Cessna 336 VH-CMY

[Fris B. Fairing]

Does anyone know the current whereabouts and ownership of this aeroplane? Last registered to TC Air of Annandale NSW.

Rgds

and why does the title force VH-CMY into lower case?


No idea :confused: but I'll try to fix it.

Tail Wheel

[Sharpie]

Was that aircraft owned/operated by Ansett-MAL in TPNG way back in the 1960's?

[Desert Flower]

Does anyone know the current whereabouts and ownership of this aeroplane? Last registered to TC Air of Annandale NSW.

A search of the register comes up with the following for VH-CMY:

CMY AYRES CORPORATION S2R S2R-G6 G6-152 2722 1 GARRETT TURBINE ENGINE CO Turboprop TPE331-6 Kerosene Full Registration WILD EAGLE HOLDINGS PTY LTD PO Box 637 KUNUNURRA WA 6743

DF.

[Stationair8]

Didn't the Ansett-Mal ones have a modification to the rear engine so that it could be swung out of the way to allow the loading of freight?

[Fris B. Fairing]

Sharpie

Yes

Stationair8

Yes

Desert Flower

It's off the Register and the registration has been reallocated.

Rgds

[tail wheel]

The ex Ansett, ex Talair C336 with swinging rear engine was at Coolangatta a few years ago.

If that was VH/P2-CMY, it may have been scrapped there as it didn't look like it was going anywhere in a hurry last time I saw it.

[tinpis]

VH-CMY "pusim ikam pullem igo" (sp)

It never went anywhere in a hurry when I was flying her in 1971 in Mendi.




VH-CMY
« on: April 11, 2007, 09:32:11 AM »

Now de registered, CMY was abandoned at Coolangatta Airport over 10 years ago. This is how I saw it in about 1997. A very unusual modification allowed the rear engine to swing on hinges to allow the transportation of 44 gallon drums. I hear that the catch released itself in flight at one stage, with no adverse damage.
David

http://board.net.au/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=352.0;attach=1154;image

As far as I can recall this was "Waddles" mount in Chimbu back then?

http://board.net.au/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=1862;image

[Peter Fanelli]

Where is GKY these days?
I considered buying that years ago when it had been sitting idle at Parafield for many years, had blue/yellow paint at that time if I recall correctly.
Last I heard of it it had suffered an in flight fire as a result of a broken exhaust on the rear engine and was thought to be dead.

[Feather #3]

Interestingly enough, of the four TAL C336's, -CMY was the best flyer. The C336 flew nose-up while the C337 flew nose-down. In the C336 it depended on the rigging and -CMY flew "level". However, the loss in payload [you can all stop laughing right here!!:=] with the weight of the swing-door conversion meant that -CMY wasn't a good producer of revenue.

OTOH, having had "possession" of -GKY during the Chimbu upgrade, I'm gobsmacked at Tinnie's shot of her in that avant garde livery!!:eek: I can't believe that it would be viable to do a job like that on such an old airframe.

G'day ;)

[Desert Flower]

Desert Flower

It's off the Register and the registration has been reallocated.

Yes, I had figured that out! PF, GKY is in Victoria. Can you remember what the rego of DL's 337 (the one that LM did the wheels up at YPAF in) - I can't think what it was.

DF.

[QSK?]

PF:Where is GKY these days?

GKY is parked at Moorabbin, right next to the aircraft I often fly, with the same Aussie flag livery as indicated above.

[tinpis]

Go and give it pat next time you see it QSK
There wouldnt be a plane on Moorabbin seen the combat duty that old girl has.

[tinpis]

I knew there was a photty
CMY at Mendi in the days I would have been flying it
Feather #3, it probably flew that way because the ginger beers had put the wings on wrong.

Edit: You can see the rear engine hinges. Diligently inspected by me before each flight :uhoh:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/cmymendi70-1.jpg

Thanks Dennis Gray

[megle2]

Photo compliments Denis Gray

Have not seen Denis for close to 40 years.
He had a surf board called " Honry " by memory and a MG or similiar.
Last time I saw him he was swatting up with the CCA self study books.

[mendi63]

That certainly doesn't look anything like the Mendi of today!

