One-Two-Go crash report released

[Finn47]

News just in today:

the results of the investigation appear to confirm that the pilot froze at the controls at a time when he needed to react to bad weather conditions.

The pilot did not following standard operation procedure for going around; he failed to hit the go-around button; he failed to respond to control alerts; co-ordination between the pilot and the co-pilot broke down; both pilots failed to react to the emergency.

The summary of the results also make the point that the pilots were suffering from an accumulation of stress and fatigue.
Latest: Phuket Airport Flight Crash Report Released - Phuket Wan (http://phuketwan.com/tourism/phuket-airport-flight-crash-report-released-11175/)

[Xeque]

Sadly it has taken this long to confirm something that many of us already knew.
What is more worrying is the trend, not only here in Thailand but all over the world, to employ low time, inexperienced (and thereby CHEAP) flight crews in the hope that current computer control systems will save the day. In the case of the One-2-Go Phuket crash, here you have a pilot who, simply, should have had his license pulled years ago.
But whilst he still held a valid license you can't blame him for wanting to continue to fly. The blame lies with his employer.
Orient-Thai and One-2-Go are not alone in the world of dodgy airlines although they are examples of the worst around.
Cheap airfares are one thing - the means by which an airline is able to offer such cheap fares is another.
Choose your airline carefully!

[Desertia]

I flew back from Phuket last Tuesday and the wreckage is STILL there under grey covers at the end of the runway, next to the terminal.

The Thais are dreadfully superstitious about ghosts, but even I think that they should have removed it by now.

The place is prettied up, but they've never said it's because they've turned it into a garden of remembrance or something.

I get a little shiver up the spine every time I see it.

[InvestigateUdom]

How could the report be 6 pages long? I'll be getting a translation soon, and will post that.

[InvestigateUdom]

If there is anyone out there unfamiliar with our quest for truth and accountability in the crash of OG269, www.InvestigateUdom.com (http://www.InvestigateUdom.com) details the systemic failures including incompetent ($$$) Thai CAA (DCA) officials and willful and wonton disregard for human life by CEO Udom Tantiprasongchai leading to forseeable flight crew error on the afternoon of September 16, 2007.

90 people lost there lives. Many of the surviving remain badly scarred and awaiting more skin grafts to face and arms. The insurance company and lawyers now want to settle. Are you thinking: at least the families get $$millions? Think again. The families won't even get enough money to buy a cheap new 172, and the settlements for the survivors won't cover the costs of their skin graft operations.

**American families got more $$ in an effort to keep those families from being a part of the US court filings, and thus keep the case from succeeding in the US.

[cockney steve]

Maybe a stupid rationale, but if insurance companies did due diligence on clients, cowboy outfits would be priced out, instead of the present system where everybody pays and the insurers don't give a damn as long as the make their margin.

yup!- old and cynical.

[InvestigateUdom]

cockney steve: It's actually much worse than that!

The insurance company - Global Aviation Underwriters (http://www.global-aero.co.uk/) - knows all about Orient Thai/One-Two-Go. They know of the fraudulent checkrides; they know of the excessive flight hours; they know there are unqualified pilots; they know of the fraudulent paperwork given to the NTSB etc. They know the airline had no safety program. Presumably, Global Aero know before the crash. After the crash, I spoke with their chief legal counsel Steven Walsh and told him of the evidence. I have internet records of him reviewing it online. They continue to insure Orient Thai/One-Two-Go is highly profitable, if amoral and even immoral.

Here are the ballpark numbers:
Orient Thai/One-Two-Go have been in business for 12 years. Let's guesstimate their insurance is $5M/year. That's $60M profit for providing the insurance, which is really paperwork and a promise to pay any legal claims in the case of an incident. OG269 happens. Highly forseeable. What's the insurance company out? About $20M by my reasonably informed estimate. ($1M to Udom for the hull, $8M-$10M for the dead and injured Americans - to help keep the case out of US court, $8M-$10M for everyone else.) Net Profit for the insurance company: $40M.

