Large screen portable GPS

[Sam Rutherford]

Hi,

Have searched unsuccessfully for the thread giving lots of information on Garmin 696 and it's competition.

Could anyone point me back to it?

Cheers, Sam.

[IO540]

There are TMK only 2 products on the market with that screen size: the G696, and the Avmap EKP IV.

I think the G696 is better but it also costs a lot more.

Avmap suffers from appalling support from its Italian manufacturer - as I found out trying to get some info.

[jez d]

New kid on the block, see FORESIGHT | AIRBOX (http://www.airboxaero.com/products/foresight/)

Due to launch at Aero Expo in June.

Can't vouch for its effectiveness as yet to see one in the flesh.

Regards, jez

[IO540]

Looking at its user manual, the Airbox is nothing anywhere near the other two. It is just a box which runs the Memory Map UK VFR charts, so it's basically useless for outside the UK, and for £1500 I would expect a whole lot more than that.

If you just want to run MM on a large screen, with minimal in-flight interactivity, you can pick up a new or used Motion LS800 on Ebay, which (being windoze) will run anything and everything.

[jxc]

I have just bought a 2nd hand Avmap emailed Italy last night to re-register it in my name and Got a response this morning saying it has been done, So at the moment I cant complain

Th Avbox does seem to be very overpriced for what it does If you want to run MM you could look at buying a HTC x7510 with 5" touchscreen very readable in sunlight and built in GPS and phone !

I wanted a 695 but couldn't justify 2K on it at the moment


Cheers

[DBo]

We've had good support for our Avmap - No complaints.

Dave

[Pilotdom]

I have heard MemoryMap are looking at this..... Buy ThinkNavi T7 (http://www.totalpda.co.uk/ThinkNavi/ThinkNavi-T7.7647.html?osCsid=6a09651362616d85ae90456c505ca7ce) 7" touch screen and offering it with there charts. Although it is only useful inside the UK I think it will be a good bit of kit. FlyMap are also releasing it this year, it was on demo at Freidrichshafen earlier in the year. Flymap (http://www.flymap.net/) and click on news.

[IO540]

We've had good support for our Avmap - No complaints.

From who?

I hope they changed; they had (and still have, at their price) a winning product. Some UK retailers are pretty good anyway and will do their very best, but with the Italian end being what it was IME, they were a bit limited. When I looked into it, I could not even find out how to update the database...

[007helicopter]

Sam - I do not know about competitors to the 695 but a useful thread on Rotorheads about the 695 here
http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/353735-garmin-695-696-a.html

Plus I have one and am very pleased with it if you want to ask any questions specifically I will try to help

[Sam Rutherford]

I am particularly looking for a competitor which has the approach plates loaded.

There was a whole thread on this, a month or so ago?

I seem to remember one of the units was called Jaguar, or Puma or something animal-like?! :hmm:

Cheers, Sam.

[Ultranomad]

Sam, if you want the approach plates, just buy a decent touchscreen tablet PC and load Jeppview/Flitedeck on it. Peter already mentioned Motion LS800, I'd vote for Lenovo X61 or Fujitsu P1610/P1620 depending on the size you want, and I'm sure there are other decent ones. This way, you can get not only a MM GPS, but the entire electronic flight bag of any complexity, plus a stowable keyboard.
And the ability of Jeppesen to superimpose approach plates on top of the nav chart is a really nice feature.

[lordhedges]

I've seen the Airbox system first hand and it is certainly nothing like Memory Map. Sure it can display CAA charts however you can tell the programmers have kept pilots in mind when designing the menus and data input screens which easily allow for use in a cramped cockpit environment.

The version of software I saw had a full European airspace database on it with visual airspace warnings, terrain ahead, extended runway centre lines and whole bunch of features not available on MM.

I've also been informed that they will have full European charting for the June launch with weather and NOTAM features added later.

[IO540]

I am particularly looking for a competitor which has the approach plates loaded.For Europe, there is only one way of getting electronic approach plates which are georeferenced i.e. show the aircraft position on the plate: Jeppview.

