Maintenance flight?

[Skysurfer66]

Hi folks,

I’m after a little advice please, being new to the UK... Apologies if this is in the wrong forum, reading through below seems you folks in this forum tend to deal with clever things, like Airbus' etc ;), but not sure where else would be more appropriate.

I have just bought an aircraft in the UK, on the N register. It has only just been put onto the N register, so is still painted with its G registration. First question... can it be flown still sporting it’s G reg temporarily, as per below?

Next question.. the airplane, PA23-160, is out of Annual, needs re-spraying, and needs it’s prop’s rebuilt (reached 5 yr TBO). It is currently located at an airfield which has no maintenance facilities, so I’d like to ferry it over to an airport that does. Do I need to contact the FAA or CAA to arrange a temp permit to fly the airplane to an airport where the maintenance can be carried out? Does anyone know what is involved in this process?

Therefore, I have a plane out of annual, with TBO’d props, sporting the wrong registration, and sitting at an airfield where I can’t do anything about it. Any suggestions?

Apologies, I am both new to aircraft ownership and to the UK, so I have compounded my problems! Not sure where to go to get this kind of advice...

Many thanks, and all the best,
Matt

[Bus429]

Try this (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1407&pagetype=90&pageid=8129)

"Grounded aircraft" (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=1407&pagetype=90&pageid=8134) is another link to a part of the site above

PS - hindsight - you would have been better leaving on the G reg, permit-to-fly to place of maintenance and change registration during the maintenance check.

[411A]

I have just bought an aircraft in the UK, on the N register. It has only just been put onto the N register, so is still painted with its G registration. First question... can it be flown still sporting it’s G reg temporarily, as per below?
Next question.. the airplane, PA23-160, is out of Annual, needs re-spraying, and needs it’s prop’s rebuilt (reached 5 yr TBO).

Not an especially large problem.

Remove the G-registration, and paint (or tape on) the assigned N-number.

An out of Annual airplane can be flown where maintenance can be done, but needs a Special Flight Permit (commonly known as a ferry permit) which is issued by an FAA inspector...not a CAA one.

Props.
Those aircraft on the N-register, if intended to be flown in conformity with 14CFR91 (IE, private ops) do not need the props to be overhauled at a specific time, IF they are otherwise airworthy.

[Speedbird48]

Skysurfer,

Taking your message as it is written I would question why you bought the thing?? This sounds, on the face of it, as an expensive bargain!!

You state that it is "N" registered. If so the "G" registration must have been cancelled, and should be painted out, as the cancellation paperwork would have been needed by the FAA folks in Oklahoma before they issued the "N" number.

That means that the ferry on UK regulations, which are quite easy, is out. You need a US Ferry permit and then the UK CAA will be involved in a Special Flight Permit for a foreign aircraft to fly in their airspace without a full Airworthiness certificate, to get it to the maintenance facility. The US Ferry Permit will have to be applied for by a US certified A&P mechanic. The FAA has an office staffed by maintenance types at Heathrow just North of the Bath Road. They may or may not be of help as I have heard that they will always refer you to a Designated Airworthiness Representative and he will charge you a feee.

It is possible that the FAA will require all Airworthiness Directives and Service Bulletins to be complied with prior to the Ferry Permit issue so although the prop' does not need overhaul under FAR Part 91 for private use it will have to be done before flight??

I hope the maintenance facility that you intend to use has a US certified A&P/IA on its staff or is an FAA approved organization??

Sorry to be so negative, but if the regulations are applied as written you seem to have a problem.

Speedbird 48.

[Bus429]

Skysurfer,
Speedbird has posted what I had intended to allude to but edited my post just to refer you to the CAA and FAA. I think a DAR can be quite expensive and, of course, you will have to take aircraft to an FAR 145-approved facility.

[411A]

...you will have to take aircraft to an FAR 145-approved facility.

Not required by the FAA, a normal FAA licensed A&P mechanic with Inspection Authorisation is all that is required to return the aircraft to current airworthy status, IE: not necessarily attached to a 145 facility.