Global Areo is a Lloyds of London insurer. I have had many calls with Lloyds and with the various British regulators, asking the following question: If the insurance company has proof that the airline runs illegally and dangerously, can they legally provide insurance? Apparently, no one has ever asked this question before. It seems that so long as the airline is legally licensed by a country - which Orient Thai/ One-Two-Go are - then the insurance company has no obligation other than to pay claims.

So people who board an aircraft assuming that they meet minimum aviation standards or couldn't be insured are mistaken. Big take away: You must consider the COUNTRY overseeing the airline as well as the airline itself to determine it's likely safety.

[FrequentSLF]

They know of the fraudulent checkrides; they know of the excessive flight hours; they know there are unqualified pilots; they know of the fraudulent paperwork given to the NTSB etc. They know the airline had no safety program. Presumably, Global Aero know before the crash. After the crash, I spoke with their chief legal counsel Steven Walsh and told him of the evidence. I have internet records of him reviewing it online. They continue to insure Orient Thai/One-Two-Go is highly profitable, if amoral and even immoral.

They know because you told them or because they have proof of it from other sources...your statement is very strong but not substantiated.

FSLF

[InvestigateUdom]

My statement is completely substantiate-able. Call Steven Walsh at Global Aero (http://www.global-aero.co.uk/) and see what he tells you. I have the records of our phone calls. I have the snapshot of him (his IP address) reading the proof on the InvestigateUdom (http://www.InvestigateUdom.com) website. He spent over an hour on the site, so he gave it a pretty good review.

Yes, it is strong.

[InvestigateUdom]

Google and I have made a very basic translation of the report. It certainly has errors. I welcome feedback. www.InvestigateUdom.com (http://www.InvestigateUdom.com). See the link to the report at the bottom of the page.
Of course I will replace this translation when a more professional version becomes available.

[Sharpie]

Can the report be posted on "South Asia and Far East". A few of us search there for 1-2-go and udom.

[flipster]

How about a link to a translation on this thread?

[ChristySweet]

IU

I"m hoping maybe you could put that report in a HTML format so it can be spread around more easily.

Any word on the Governmental Thai , English translation ?

[InvestigateUdom]

Any word on the Governmental Thai , English translation ?
Ha ha ha. If only it were funny.

For you, I will make an HTML version.

[InvestigateUdom]

A Web version of the document is here: Translation of the Thai Preliminary Report on OG269 (http://investigateudom.com/ThaiPreliminaryTranslated.php)

@Sharpie: What can I do that's useful? Do you just want a link to the English translation in the South Asia forum?

[InvestigateUdom]

Same link. Better translation.

[tumpenkmabur]

I think i must underline & bold at caused number 5

safe flite

[ZFT]

Interesting. The translation link returns

Sorry for your inconvenience, The web site you are accessing has been blocked by the Order of the Criminal Courts
For more information please contact: Ministry of Information an Communication Technology Building 9, TOT PCL Chaeng Wattana Rd. Laksi Bangkok 10210 Tel. 0-2505-7147,0-2568-2498

[InvestigateUdom]

Interesting. The translation link returns

Sorry for your inconvenience, The web site you are accessing has been blocked by the Order of the Criminal Courts
For more information please contact: Ministry of Information an Communication Technology Building 9, TOT PCL Chaeng Wattana Rd. Laksi Bangkok 10210 Tel. 0-2505-7147,0-2568-2498

Blocked? I'm sure I should take that as a compliment. Too bad for the Ministry of Misinformation that the word is out and spreading.

I'll post a new link tomorrow.

[Mad (Flt) Scientist]

Its working for me.

[CaptKirk]

( B., WTHeck I\'ll go ahead...) This link to translated report on the IU site is working fine. Translation of the Thai Preliminary Report on OG269 (http://investigateudom.com/ThaiPreliminaryTranslated.php)

[ZFT]

Sorry, should have stated site blocked within Thailand.

[CaptKirk]

Investigate Udom Site and translated report are online Fri June 12, 19: 30 from Bangkok CAT ( telecom) though I would not be surprised if the site was blocked eventually. -actually surprised it has not been.

