valve remains open after A320 eng. Start?

[dartagnan]

what do you do in this case...??

eh no..., it s not the usual valve remain closed question , it s valve remain open.

[ALK A343]

Follow the ECAM and remove all Bleed sources. Abort the start and consider Start Valve manual operation. The procedure is in FCOM 03.02.70 page 6 under Start Valve fault.

[Joetom]

Valve will shut after 2nd engine start I thinks !!!

[smudgethecat]

Then you think wrong joetom, if a start valve fails to close automatically then as said remove all sources of bleed and investigate why it failed to close.

[Joetom]

Question was valve remains open, question does not mention watt valve, 320 has many many valves ???

[Joetom]

Overboard exh Valve.
Pack Valve.
Outflow Valve.
Engine handling Valve.
Isolation Valve, to mention a few !

Poster mentions "not the usual" or similar.

After engine shut down, Valve remains open ? a nice question, but nobody apart from me knows watt valve i'm talking about !!!

[c130jage]

What is a watt valve?

[TURIN]

Question was valve remains open, question does not mention watt valve, 320 has many many valves ???

Is a Watt valve one of those things we used to have in our black and white telly many moons ago?

Is it a steam valve or electrical? :E

[Joetom]

TURIN, think you talking of a Gas Valve, or what some may call a wot gas valve.

Am still weighting for poster of question to advise which Valve ???

[Wodrick]

What is an Engine Handling Valve ?

[batman123]

oh, my god, it's the engine start valve, the one indicated on the bottom of your screen during start up. It's the one you can open manualy for manual engine start.

look in the FCOM under failure " start valve locked in open position"

warning: you may have this failure during a sim check...

[Joetom]

Handling Valves tend to look after the air flowing through the engines, from memory, they tend to be open during engine start and shut as the engine rpm increases, some remain open at idle and shut as the engine rpm increases, some can open if reqd, like surge/stall/rev in use.

Will have to wait for the poster to advise which Valve ???
.
V2500 Engine Accsessories (http://www.ihi.co.jp/aeroeng/aero/top/Maintenance/index.component%20repair.accessories.v2500.htm)
.
Woodward: Specialty Valves (http://www.woodward.com/airsys/products/specialvalve.cfm)
.

[ALK A343]

joetom, If the initial question was not relating to the Start Valve, you might be right.
The engine handling valves you describe must be the valves for the air bleed system for compressor stability on the V2500 (stages 2.5 of LPC and 7, 10), they improve the stall margin on engine start and low power operation. The failsafe position for the above mentioned valves is open.
So if they fail open they have no adverse effect on engine operation.

[Joetom]

If handling valve/valves fail open, engine will not be performing to book figures, fuel/RPM/EGT will tend to increase, picked up people operating engine or recording systems.

From memory, if the VBVs fail open on the CFM56, engine will be very unhappy to provide Hi power.

[ALK A343]

Agree,
engine performance will certainly not be optimum, FCOM 1 also has reference to increased fuel consumption for the V2500, although it is for the active clearance control.
Now lets see what the gentlemen who posted the question actually meant!

[Joetom]

I think he's talking about the Overboard Exh Valve.

Again from memory, Engineer can switch off power at Valve location, then he/she will operate manual handle/winder on Valve, Valve will shut and then a little door in Valve face opens to allow some air flow, power switch to remain off, MEL should have the details.

[ALK A343]

Out of curiosity, what is the cockpit indication for the overboard exh valve position?

[One Outsider]

Joetom, just out of curiosity if someone said to you "take off power" which way would you move the throttles?

[Joetom]

Take Off Power,

Reminds me of an old story about Capt asking for TOP just before landing, Capt wanted idle, FEO applied Max power, just as well because aircraft encountered strange wind or windshear or similar, they were very lucky that day, think it was many many years ago, poss 4 prop aircraft, will google it now you mention.

Can't remember OBE Valve ind on 320 flt deck, may be SD page or switch overhead, may be nothink, ECAM will Hi-lite prob i would guess.

[LEVEL600]

From memory, if the VBVs fail open on the CFM56, engine will be very unhappy to provide Hi power
56 will be happy with high power, but you will be unhappy with EGT:)
overboard exhaust valve not installed on 320, this valve is called "skin air outlet valve", indication on ecam sd "press" page, position is independent on eng. runnig or not:)

[batman123]

the outflow valve is represented in a "box" with the inlet/outlet valve and the 2 pressurisation system (SYS1 or 2)
this is on the lower ecam.

the start up valve is represented on the ecam as well, when engine is in start position.
it' s a circle with a dash inside, the dash line is at 90 degrees when in the closed position.
You have to monitor his opened and closed position when the engine start, as well as N1/N2 and fuel consumption.

it's called the engine start valve, can become a manual valve when you are "in manual", if not, it is automatic.

This valve opens to "boost" the compressor from the APU and /or from the other engine. Once the engine starts, the valve closes. If the valve doesn't close, you have to check in the FCOM which will probably say to retry a full restart, if not, start and close manually the valve until next visit.

[CR2]

Tap said valve (which is basically a solenoid) with a hammer. Worked on 747-200 (CF6) ;)

[ALK A343]

Skin Air Extract Valve, now that sounds more like something we have on the A320.
The position of this valve is indicated on the SD under Press. .
It opens or closes depending on whether you are on ground or in the air and the thrust lever position as well as the outside air temperature. The associated ECAM warning is SKIN VALVE FAULT and there is a MEL procedure for it.
Also as LEVEL600 said the Skin Air Extract Valve is not expected to close after engine start. If it was open on ground, it should close once airborne.
Having said this I highly doubt, that the original poster was thinking this far.

[jmig29]

Please do all read the first post: (...A320...)

Obviously we are talking about the start valve. If it stucks open, there will be a slight increase in fuel consumption, but the engine will work normally. Another thing is the aplicable procedures in such case. Technically, the A/C can fly tlike that, but on the next "bus stop" you will change the starter guaranteed. And that is if parts of the starter don't get into other areas of the engine.

Conclusion: If this happens, shut it down, have the start valve replaced or operate it manually

[jmig29]

Also if the outside temp is too low, both skin air inlet + outlet valves will close automatically

[Astra driver]

smudgethecat and elk343 have it correct,

Remove all sources of bleed first, per the check list procedure, then shut down the engine. Failure to do so could cause serious damage to the pnuematic starter, (If it hasn't been already damaged)

[muduckace]

Any start valve, on any turbine engine to my knowledge must be verified closed by the published MMEL's I have an understanding of with a lack of closed indication.

Just about all I know of are on a main bleed air system and could potentially run the starter moter to a catastrophic failure "not Good"

The RPM of these motor's is extremely high and can cause severe secondary damage to the engine and any bleed/hyd/elec systems in the vicinity.