellant friend, I too have a 45 year potential until "time expired", but sadly have only 2 of those 45 years left.

The only risk to my well-being is occasional "depression" that it's all coming to an end fairly soon. Sincerely, sometimes I WISH that I had the attitude of many tired colleagues of my vintage who look forward to retirement, to me it's a looming nightmare.:eek:

Dammit, I just never get tired, I can sleep at will and leap out of bed if I'm flying. I drag myself out of bed if I'm not.

And I still get a h@rd on every time I hit the TOGA switches.....:ok:

Regards,

Old Smokey

[Stan Woolley]

And I still get a h@rd on every time I hit the TOGA switches.....


Not very useful unless you keep a set at your bedside? :8:ok:

[Rainboe]

Thank you Smokey- I thought I was a bit of a misfit actually liking the job, despite the aggravations and hard work! So many people seem to approach retirement with great enthusiasm, and can't wait to get stuck in to golf and sailing and whatever. I feel like asking them 'how did you do it for 34 years if you can't wait to stop it? How did you drag yourself out of bed?' I have the fortune of having tried retirement for over a year. Becoming a 'civilian' again was immensely shocking. No checks, no simulators, no questionaries, no manuals to read, no pressure. Bloody awful. Sitting on a Spanish beach watching jets fly over- I was jealous of the pilots! Best thing I ever did was to knock that on the head and get back to it! I recognise the TOGA hard on!

So many of those who did drop out (OK....retire) do regret it, but too late. I was unwillingly 'retired' prematurely, as if earning max pension somehow excluded me from further flying in the job I wanted. Excuse me? Whose business is that but mine? The law has sensibly changed.