Pre-flight Briefing

[Sidestick_flyer001]

Can anyone advise if JAA, now EASA lay down any regulations on what operators are to provide to flight-crew as regards to facilities for pre-flight briefing?

Is anything laid down by JARs as to what flight crew are to check before conducting a flight (eg Notams, weather etc)?

How much time do companies allocate for pre-flight briefings for medium haul international flights?

Thanks.

[Bealzebub]

A company will allocate a standard report time for a flight. This may vary from company to company and even for the type of flight. This time is in fact the latest reporting time, since most people will turn up well in advance of it.

Pilots are responsible for the safe conduct of their flight at all times and that most certainly includes the pre-flight and planning phase. Obviously an analysis of the weather and notams is a vital part of that, since there are regulatory requirements for airports to be determined as suitable alternates based on this discovery. That is but one example. The whole structure of the flight is based on this pre-flight information from fuel loading to route and level requirements to CRM inputs (cabin crew briefing/ passenger information.)

There will be numerous references to pre-flight planning aspects within both a companies operation manuals and the the regulatory documents upon which they are created. However I cannot point you to any particular reference that would seem to satisfy the specific question, since it would appear to span a whole range of subjects and is any event a fundamental part of pilot training and doctrine.

[411A]

The absolute finest pre-flight briefings I have ever received in UK/Europe were with....
Monarch, in the UK.
Lufthansa, in Europe.

AMS, a very close second.


Best in Asia?
JAL, in NRT.


Absolute top pick....Monarch, in MAN.

[Sidestick_flyer001]

Thanks for your insights.

What I'm after is legislation. There must be some official regulations defining this important phase, as otherwise Operators will cut down on FTLs by simply allowing something silly like 5 minutes for preflight briefing.

I am seeing alot of pressure coming in to cut down of flightbriefing time, which although "brief" shouldn't be made brief to the extent that pressure applied to "read designated enroute alternate notams (required to be able to reduce contingency fuel to 3%) en-route". Or " don't print notams double-sided (paper) as it takes too long".

IMHO this sort of pressure is un-necessary and is leading to a lowering of standards, and not conducive to flight safety.

And before someone says it, for various reasons it is very often not possible to volunarily go to Flt Ops earlier than designated check-in time, in our operation, which is one hour before STD.

[Bealzebub]

I am not sure that what you are looking for exists. If you need more time to properly plan your flight, then take it. If the flight goes late, it goes late. They go late for a variety of reasons, and ensuring the safety is right up there with the must justifiable. If you need more time then take it.

This needs to be balanced of course. 1 hour report is in my experience enough time to complete most normal pre flight requirements to ensure an on time dispatch, provided there are no distractions or additional delays. Most people do allow time to take a more relaxed approach to the whole thing. Personally I like to have the time to have a quick chat with people, check my mail, get a coffee and allow for contingencies such as delays in getting to work or personal distractions once I am there. This usually means that 20 minutes or so is "my time" rather than "FTL governed," but the reduction in stress it affords me justifies the practice. Like everybody else, there are rare occaissions when I am operating to the limit and sometimes even late for that. In those circumstances my colleague who will inevitably have provided his own contingency, will take off some of the pressure by adding to his own workload.

There are occaissions when weather or notams that might have been checked in the office, have to be taken out to the aircraft and checked there. That then eats in to time that might otherwise have been spent discussing something social or mundane with somebody else. Simply a re-adjustment of time management.

If you feel that your company is not providing sufficient time or material for an adequate pre-flight briefing, then speak to your chief pilot/ fleet manager. If you feel you cannot do this, then speak to your regulator/OPs inspector. I am not sure why you cannot avail yourself of briefing facilities in advance of the FTL report time, but if this is the case it must be affecting other people as well? Presumably it is therefore being brought to the attention of the operator?

Like you, I operate with a normal FTL report time of ETD-60 minutes. For all the reasons given I apply my own contingency margins to that figure. Most of the people I fly with do the same. It all seems to work fine. On those occassions when everything works to the limit or worse, then we adjust the workload between us to compensate, or simply cut out the slack. If for whatever valid safety reason the flight is delayed, then so be it.

[411A]

If for whatever valid safety reason the flight is delayed, then so be it.

Yup, with the mob I work for also...and positively no complaints from the head shed.
None, nada, zip.
Nor, would I expect any.

Lets look at the USA.
Each air carrier is required to have a licensed/certificated dispatcher (or his represenative) attend the preflight briefing, and further, sign the flight release.
The only other regulatory authorities that require this rather important item are...SaudiArabia and Japan, that I can recall, offhand.

Waiting to be corrected.:}

[Sidestick_flyer001]

I have company transport, so I have no control over my arrival time at the airport, and often its bang on time.

I find that sourcing, printing of documents, briefing of met, notams and flightplans for at least two airports, reading of airport briefing manual, checking of aircraft location, safety bullitins on notice-boards etc, takes some 25 minutes. Is this unreasonable or over-the-top?

It then takes a minumum of 10 minutes to board the plane (more if parked remotely and transport required) and the crux of the problem lies in fact that we are expected by SOPs to start boarding by ETD -35, which in the case of reporting to work on time is virtually impossible.