[b747heavy]

The link is working fine for me...TOT ADSL :ok:

[elliptic]

An official English translation of the interim report (without personal comments)
is available at:

http://www.aviation.go.th/doc/Interim Report.pdf (http://www.aviation.go.th/doc/Interim%20Report.pdf)

The original in Thai is also available at the same website.

[InvestigateUdom]

The contents look to be the same, with one exception. The Thai version does not have the following text The investigation process of Aircraft Accident Investigation Committee follows the procedures in ICAO ANNEX 13 AIRCRAFT ACCIDENT AND INCIDENT INVESTIGATION which the objective of the investigation of an accident or incident shall be the prevention of accidents and incidents.
It is not the purpose of this activity to apportion blame or liability.

[InvestigateUdom]

IGh: would you please expand on your comments.

[InvestigateUdom]

While the link elliptic published does lead to a pdf of this weak and incomplete interim summary, I tried to find a published link and initially failed. The DCA does have an English language site. That site has no mention of OG269, the revocation of the AOC for Orient Thai and One-Two-Go etc. It is only the Thai language part of the site that has this material, including the English version of this weak and incomplete crash summary.
Could they bury it more, yet still claim to have posted the report?

[WSSS]

That site has no mention of OG269, the revocation of the AOC for Orient Thai and One-Two-Go etc

Has Orient Thai started operations again between Bangkok and Seoul? I saw their 747 parked at the aerobridge yesterday at VTBS.

[Xeque]

Both Orient Thai and their LCC One-Two-Go have been back in business for a while now. In fact, I think Orient Thai continued to operate throughout the investigation into 1-2-Go. You'll have to go back through this thread to work it all out. They were certainly flying into Hong Kong during the period.
I'm intrigued that they still appear to be working out of Don Mueang Airport. I'm sure I read somewhere thatthe DCC said they had to relocate to Suvarnabhumi last March. Is the old 'Udom backhander' still working I wonder?

[SPA83]

The Thai carrier One Two Go has been removed from the [black] list as its certificate has been revoked by the Thai aviation authorities.

EUROPA - Press Releases - Commission updates the list of airlines banned from European airspace (http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/09/1136&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en)

[InvestigateUdom]

Does anyone know why One-Two-Go's AOC was again revoked?

(I have to wonder if this is another gambit -- a temporary revocation -- by the Thai government to get OTG off the list....)

[Thai Pom]

Orient Thai have a daily flight from Swampypoon to Hong Kong nothing to Korea.

Cheers, TP

[InvestigateUdom]

Several press articles state One-Two-Go was removed from the EC blacklist because "its certificate has been revoked by the Thai aviation authorities." Yet, I can find no direct information in English or Thai stating such an action was taken by the Thai DCA.

Can someone shed light on this?

[rubik101]

The Bangkok Post reported yesterday that One-Two-Go has put half of its MD80 fleet, I believe that is eight, up for sale. The aircraft are currently stored in Dom Muang. The intention, apparently, is to make more use of the remaining four and to improve punctuality!!!
Nothing in today's paper about the AOC.

[Finn47]

This article by today´s Bangkok Post says nothing about the AOC being revoked. Instead it says One-Two-Go is being operated by the parent company Orient Thai and is seeking it´s own AOC.

Bangkok Post : One-Two-Go off blacklist (http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/aviation/20326/one-two-go-off-blacklist)

[WSSS]

Orient Thai have a daily flight from Swampypoon to Hong Kong nothing to Korea.

Cheers, TP

The departure/arrivals board at VTBS suggest otherwise. ;)

http://i30.tinypic.com/2dhz9ys.jpg

[InvestigateUdom]

Mods: why did you move the question of OTG AOC revocation to the crash report thread? these are very different subjects albeit about the same airline.

[afvap]

did someone know about the wreckage mooved? Who ordered it?
Is expertise still allowed?

[ChristySweet]

This is somewhat OT but pertinent , deserving of another thread even. This position sat empty for over a year.