The price depends on the desired coverage and is pretty steep. It is aimed at corporate and upwards.

JV will run on any Windoze machine, and for in-flight use you want a tablet computer running the XP Tablet O/S.

If you are skint / not fussy about presentation then you can download most European plates free from the Eurocontrol EAD site. Most of these are a bit crap though - most seem to have been drafted deliberately to not compete with Jeppesen ;) But they are clearly usable.

As Anton says, once you have a tablet running windoze, the world is your oyster as regards software. You can run Memory Map for the UK CAA charts (three to cover the UK; cost has recently dropped to about £20 each). Oziexplorer can run a huge range of maps of all kinds (including plenty of "unofficially sourced" VFR aviation charts) taking advantage of the vast underground map distribution network (on P2P) which is driven by the tight copyright restrictions on all maps in Europe. And you can do stuff like internet / weather / email using a satellite phone.

I am suprised Garmin keep their units closed-architecture because the 696, with its decent size screen, could do quite a lot.

[Ultranomad]

By the way, speaking of various electronic VFR charts, Fugawi (http://www.fugawi.com) (as in "where the fugawi?") has albums of American TPCs (tactical pilotage charts) for Europe (with adjacent bits of Asia), Africa (north of 4°N and south of 8°N), Mexico, Central America, Afghanistan+Pakistan, China (eastern and western halves), India, Nepal and Korea. These are 1:500000 aeronautical charts in BSB format - that is, loadable into FliteMap and many other navigation programs; a standalone viewer is included, too. One can either subscribe for online access or buy a disk ($100 per album). They may be somewhat outdated (as far as I understand, most are from 1990s) but for some countries (e.g. Turkey) this is just about the only way to get aeronautical charts, and the price is quite reasonable.
The same charts in paper format can be ordered from various outlets for $8-$10 a sheet.

[Fuji Abound]

The price depends on the desired coverage and is pretty steep. It is aimed at corporate and upwards.

Plates (approach and airport taxiways) are part of the service and included if elected as part of both the Garmin and Avidyne glass packages.

Both use the Jepp plates and in Avidyne's case the plate in isolation can be displayed on the MDF showing the aircraft's position on the plate in real time. Makes it very easy to fly almost any procedure :). The vertical profile can also be displayed but the aircraft is only positioned on the plate horizontally although obviously the step downs are shown on the plate. The service is updated monthly and well worth having.

[IO540]

Fuji - Jeppview/Flitedeck is of the order of £2000 for all of Europe, isn't it? (what Jepp call "Europe" is just the old "west of the Iron Curtain" bit and the rest is priced extra).

It's peanuts for some, silly-price for others.

I have used this product airborne and while it is super slick for a PNF pilot-passenger to monitor how badly the PF is doing ;) I don't know how good it is for the single pilot IFR scenario. Obviously every bit of situational awareness helps but if flying say an ILS, will you fly it on the HSI, or perhaps the FD, or by looking at the FliteDeck moving map? Doing the last option is likely to get you killed because the display scaling is far too coarse when approaching the runway.

By the way, speaking of various electronic VFR charts, Fugawi (http://www.fugawi.com/) (as in "where the fugawi?") has albums of American TPCs (tactical pilotage charts) for Europe (with adjacent bits of Asia), Africa (north of 4°N and south of 8°N), Mexico, Central America, Afghanistan+Pakistan, China (eastern and western halves), India, Nepal and Korea. These are 1:500000 aeronautical charts in BSB format - that is, loadable into FliteMapIndeed, beyond Croatia/Italy, the obsolete ONC/TPC charts are the only option, but did you really mean running under Jepp FliteMap? FM was discontinued by Jepp c. 2005, though it still functions. It is Flitestar but with an NMEA GPS input so you get a GPS moving map over your planned route. Can you really load ONC/TPC charts into FM? I see there are various 3rd party chart options but never found anything that runs there, other than Jepp's "VFR/GPS Raster Charts" which are £200 for Europe (padded out with the long obsolete ONC ones for Greece).