[tinpis]

Thats the TAL " terminal" in the background. TAL at the time had a 206, 207, 185, 336 and Baron based there
It was a fine little community, the only rat-baggery came from the TAL pilots! !

[QSK?]

Go and give it pat next time you see it QSK

Tin, I will certainly do that for you this arvo. Any messages, memories or "sweet nothings" I should convey to the old girl on your behalf?

[tinpis]

Yeah, say remember the time we arrived in a fogged in Usino circuit, landed shut the rear engine down, chucked out the pax cranked up and buggered off into the fog again?
Bugger. By an unfortunate stroke of luck, the two unseen white guys waiting on the side of the strip for the weather to lift so they could depart, were DCA examiners. :(

[Tinstaafl]

They must have been peeved 'cos you didn't offer them a lift...

[tinpis]

...but it all turned out ok. One of the two, Jasper Maskelin had to dispatch himself from POM to Madang for a few days in The Smugglers Inn, to check me out, and drink an awful lot of SP....:rolleyes:

[heywatchthis]

I think you will find VH-CMY or whats left of it is at one of those paintball places on the Gold Coast. She sat at ybcg for years, from memory is was up for sale about 6 years ago, but no one wanted to pay the $16500 price tag. Very sad indeed.

[VH-XXX]

GKY appears to be being used as a commuter to Flinders Island by the current owners. It had a bit of work done to it 6 months ago such as new props etc. It's quite a noisy beast and seemingly underpowered when 3 big bods jump on board.

[Feather #3]

Hey, TripleX, try operating off Highland strips on a hot day!!:eek: Then you'll see "underpowered"!

G'day ;)

[Fris B. Fairing]

Having started this thread back in May, I regret that I had to drop it as it was overtaken by developments which had to be kept low key.

As VH-CMY was last heard of at Coolangatta, some enterprising fellow decided to invoke the power of GoogleEarth in an attempt to locate it. Thanks to its distinctive planform the aircraft stood out like the proverbial at a remote location on Coolangatta Airport which turned out to be the Firies training area. Fortunately the aeroplane hadn't been torched as the Firies recognised its historic value. A deal was struck to exchange a Cessna 402 airframe and today VH-CMY was transported to the Queensland Air Museum at Caloundra. Ultimately the aeroplane will be restored in ANSETT-MAL colours.

Thanks to all who assisted, particularly the Coolangatta Firies.

Rgds and Happy New Year to all.

PS
Still looking for a photo with the rear engine swung aside if anyone can help.

[tinpis]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y150/tinpis/cmymendi70-1.jpg

Good on yer Fris
Why not paint her in TAL colours she spent most time in and that everybody knew her in?
There would only be a handful alive today would remember Ansett MAL scheme.

My two bob.

[Howard Hughes]

Nothing constructive to add cause I never flew the machine, but what a great thread!:ok:

It'd be even better if you were restoring her to flying status.

[Fris B. Fairing]

tinpis

There would only be a handful alive today would remember Ansett MAL scheme.

Exactly. That's why we need to preserve their livery. If it's any consolation, Cessna 402 P2-GKF will be painted in Talair colours. Besides, what's not to love about this colour scheme:

http://www.qam.com.au/aircraft/cessna-336/VH-CMY-02.jpg

Howard

It'd be even better if you were restoring her to flying status.

Sometimes it just doesn't make sense to fly everything. Of course if your late namesake is offering to fund it anything is possible.

Rgds

[Ixixly]

Interesting point, there happens to be a 336 (Possibly a mil variant?) parked at YBCG thats in Airforce Livery (American if i remember correctly) Hardpoints installed and all!

Quite impressive to say the least, always wished I could have gotten a ride in it!

