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hugh flung_dung
27th May 2009, 08:55
One of the aircraft that I instruct in doesn't have a fire extinguisher or first aid kit. I had always thought that these were mandatory, but when investigating further I was surpised that the ANO equipment list doesn't seem to require them.

Have I missed something?

HFD

Islander2
27th May 2009, 10:06
Have I missed something?Yes ... try Scale A(3) and A(5) in Schedule 4 of the ANO, Table 5(2)(a)(viii) for non public transport and (2)(b) for public transport.

Any aeroplane registered in the UK and having a certificate of airworthiness is required to carry a hand fire extinguisher for each enclosed passenger and crew compartment, and a first aid kit, regardless of whether it is flying for public transport or otherwise.

hugh flung_dung
27th May 2009, 11:21
Thanks! I thought it must be there somewhere but I'd missed the pesky little "(viii) with a certificate of airworthiness" at the bottom of the page!
I owe you a virtual beer!

HFD

18greens
27th May 2009, 12:17
There must be exeptions to that rule since I have flown a certified ac on instruction (is that aerial work?) without an extinguisher on the mel (Super decathlon).

We did question this but on reflection I think we all agreed we would rather burn to death than get knocked out by an extinguisher while doing aeros.

hugh flung_dung
27th May 2009, 12:53
Yes, until relatively recently we were using Bulldogs for teaching aerobatics - I think two extinguishers went through canopies over 8-10 years :eek:, fortunately neither happened while I was in the aircraft.
The SuperD I sometimes fly has them fixed to the rear bulkhead, but the Cap10c has none. Maybe there's a dispensation somewhere, if not a letter requesting one seems to be in order.

HFD

Islander2
27th May 2009, 13:47
The requirement for carrying an extinguisher on non-public transport flights was only introduced into the UK ANO in March 2007.

Whopity
27th May 2009, 22:36
The requirement for carrying an extinguisher on non-public transport flights was only introduced into the UK ANO in March 2007. No, it has always been a requirement, the location has changed. It was moved from Official Record Series 4 No 606 Aeroplanes and 615 Helicopters where it was for 3 years, prior to that it was in the ANO!

Islander2
27th May 2009, 23:41
No, it has always been a requirement, the location has changed. It was moved from Official Record Series 4 No 606 Aeroplanes and 615 Helicopters where it was for 3 years, prior to that it was in the ANO!You may be right, but I'm unconvinced:

1) the CAA has the power to issue exemptions from the requirements of the ANO, which it promulgates through the ORS, but it doesn't have the power to legislate through that method;

2) the requirement was introduced to the ANO through Statutory Instrument 2007 No 274; this was preceded by an RIA, finalised in October 2004, regarding amendment of the ANO to enable compliance with ICAO standards for General Aviation operations ... I find it difficult to see why the risk assessment was required and the ANO needed amendment if, indeed, it was already a legislative requirement;

3) ORS4 Numbers 606 and 615 were only issued 6 months before SI 2007 No 274 was enacted;

4) having owned various private-category CofA aeroplanes over the past thirty years, my experience is it is only since SI 2007 #274 that maintenance organisations have been requiring to see fire extinguishers and first aid kits for CofA (or ARC) renewal.

Whopity
28th May 2009, 07:54
ORS4 Numbers 606 and 615 were only issued 6 months before SI 2007 No 274 was enacted;Yes, but they replaced an earlier pair that were issued annually. There were at least 3 issues of this ORS4.

It could be that the reason they were moved back to the ANO, was because ORS was an inappropriate medium for legislation.
They were never required in Private Cat aircraft, only Public Transport and Aerial Work.