I bought some ONC charts from a U.S. online map shop and they run under Oziexplorer straight off.

[Ultranomad]

Peter, that's right, it's officially Flitestar now, though in fact Flitestar and Flitemap had always been one and the same software anyway, with the right customer code activating the extra functionality and changing the name on the splash screen to "Flitemap".
Unfortunately, I haven't bought these TPCs/ONCs yet, so can't verify whether they are really loadable, but if you do, would you try them in FS and let us all know?

Jeppview prices are in fact somewhat lower - e.g. SkywaysDirect quotes £1350 for an annual subscription to Jeppview IFR or £314 for VFR (for all of Europe). For VFR-only flying that would be cheaper than an equivalent set of paper maps. For IFR, it's a bit steep, but there's always P2P ;-)

Add a Xerox solid ink colour printer for a complete solution...

[Fuji Abound]

I don't know how good it is for the single pilot IFR scenario. Obviously every bit of situational awareness helps but if flying say an ILS, will you fly it on the HSI, or perhaps the FD, or by looking at the FliteDeck moving map?


I think it is easier to use than you might imagine.

Flying the ILS segement of an approach clearly you would ignore the PDF and fly the ILS using the command bars on the PDF and or would monitor the command bars if flying a coupled approach.

For non precision approaches I suspect most people would be flying coupled approaches using the GPS for primary guidance these days. I think the combination of the autopilot in and the plate on the PDF provides a superb means of monitoring your progress through the procedure including the descent segements where the plate provides the visual clues for intiating the step downs and adjusting the VS rate to capture the correct gradient.

Take the autopilot out or use just the heading bug and flying a radial such as the cross country approach into Lydd and it becomes a delight with the plate running on the MDF.

I think it is a great bit of kit for the "serious" IFR commuter, not that I make any claim to be such. Of course, and as always, staying ahead of the aircraft is the key. Personally I think both Avidyne and Garmin could have produced a more slick user interface. As it is I think you do well to ensure the correct plates are pulled up well before you start the procedure and both the MDF and PDF are correctly configured. I guess there are no surprises there but you would have to be pretty comfortable with the systems to work the PDF and MDF on the fly single pilot in a procedure with which you were not familiar.

[jonburf]

This may sound like a stupid suggestion.
could you not go online and print off approach tiles and store them on your kneeboard and then get a low cost gps like a garmin 196 for example. It does everything the same minus the colour screen and approach tiles. You could get a used one off ebay for £200, and have £1600 of lovely avgas to burn. I know what i'd rather.

I worry with the GPS doing and storing everything for you. Does it make the planning stage much easier? well yes is does, but is that a good thing? If it stopped working and it had your only copy of the approach tile on it, what would you do?
But thats just my thought.
jon

[IO540]

Correct; I would not fly with just one electronic device holding the approach plates etc.

There are certified EFB products but AFAIK all are dual so if one packs up the other pilot has a working one.

Personally, I print off plates for dep dest and alt, and enroute chart sections. This is not a big deal; one prints them off 2-up double sided i.e. 4 pages per A4 sheet of paper.

The unavoidable situation is if you have to do an airborne diversion to somewhere unplanned, and then you have just the the electronic representation of the approach plate. If that failed, your only option would be a radar letdown to a VFR landing (an SRA, in effect) or an ILS. For a radar vectored ILS you just need the runway heading and the ILS frequency. How likely is this? Not that likely. But IMHO if you always flew with everything hanging on a single electronic device you will sooner or later get caught.

One cannot backup everything but one can guard against failures of two independent systems.

The thing which an electronic product like Jeppview does for you is that you don't have to print off plates for everything imaginable.

[rocco16]

PocketFMS has a facility to include geo referenced charts such as approach plates from the AIP. It does take a bit of work on each one however. I currently run it on a Mio but I am trying Asus Eeee pC 901.