[frigatebird]

Ix
Perhaps it is one of the Solomon Islands ones.
There were a couple of U.S.Airforce 337's and a Hughes 500 helicopter in a couple of containers that sat on the edge of the football field/parade ground at Rove in Honiara for a decade or so. They had been given by the U.S. to the Government and Solomon Police to start a surveillance capability back in the late 90's, but as usual the government didn't provide money or personnel, so nothing was done. Last year they were in poor condition because of vandalism. The containers had been left unlocked and the kids watching the football had smashed instruments, windscreen, etc. One container roof was rotten too. One of the Solair engineers, and a pilot, were interested in seeing them go again and drew attention to them, so they were transferred to the Civil Aviation Department and moved to the Solair hanger. Some voluntary work was done on one of the 337's (the only one left viable. There were a couple of spare engines in the containers too), but once again no money was forthcoming even though the Aus. Government may have come to the party with fuel Aid to operate it for the Police if it ever flew. As an ex-military aircraft it didn't have a civilian C. of A. so would have only been operated by a Government agency.
Or perhaps it has been 'smoothed' out of the country, and the payment pocketed..!! Like what may have happened with some WW2 relics. Rumours..!!

[frigatebird]

Fris,
If you get a QueenAir A65-8200, paint it in Solair colours. Thats the Talair orange paintscheme with a Nuzu Nuzu holding a Head on the tail.
Grand old ship.
You can always paint your Queenair B.80's in R.F.D.S. colours.

[Fris B. Fairing]

Frigatebird

Would persons willing to donate a Queen Air to the Queensland Air Museum please form an orderly queue.

Similarly any philanthropists willing to fund a new building to house all these aeroplanes.

Rgds

[Ixixly]

Ahh yeah, now that I think about it I seem to remember 337 being painted on the side of the aircraft in question. This one in particular though is in fantastic condition, almost certainly flyable, nothing like the ones you described! It is (Or was) parked outside the maint hang for Air Gold Coast.

[tinpis]

Was that Queeny inherited from Macair?
(Most take offs in the highlands -Full power set - wait -wait some more -close eyes -open eyes -gearup...)

[frigatebird]

Yes, back in about the pre-P.N.G. Independance days Macair owned Solair. They had taken it over from Laurie Crowley's Megapode Airways in '68 with a Dove and an Apache, called it Solair, and replaced the Apache with a Baron. In '70 the first Islander arrived. (It was either the one that got burnt in the 'Troubles', or is the one still flying). Dennis got Solair when he took over Macair in '75, tried a 402 for a couple of months, then sent them a QueenAir A65 in '76, sending one of the two Barons to P.N.G., and increased the number of QueenAirs to three before reducing them again when the SA226 arrived late in '80.

(Megapode is a local bird that lays large eggs for the relative size of the bird. The chick is well developed on hatching from its underground incubation, like a turtle egg, that it can fly soon after hatching. Megapode Airways flew on its first day in '63)

[ozblackbox]

VH-CMY

http://www.337skymaster.com/messages/attachment.php?attachmentid=381&d=1140064929

[Fris B. Fairing]

Folks I'm trying to contact robroy. Several years ago he posted on another thread to the effect that he was involved in the swing engine mod to VH-CMY. I've sent him a PM but I note that he hasn't posted for a couple of years. If anyone can put us in touch I'd be grateful.

The history of VH-CMY (http://www.qam.com.au/aircraft/cessna-336/VH-CMY.htm) is now on the QAM website.

Rgds

[sixtiesrelic]

what was the story on the 336 or 337 that lost a rear prop which cut the tail boom in 1969.
I met the pilot that year but I forget his story.

[tinpis]

Gidday Oldrelic
Best for the New Year
There was I think a fatal in MH when a 336 boom was severed by a prop blade
Then I THINK there was the one of which you speak that was able to get down ok. I have a feeling the pilot of that one was Ray Feltman?
Cheers

TP

[Super Cecil]

There's a name I haven't heard for a while, Ray Feltman. He was polling a Dash 8 around last I heard after he exited the high preesure job of a CASA boy. Still flying?

[Feather #3]

Pat Johnson-Bell had an RTO at Hagen with the rear prop gone and boom severed; is that the one? Ray's fame extends to other issues.

