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View Full Version : Some Thoughts on B737 Spin Recovery Technique (RSEP installed)


Tee Emm
20th May 2009, 11:24
Discussion came up in the simulator on B737 unusual attitude recovery technique. Specifically where the FCTM under Non-Normal Operations page 8.32 "Flight Path Control", states: "...this may require use of unusual techniques such as the application of full aileron or rudder...the objective is to take whatever action is necessary to control the aircraft and maintain a safe flight path..."

Elsewhere, at page 7.25 and 7.26 (FCTM) the discussion talks about high bank angles.
One extract says: .."If full roll control application is not satifactory, it may be even necessary to apply some rudder in the direction of the desired roll.....only a small amount of rudder is needed....too much rudder applied too quickly or held too long may result in loss of lateral control". A charming thought, I'm sure.

Let us assume for the purpose of this discussion that due to mis-handling, the 737 enters a spin. Presumably the pilot would take standard spin recovery action. Those readers who have not spun ab initio training aircraft, need to read up on spinning as it is not the intention to teach such things here.

Included among other coordinated recovery actions, is putting in full opposite rudder to the direction of the spin. However, if full rudder is not available due to the Rudder Pressure Reducer operation then this gets awkward and things could rapidly get out of hand, if they haven't already!

You need all available rudder to counteract the yaw in the spin. How to get it? The RPR causes the hydraulic pressure to the rudder to be reduced when the aircraft climbs above 1000 ft. It reduces rudder authority by about one third. But you need the full rudder pressure back in order to get more rudder deflection to aid spin recovery.

According to the FCOM, hydraulic pressure returns to normal when the aircraft descends through 700 ft agl (bit late to recover from ensuing dive at that point). The hydraulic pressure to the rudder also returns to normal if "B" hydraulic system depressurises - or whenever the N1 difference between the left and right engines exceeds 45% N1. The problem with the latter is that with one engine at closed throttle idle of 32 percent N1 - (or greater N1 at high altitude), you need at least 77 percent N1 on the other engine in order to achieve the required 45 percent N1 difference

.. Or maybe you could quickly close down one engine causing its N1 to rapidly wind down and now the 45 percent difference between the two engines will mean less thrust can be used on the live engine. If you don't opt for that choice, then depending on the direction of spin, that means you could have quite high thrust on one engine - which in turn could either aid or hinder spin recovery. That is because standard spin recovery normally involves closing both thrust levers.

So it becomes a bit of a problem. That leaves only the Hydraulic B System pumps off, to knock out the RPR and allow more rudder deflection, doesn't it? Or does it? Remember, the availibility of that extra third of rudder deflection could make all the difference to the outcome.
Any thoughts on the above? :ok:

cortilla
20th May 2009, 11:44
I really really hope you're not my TRE when it comes to my next OPC in August :eek:

Have a very long flight tommorrow so will discuss there and get back to you

Old Fella
20th May 2009, 11:52
Tee Emm. Are you contemplating looking for a Sim Instructors job? Sounds like the sort of scenario only a Sim Instructor could come up with.
How many pilots do you know who would use "memory recall" to remember to isolate a hydraulic system and wait for the system to depressurise or close one throttle (instead of both as you would want to in a spin) when the aircraft is spinning toward earth? My bet is they would use standard spin recovery technique and use whatever rudder deflection was available to them. Two thirds of normal rudder deflection is still quite authoritative. And really, who would be thinking of engine anti-icing in the midst of recovery from a spin?

Tee Emm
20th May 2009, 12:01
I really really hope you're not my TRE

Please don't mis-understand me. The subject just came up out of the blue over coffee after the sim session. Many years ago, a colleague inadvertently spun a C130A Hercules after a VMCA demo at 15,000 ft went wrong due a negative torque problem. He took standard spin recovery action during which time the Hercules spun through several revolutions. The recovery was successful albeit with significant airframe distortion. The USAF contacted his squadron commander to enquire on what recovery action the pilot took as they had lost a couple of C130's after the pilots failed to recover from inadvertant spins. So, large aircraft have previously got into serious trouble with spins and I guess a 737 is not immune if seriously mis-handled.

Old Fella
21st May 2009, 01:14
Tee Emm, the spinning of the C130A you refer to occurred on 23Sept1966 and I personally knew and flew with all but one of the operating crew. If recently told the story I hope the initials of the person who told you of the event are AS, otherwise he is relating an event of which he was not a part. The aircraft was A97-207 operated by 36 Squadron RAAF. The other pilot was BC, whom I believe passed away some good while ago. BTW, the aircraft was not all that significantly damaged. Plse check your PM for names.

MarkerInbound
21st May 2009, 03:58
Not sure if it's the same in the 737 but in the 727 the rudder load limiter is designed to fail to the high pressure mode with the loss of power. Thus, if you get the light with the flaps extended, the checklist leads you to pull the C/B to get full rudder authority. Would the same thing work in the 737?