[Bus429]

Not required by the FAA, a normal FAA licensed A&P mechanic with Inspection Authorisation is all that is required to return the aircraft to current airworthy status, IE: not necessarily attached to a 145 facility.

Will this IA have all the gear to do the prop and paint?

[Skysurfer66]

Hi folks,

Many thanks to all of you who have taken the time to reply, I am truely grateful!

To contextualize where things are:

The plane was put onto the American register by the previous owner, but as he never got round to getting the aircraft airworthy, he sold it to me. I don't think that it has flown since being put onto the American register, so he hadn't got round to respraying the registration. Guess I can put that right without too many problems. I do have copies of the cancellation of the G register and copies of the N registration documents.

I've done some research, and the reason the props need to be rebuilt is due to AD 01-12-2001 where there was inappropriate maintenance by CSE Aviation. I've checked, and the serial numbers are on the list that need to be redone. Pity the company involved is not offering to do it for free!
Hartzell Propeller Inc. Propellers and McCauley (http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAD.nsf/0/c537e09a45d71b808625723500578b3e!OpenDocument&ExpandSection=-3)

The props were overhauled by them in January 2002, and a Google search doesn't say anything about the 5 yr TBO, but the guy I bought it from told me that it was required. Interestingly enough, the prop logs indicate that the TBO is 2000 hrs, not 250 hours? Either way, I'm still going to have to get it done for the CofA. It would be nice to know that I am not going to have to shell out £5000 every 250 hours for prop overhauls though!


Wow, it sounds like a complete mission to get the temp permit to fly, given the above, it may be cheaper to convince the maintenance company to send out a mechanic with all his tools and aircraft lifts etc!!!

So many minefields!

Matt

[Yancey Slide]

FWIW, special flight pernits can be relatively easy, or exceedingly difficult, to get. Unfortunately it seems to depend on the FSDO (Flight Standards District Office) you're dealing with.

Last time I worked on getting one to move an aircraft which had fallen out of annual inspection my local FSDO only required that an A&P (airframe and powerplant) mechanic inspected the aircraft to ensure that it was safe to fly over to the airport where the actual inspection was to be done. However, that aircraft was only 1 month expired and there were no ADs (airworthiness directives) open against the aircraft, and they made a point of saying that any flight-time limited ADs (fuel injection line security, or the Bendix fuel servo hex plug, for example) were completed *before* the permit would be issued. If that prop overaul AD is that old, the shop/mechanic (depending on whether it's a FAA certified repair station or an A&P/IA - mechanic with inspection authorization you're using) might be in for some discussions with the FSDO that covers the UK to get the permit out of them before pulling the props and sending them off.

I think that generally most part 91 aircraft run out of calendar time on overhauls (6 years on the prop, etc) before flight hours (2000), but for part 91 operations those times are advisory in nature unless mandated by AD - you should chat with your mechanic about what has to be done, as opposed to what would be a good idea to do, especially if the airframe has been sitting idle for that long a time.

I'm also pretty sure you'll find some boilerplate restrictions on the permit as well - VMC, nobody on board except required flight crew, etc etc etc).

[Bus429]

The plane was put onto the American register by the previous owner, but as he never got round to getting the aircraft airworthy, he sold it to me. I don't think that it has flown since being put onto the American register, so he hadn't got round to respraying the registration. Guess I can put that right without too many problems. I do have copies of the cancellation of the G register and copies of the N registration documents.

Hmmm, why did he sell?

[mozg]

Good evening,

Can anyone send me a sample of ferry permit issued by UK CAA? I need general outlay in order to check with local authorities if they accept it as valid.
Aircraft in question is in UK and out of Annual. Meanwhile export CofA seems to be time consuming and expensive show, so ferry permit look as good solution but - russian authorities would like to have a closer look before they say final "ok".

If possible - pls send me scanned copy to mozzg (at) mail (dot) ru.
Thanks in advance!

Rgds,
Anton