G'day ;)

[tinpis]

I believe you are correct once again feather #3

[Fris B. Fairing]

I have just received the following from Ray Feltman:

One of Ansett's 336's hit Kuta ridge to the south of Hagen possibly as a result of the rear prop hub failure. After that there was an AD issued for increased inspections to be carried out on the prop hubs. My little occurrence was with VH-GKY on the 28th November 1968 where the rear engine suffered a prop hub failure which caused the rear engine to break away from its mounts and broke the crankshaft allowing the remaining blade and the remaining bit of hub to hit the left boom, ripping it off at the rear of the wing attachment, the only thing holding the tail plane on was the rudder cables. 10 seconds later on the take off roll and it would have been all over for me. The air traffic controller was Geoff Jefferson (since deceased) and the chief fire officer was Mick O'Brien, last known retired from airport fire service when Archerfield fire service closed. CMY operated with Talair for a number of months in the Ansett colours.

Ray later added that his snake flight was on a C206.

Rgds

[keagy]

Harold Rondorf was flying the 336 that chopped the boom on t/o Madang.
Morrie Aldridge was killed on Kuta ridge at about the 8000' level.When we got to the wreck one blade on the rear prop could be freely rotated.I flew CMY as a new a/c.The swinging engine was a waste of money and rarely used.The336 was a dog.
Jasper M and Dennis G are still around but dont see them on a regular basis
NK (MAL /Ansett 61-74)

[Feather #3]

Sorry Tinpis, it was Ray!

Patrick was the snake.

Didn't know we'd lost "The Big Pom"!

G'day ;)

[tinpis]

Didn't think I had completely lost it :}
Couldn't remember the Madang one though...

And somebody else was the puk puk, but that is another story.....

[Fris B. Fairing]

Now that VH-CMY is safely ensconced at the Queensland Air Museum, we find that a few parts have gone astray over the years. If anyone has any leads we need:

Cabin door (RHS - the only door)
Seats
Misc engine cowls
Prop for front engine

Any help much appreciated.

Rgds

[DOMF]

Hello new aircraft people, I am totally new to computers and your web site. I was looking for a picture of a Cessna 336 and Good old Google jead me to your site.
The first two pictures are both aircraft I have worked on. I am a bit of an interloper, because I am NOT a pilot, but a ground engineer (retired) and I worked for Ansett MAL and TAL in the mid 60's to early 70's.
Nice to have input, keep up the good work.
I am open to emails.
DOMF

[frigatebird]

DOMF

Not a PNG one, but the one I was endorsed on by Don Adams of Hervey Bay when he had Offshore Aviation after he and Reg Barnewall had sold Island Airways to Snow Richards of Toowoomba's UnionAir. He had kept Lady Elliot Island (he was the fellow responsible for rehabilitating vegetation after the guano extraction, and building the airstrip), taking supplies to the Lighthouse keepers, and picnic daytripers, and just had the one 336 then. Was endorsed on it in January '77, and last flew it on 7th. October that year, landing on the beaches of Yidney and Eurong, and doing a run to Lady Elliot and back.

Will look to see if I have another better photo of it

VH-CMU ('75)

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy129/bird__photo/General/DonAdams336andJoeCunninghams182Myb7.jpg

[frigatebird]

VH-CMU (1975)

http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy129/bird__photo/Early%20Whitaker%20Aircraft/DonAdams336VH-CMU_001.jpg

[codenamejames]

I've read about a few conversions of 337s that had a single turbine conversion.

I think one had a garret in the front, which makes sense to make rear cargo loading easier, while another had a p&w in the back.

The turbine conversion would seem to kill a number if birds (more power, only one engine to maintain, possibly less chance of coolly the rear donk)

I note that the conversions were just one off, so possibly not a roaring commercial success...but I do remember seeing a very modern US prototype with a big pusher-could be a new take?

What would be the rationale for a single rear turbine?

[tail wheel]

http://www.skymaster.org.uk/photos/n15sa.jpg

Basler Turbo 34.

Basler Flight Services Turbo 34 conversion of the Cessna 337 Skymaster involves replacing the fore- and aft mounted piston engines with a single rear mounted Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-34 turboprop. The aircraft is stretched 2.1 m and can carry ten passengers or 7.3 m3 of cargo, loaded though a large double door. Strengthening of the wing centre section allows gross weight to be raised 50%, to 2,700 kg. Basler claims that the aircraft, at maximum gross weight, will take off in 135 m (450 ft), climb at 1,600 ft/min (8.1 m/s), land over a 50 ft obstacle and stop in 205 m and cruise at 230 kt (425 km/h) and 15,000 ft. Basler has logged more than 430 h on the prototype Turbo 34.