BBC NEWS | Business | New president raps Thai Airways (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8363476.stm)
New president raps Thai Airways


By Juliana Liu
Business reporter, BBC News
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/shared/img/999999.gif

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/46742000/jpg/_46742220_jex_521937_de03.jpg Mr Amranand slammed favouritism at his airline

The new president of Thai Airways has strongly criticised political interference in his airline.
Thailand's loss-making national carrier continues to struggle with enormous pressure from outside, Piyasvasti Amranand told the BBC.
The newly appointed head of Thai Airways was in London on a global road show to gather investor support.
"The management had not really been allowed to manage the company," Mr Piyasvasti said in an unusually frank interview.
"The company had been interfered heavily by the board, by the politicians. That had substantially weakened the management of the company, and our response to the crisis."
Restructuring
He has been the airline's president for just four weeks. Mr Piyasvasti said it had taken months of negotiations to secure a strong enough mandate for his new job.
On Monday, the state-owned carrier reported a net loss of $121m (£71.8m) for the July-to-September quarter.
The results were worse than analysts had expected. They forecast another loss in the fourth quarter, traditionally high season for tourism.
Thai Airways is currently overhauling its management and business operations after reporting a record loss in the last three months of 2008.
Mr Piyasvasti seems an unusual pick to run the national carrier. As a fund manager, he refused to own shares in the airline.
"Thai Airways was a company which did not provide transparent information to investors," he said.
"Thai Airways management were not able to provide clear directions or policy to investors. Most of the big funds, whether in Thailand or outside Thailand, stayed away from Thai Airways stocks."
'Top three'
Mr Piyasvasti said he had been drawn to head the airline because it was in trouble.
"I would like to see the company becoming one of the best airlines again in Asia, and the world. Maybe top three in Asia, top five in the world, within two or three years," he said.
Central to this success, he said, was reducing political interference in the day to day running of the airline, which is majority owned by the state.
He said one of the most serious problems was nepotism and favouritism in promotions and in the awarding of contracts.
"When you promote people who have connections but no ability, initially it's okay, but eventually it weakens the company, Mr Piyasvasti said.
"It reduces the quality of the work. That is what has happened to Thai Airways."

[Swiss Cheese]

On Wednesday, the Lincoln Coroner, Stuart Fisher, recorded a narrative verdict for the deaths of 8 Britons, amongst the 90 who were killed in the OneTwoGo crash at Phuket on 16th September 2007.

Accidental Death was not a suitable verdict, and the Coroner drew express attention to the systemic safety failures at management level, in relation to flight training, CRM, Crew rest, and safety management systems, all which compromised the abilities of Capt Arief and F/O Montri to do their jobs as pilots and work as a team in the cockpit in the final minutes of OG269.

See Yorkshire TV on 23rd March, their 1830 news show for the full report.

[411A]

Congratulations to families involved.
Maybe.
However, I would then ask...what difference does it make (from a legal perspective), other than perhaps personal satisfaction?

[InvestigateUdom]

What is it about the Internet that makes people want to be a-holes or at least show limited sensibility? Since I lost a person, I'll take personal satisfaction.
I'll also take another documented unbiased, legal reviewer of the facts who says Orient Thai did not properly train, had no safety program, flew excessive hours and attempted to cover-up their actions.
Anyone who wishes and is fully informed should feel free to fly with Udom to his/her hearts content. :-) The rest of us think our lives matter to us, to our families and to our friends.
A happy day here. Safe travels to you all.

[411A]

I'll also take another documented unbiased, legal reviewer of the facts who says Orient Thai did not properly train, had no safety program, flew excessive hours and attempted to cover-up their actions.

Good luck getting that.
The only thing Odom understands is someone smarter than himself, with enough legal representation in high places to pull it off.
So far as I know, there has only been one entity that has done so...our company, when we repossesed an airplane out from under his nose, and there was absolutely nothing he could do about it.