This boarding by ETD-35 is rather extreme, and whenever there is a delay in boarding, the delay is conviniently put on flightcrew for boarding late (late as per SOP).

Yes I too site safety reasons, but recently am getting grilled, and told that 25 minutes is too long for a briefing including sourcing and printing of whole briefing.

I detest the pressure that is not so subtly being put and what IMHO is coercing me to lower my standards.

I thus am keen to check if EASA/JARs (who legislate just about every square inch of our job), say something about appropriate briefings.

I once raised the subject with the Authority's inspector, who totally agreed, yet at the end of the day, it was he who approved the SOPs!

[low n' slow]

The mobs we work for need someone to blame for the poor numbers these days. Designing the operation so that we are allways working with a headwind makes it easy for them to put the delay on us. How about regular turnarounds of 10 minutes on a winter schedule?

The softer values of flight safety is a difficult issue to raise with beancounters. They hired pilots so they hired flight safety, right? Flight safety is something that comes automatically with an AOC so there's no need provide economic strenght to these parts of the operation. That's how they think.

Pressure on pilots and cabin crew these days I think is getting rediculous.
The buffalo incident shows what happens when this goes too far. It's a shame that the beancounters can't put one and one together though.

/LnS

[Bealzebub]

Another thing I will often do, is log off this site and have a quick browse for the weather, notams, sig wx charts and upper wind charts for the place I am flying to tommorow. I will also take a look at the 3 day public forecast (for P.A purposes) for each sector destination. It only takes a few minutes in the comfort of your own home/hotel or wherever. The advantage is that you then have an early mental model of what lies ahead tommorow. Naturally you will then use your pre-flight briefing to obtain the official and updated documents. However there will usually be little change on most occaissions and as such it will cut down the time required when you check-in.

I am not suggesting this is a pre-requisite necessity or even desirable in other peoples cases, but there are things you can do yourself to better manage your time. As already stated, if you cannot complete what is necessary in the time allocated, then tough luck the flight goes late. I don't care what reason is given, the only one that matters is the one I write on the operations return. There are always going to be pressures on your time, and I don't think any experienced pilot is unsympathetic to your point, but as commander a geat deal of this falls on your shoulders. It is your decision and your responsibility, that is what they pay you for.

[411A]

It is your decision and your responsibility, that is what they pay you for

Yup.
In addition, in two airlines where I worked (one now one of the largest in Asia), the dispatcher would call just after call time at an outstation, giving a mini-brief, including, PLOG times, weather, expected payload, relevant notams and aircraft status.
Fuel uplift was then decided, to my complete satisfaction.
Worked good, lasted a long time.

From some of the comments here, I get the distinct impression that some airlines are really not all that well organized.
No surprise there.:rolleyes:

[FLCH]

Each air carrier is required to have a licensed/certificated dispatcher (or his represenative) attend the preflight briefing, and further, sign the flight release.


Not at my airline 411A, although they are just a phone call away if needed for any additional info.
In our weather rooms there are no other ground staff, everything is done via computer and e-signing releases.

[411A]

....e-signing releases.

Yup, also works good. Ain't computers wonderful?:cool:

[howflytrg]

"How much time do companies allocate for pre-flight briefings......"

UK CAP371 stipulates a minimum of one hour before departure and a minimum of 45 mins after arrival to complete pre and post flight duties such as briefings-debriefings and paperwork tasks to be carried out.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

a minimum of 45 mins after arrival to complete pre and post flight duties such as briefings-debriefings and paperwork tasks to be carried out.

Really? If this is the case then a very large orange low cost airline isn't playing by the rules (guidelines). Although I wouldn't be suprised if our marvellous UK CAA has granted an alleviation to allow them to bend (break) the rules, as they have done with our 5 consecutive early report roster pattern.

I also agree fully with the sentiments of the opening poster re briefing times. Easyjet allow one hour, which, on a 4 sector day and on many other occasions simply isn't sufficient, certainly not to brief as fully as our Ops Manual suggests we do.

Bealzebub makes many good points as to how, using common sense, we may work round the problems we face in briefing adequately in the time available to us. Arriving "early" is still a very personal choice and I am simply not prepared to arrive on day 5 of earlies 20 or even 10 mins before I am obliged to be there so I can have the paperwork ready and allow both myself and my (probably equally tired) captain to have gone through every aspect of the operation that day to our complete satisfaction.

Arriving before report time to allow for proper briefing is all well and good if your airline and specific operation lends itself to such a practice. The problem arises when the rostering and viability of a particular operator/operation relies completely on flight crew arriving early to merely complete pre-flight duties. I think Easyjet, for one, is guilty of this. I'm sure there are many others.

[howflytrg]

from CAA FODCOM

3.6 Report Times
Report times (and post-duty times) are specified in FTL schemes and are intended to give crew members sufficient time to complete all pre- or post flight duties. The guidance suggests, or large comapnies,one hour as a minimum for preflight duties with half an hour for post flight duties...................FOI's will expect operators to demonstrate that report times will allow for all required duties to be accomplished within the specified under normal circumstances................