[frigatebird]

now THAT would make a great Frigatebird 2....

[skylane]

Looks a neat conversion, the cabin would be reasonably quiet, I guess the longer nose would have baggage capability.The performance figures quoted look good, especially the field performance. The 337 always performed better on the rear engine. The bottom half of the fins appear to be enlarged, perhaps to improve directional stability?

[bushy]

That looks like a great aeroplane, but it would be limited by legislation in Australia.
Most of the time it would have to fly at 9000ft or lower, unless everyone was brething oxygen.
I don't think charter pax would like that much.
So it would remain in private category.

[Fris B. Fairing]

With so much renewed interest in the type it may be an appropriate time to revisit the subject of this thread. The Qld Air Museum is still looking for a cabin door for VH-CMY. It is understood that the 336 and 337 doors are interchangeable so does anyone have any leads?

Rgds

[Art Smass]

I have a photo of C.337 VH-DVY (337-0129) at Bankstown in the mid-90's in the same Paradise Air colour scheme as CMY. Does this aircraft fit into the story anywhere?

AS

[DOMF]

Vh-CMY was flying in New Guinea under the Ansett MAL banner, and then for TAL, I worked on all 336 Cessnas for both airlines. I did 2 years with MAL and 2 years wit TAL and, yes, it did have the ability toswing the rear engine out of the way for long cargo.
DOMF LAME

[Fris B. Fairing]

DOMF

There was never any doubt that VH-CMY could swing. Indeed she will swing again after static restoration. Here is a recent image:

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/VH-CMY-QAM-12SEP10-0021.jpg

The "bulkhead" is just temporary weatherproofing.

DOMF do you have any photos of the aeroplane in service with the rear engine swung aside?

Rgds

[Young Daedalus]

Watched GKY take off at Moorabbin today. So there you go, the old girl is still flying, probably as slowly as ever. I had a chat with the owner a few days ago and boasted about flying her around PNG in the mid sixties. He is very keen to track down the craft's history and particularly old photos. Can anybody help there? There was talk about me doing flight reviews for the owner and his mates - might get to fly her again - after 45 years........

YD

[Peter Fanelli]

If I remember correctly GKY sat in long grass at YPPF from sometime before 1978 to sometime after 1996.

[Feather #3]

Sat in the grass at PMQ too!

Sadly, lost my PNG slides in a recent [very minor compared to the current drama!] flood.

G'day ;)

[tinpis]

What were the buttons for on top of the prop levers? (assuming I got the right hairyplane)

[VH-GKY336]

My name is David Dixon and I own VH-GKY. Yes like it or not, that was my colour scheme. Very patriotic for the last flying 336 I thought.
A lot has happened since the paint job and certainly my life has been too busy to even look at forums until now. You see unfortunately and very sad for me, my wings have been clipped. One day I'll put the CMY GKY (and others) more recent story together if anyone is interested enough to want to know a bit of recent history since a bunch of us originally rescued GKY.

VH GKY was battered by a hailstorm Christmas day 2011 at Bacchus Marsh awaiting its next annual.
Sadly I am not in a position to get it back in the air. It has been an incredibly fantastic aircraft, but I must say it was in extremely poor state when the first syndicate acquired it 20 years ago. I was a part of that syndicate but purchased it outright a few years later to commence a full resto. Yes as stated it ferried us on many many trips across Bass straight from Moorabbin to Flinders Island. Lots of stories associated with the old girl. I'll write a book one day, but I must say it's not the only book written based on GKY. The fellow we acquired it from (David Lyons) wrote a story based on his experiences in GKY. He was based in Port Macquarie.
I tracked down CMY and believe I saved it from the fire department at Coolangatta. I sent a crew up there to dismantle it, but they were unable to carry this out. I am donating all the parts we salvaged and more from another wreck that I cannot at this stage remember its VH- I've included a pic of it in the jungle not far from Coolangatta taken in about 1997. I do believe he had parts off 2 336s. I took many pictures of the rescue of the parts, but my computer was stolen and I'm still searching for back ups which I still may find. I found one though. Please let me know if recent history is of interest to you guys.
David

