Starter ATC jobs

[Dimbleby]

Forgive, if a much trounced question, but I did 'search' the forum to no avail.

So here is the question.

Dimblebys mate, - ATPL, 40+ years, Biz jet pilot, for ever worried about how secure the company is, youngish family thinks about something more stable.

Hears, as does Dimbleby, that ATC will have lots of vacancies in future.

Not bothered about the probable low salary for the first few years, has a few bob in the bank to tide over.

So..to the question!

Where does a 40+ year old ATPL, resolved not to fly again, apply to start a career in ATC? UK only.

[121decimal375]

Try

NATS careers (http://www.natscareers.co.uk/)

[GhostUK]

I thought the max age for NATS cadetship was 36..? Or has this changed?

Have you considered funding it privately..? Astac ltd is a good place to start.
Althru keep in mind it isn't cheap.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Couple of things he ought to be aware of:

1. ATC is not a simple alternative to piloting. It's hard graft; probably much more demanding than flying.
2. Starting in ATC at 40+ is going to be even harder.

I wish him luck, but it's not an easy changeover by any means..

[121decimal375]

There is no longer an offical age limit, check out

Air traffic control service NATs found guilty of age discrimination - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/4862480/Air-traffic-control-service-NATs-found-guilty-of-age-discrimination.html)

I wouldnt envy anyone training at 40, but its has previously been done, and Im sure it will be done again in the future.

[GhostUK]

Shouldn't it be the same case with eurocontrol?

[Dimbleby]

Gentlemen, perhaps gentlewomen, thank you indeed for your thoughts on this matter. My Colleague does not doubt for a a second that the switch will be a challenge, despite 5000+ airborne hours, and lest it be said, he is one who always had he highest regard for his tower bound compatriots, over the decades - hence his consideration of career change.

[abracadabra28]

Dimbleby sounds like quite a switched on chap. Good luck to him I say.

[goatface]

Good luck to your mate.

I know that all below is going to sound terribly negative, but I'd urge him to consider it all very very carefully before making any commitment.

Has he considered how much effort he had to put in to get the ATPL?
Well, that's only part of what he's going to have to endure to get through all the ATCO training at his stage in life and having a "high regard" for what we do won't make it any easier.
Lets assume he gets a place with NATS, during training he's going to be on a minimal salary, most single folk get by on it but those with families struggle. After all the training he'll still be on a very basic salary and it will take years to achieve what he earnt as a pilot.
Of course, he could supplement that income with flying - several atco's do so - but they have to balance spending time off with family or spending two out of four days off away from home - not an easy or paliatble coice.

Taking the other option of paying for his own ATCO training is very expensive and very high risk - it involves paying around £35k for the ADC and APS course (inc. living expenses), with
1. No guarantee he'll pass (and you could be chopped on the last week of the final module with no refund), and
2. No guarantee of a job at the end of it.

The two private colleges won't do anything to advise against enrolling on a course, they'll point out that many people of his age do, but what they won't necessarilly say is that may of them are ex miltary atco's with considerable experience and who are using resettlement grants to fund the costs.

Even after finding a job, he's still got the course costs hanging around his neck - some employers will offer to pay for one course providing he successfully passed the other, but he'd have to get that in writing, I can give advice on that one if he wants to PM me.

His proposed cousre of action is highly risky and full of pitfalls.

He may have a lot of money saved up, but in the worst case scenario (paying for everything himself) and assuming he has no mortgage, he'd need at least £100k for every contingency - Course costs & living expenses, costs of running the family and home in some sort of comfort and in the style they're used to during the course and, to provide at least the equivilant of 8 months salary after he's passed everything whilst the dust settles and he applies for jobs. If he has a mortgage, add around £10k to that.
He'll probably tell you/us, that he and his wife are prepared to live in penury and run a young family on the same basis until he's achieved his goal, but believe me it just doesn't work like that.
They'll be used to a certain standard of living and although I'm sure that theyre strong and commited people, it will be exceedingly difficult to change and if, God forbid, it doesn't all work out for the best, penury is exactly what they'll face.

Most financial commentators predict the economic downturn will last for another 10 months or so and although the sector is being slimmed down at the moment, most credible aircraft operators are planning on coming out of the recession expanding.

Unless he's really decided that flying is no longer for him, I strongly advise him to stick to that sector or try and find another job within it.
If he really doesn't want to fly anymore, my advice would be to think very carefully before making the commitment to risk so much money.

I'll shut up now and the very best of luck to him, whatever he does.

GF.

[Dimbleby]

GF and others.

Thank you again for taking the time with some very sound advise which I will pass on.

Cheers.

[CleartoFire]

Dimbleby,

An alternative for your mate may be to investigate your "local" small airfield and enquire about AFISO/Ground to Air positions. Ask at your local tower and see if you can sit in with a view to training in the future. This may open up a route to a non NATS ATC provider, will give your mate an idea of the work involved (and whether he will like it) and bolster the CV while still allowing him to build ATPL hours.

Good luck.