[InvestigateUdom]

@411A: You're a strange dude. We're talking about 90 dead innocents, many of them kids, and you're bragging about Udom's intelligence and connections and how you *bested* him by stealing a plane back. I guess you haven't had enough pats on the back for that one. Congratulations. Good job. Well done.
Wow.

[411A]

Congratulations. Good job. Well done

We thought so.
IF you need assistace dealing with Odom, send a private msg and perhaps our small company can assist.
We know all the hot buttons to press in Thailand...and several other locations, worldwide.
However, need cash, no checks.

[piratepete]

The Captain was not fit to fly.How do I know this?.The FO on the crash flight(and many other FOs on the MD80 fleet at the time) who flew with him over the preceding months prior to the crash had noticed that the crash PIC had a habit of falling asleep (slumping over the controls) mainly in the afternoons and it might be reasonable to assume that this was some kind of low-blood-sugar issue, but im not a doctor, im a mechanic.On at least one occasion, according to some low houred FOs he flew with, he slumped over(passed out) WHILE ON THE RUNWAY DURING TAKEOFF when he was the pilot flying!

How you might ask, did he renew his medical certificate?.Well your guess is as good as mine, but it was renewed regularly back in his home town of Jakarta..........He is not here to defend himself, and maybe too late for an autopsy to confirm this condition, but the management of OX was fully aware of this issue im reliably informed and responded by......promoting him to Chief Pilot (Udom approved this).......go figure.

[aixois]

As the main former thread is closed :

http://www.pprune.org/airlines-airports-routes/292331-md80-plane-crash-phuket-sep-07-a-31.html

I post on this thread the information about a French Court who issued a warrant against former C.E.O of ONE TWO GO and THAI ORIENT AIR according to French online media today (2017 September 17) :

Crash de Phuket : enquête sur une affaire oubliée - Le Parisien (http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/crash-de-phuket-enquete-sur-une-affaire-oubliee-16-09-2017-7264527.php)

and the translation (extract of the press release) is :

Ten years to the day after the crash of a plane when it landed on the island paradise of Phuket, Thailand, which caused 90 deaths of which 9 French, the French justice goes to the top speed. According to our sources, an international arrest warrant was issued this summer against UDOM TANTIPRASONGCHAI, former CEO of One-Two-Go Thai airlines and its parent company, Orient Thai Airlines, as part of the of the investigation opened by France for unintentional killings and injuries


Of course, as it is a one press release, it will have to be confirmed by French authorities.

[ATC Watcher]

Thanks a lot for putting that Aixois, the last 2 paragraphs of the article are reallyworth reading .
If indeed the company was trying to re-write the log books after the accident to show lower hours this is criminal .
The other remark about offering money to pilots to go beyond their hours, I am not a legal man but I think in this case, if you accept the bribe, you are fully responsible for what happen afterwards..
But waiting to be corrected.
Afaik France has no extradition treaty with Thailand, and as as they are a major Airbus customer , I do not think much will happen to this guy anyway.

[Bangkokian]

He's untouchable as long as he remains in SE Asia, but restricting the access of wealthy Thai-Chinese to luxury destinations in Europe like France is, however small, something that does irk them, which matters in a shame society like this. Kudos to the French for doing, at the least, something. Their business now seems to be largely Mainland charter flights, though, so any effect there is unlikely.

[horizon flyer]

In the UK this would be corporate manslaughter as per the roll on roll off ferry capsize incident, As the saying goes never trust a human being with nothing to loose. The upper management did not care as long as they made their millions effectively murders based on the report.

[ZFT]

He's untouchable as long as he remains in SE Asia, but restricting the access of wealthy Thai-Chinese to luxury destinations in Europe like France is, however small, something that does irk them, which matters in a shame society like this. Kudos to the French for doing, at the least, something. Their business now seems to be largely Mainland charter flights, though, so any effect there is unlikely.

Currently the CAAT have restricted their operation to internal flights only.

[lapp]

Not just France. With an arrest warrant an Interpol Red Notice can be issued, and there aren't many countries willing to ignore it when it's for someone that they have no interest in protecting.