[VH-GKY336]

Here's a pic of the unknown 336 in the jungle
http://board.net.au/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=351.0;attach=8678;image
David

[VH-GKY336]

That previous post was STQ. Here are some more pics of STQ of which I was offered to pick off parts for GKY about 15 years ago. There was also another 336 that I salvaged bits off... I'm sure I can eventually identify the rego. My guess is the majority is still in the bush. The fellows name was Noel and he also had some 337 parts. Somewhere in southern QLD, can't remember much more about where or his name. Maybe he would have a door for CMY.

http://board.net.au/yabbse/index.php?topic=2224.0

David

[Fris B. Fairing]

The Queensland Air Museum has just completed the static restoration of Cessna 336 VH-CMY. This image was taken yesterday at Caloundra. The "missing" panel is actually a clear plastic panel so visitors can admire the rear engine.

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/VH-CMY-21JUL12.jpg

[witwiw]

How long had it been sitting in the bush? Flew it for 800+ hours back in the early 70's. Only let me down once in all that ime. Operated by Bassair on King Island.

[tail wheel]

Fris. CMY looks in far better nick than the last time I saw it outside the hangar in Goroka, which has to be around 40 years ago! :}

[Stationair8]

Did Ansett buy it through Rex in Sydney?

[Fris B. Fairing]

Stationair8

They sure did. Rex also did the swing engine mod. Full history here:

VH-CMY (http://www.qam.com.au/aircraft/cessna-336/VH-CMY.htm)

I'm still looking for a decent picture with the rear engine swung aside.

Rgds

[lyons336]

I bought GKY in 1985 for private use on a coastal strip at Diamond Beach NSW. In 1988 on a flight to Cooma the rear engine caught fire (crash comic ). I flew into CB on the front engine. I sold GKY to DD in 1992. I had been very happy with the aircraft and its performance. Luvd it

[therealdomf]

Allow me to introduce myself to this forum. I am the real DOMF who worked as Chief Storeman for Ansett-MAL between August 1964 to May 1967 (when I went to TAL as Stores Manager). I recall that era as one big party interrupted by work. "What a rat #@!%!! show" thence called "WARFS". I am in QLD and still kicking. My fondest regards to those who contributed to the most fun era of my life!

[DanS333]

anyone know where VH-GKY is now? no longer registered, hopefully not scrapped.

Cheers, Dan

[tail wheel]

Dan

I think you need glasses old chap!! :E

Up seven posts to one by Fris:
The Queensland Air Museum has just completed the static restoration of Cessna 336 VH-CMY. This image was taken yesterday at Caloundra. The "missing" panel is actually a clear plastic panel so visitors can admire the rear engine.

Look for this image:

http://www.adastron.com/aviation/vault/VH-CMY-21JUL12.jpg

[ad-astra]

I remember a 337 doing a partial wheels up in Gove early 80's.

Long story but it was being ferried back from Darwin via a Maningrida overnight having completing a double engine overhaul in Darwin.

With an unexpected higher fuel flow, several of the Maningrida lads 'borrowing' some fuel on the overnight and some less than accurate fuel checks it resulted in a straight in glide approach onto Rwy 13 at Gove.

It could have ended up a story only for his Grandkids but unfortunately a main gear struck the TOP strand of the 3 strand perimeter fence and the aircraft came to rest rather forlornly just past the threshold with some gravel rash and a broken gear.

Six inches higher and he would landed with enough enertia to roll to a stop at the bowser with Otto the refueller ready to fill her up!

Six inches in 40 Nm ! Bugger!

Sorry for the thread drift.

[DanS333]

Hi, Tail wheel
re
Dan

I think you need glasses old chap!!

I was refering to VH-GKY not CMY

VH-GKY
anyone know where VH-GKY is now? no longer registered, hopefully not scrapped.

Cheers, Dan

Cheers, Dan

P.S I found out its at a tech school as an instructional airframe now.